Remembering Bob James

Editor’s note: W. Robert (Bob) James, 77, died July 19. In the real estate business in Oak Park for many years, James played a pivotal role in the fair housing effort in Oak Park during the late 1960s and ’70s. “I’ve gone through one of the greatest social revolutions,” he told a Wednesday Journal reporter recently. “I was able to participate in that.” In 1999, James shared his
memories with Ken Trainor.

Roots run deep in Oak Park for Bob James, head of W.R. James, Realtors. The company has its origins in his grandfather’s stucco and plastering business. John E. James came to Oak Park in 1896 and built the home at 832 S. Scoville Ave. that may have been the inspiration for the Gunderson subdivision directly east.

Bob’s father, Walter R. Sr., grew up there. They even kept a cow in the family barn in back. W.R. Sr. would leave it in Longfellow Park while he was at school and lead it back home afterward. He worked for his father as a plasterer until he got back from “The Great War” (World War I) and decided that maybe selling real estate was easier than building on it. In 1919 he started the firm that bore his name. Originally located at Gunderson and Garfield (where John James had built a shack for the plastering business), the construction of the Eisenhower Expressway forced them to move in 1956 to 310 Madison St. There it remained until 1990, when it moved to 187 S. Oak Park Ave. [Bob James shut the business in 2000 because of health problems, but joined buddy John Sprafka shortly after at Sprafka Realtors.]

Bob James graduated from Hawthorne Elementary and Oak Park and River Forest High School, served in World War II, earned a degree at Yale, served again in the Korean War and worked for IBM for several years before joining his father’s firm in 1956. He was elected president of the Oak Park Board of Realtors in 1972-73 and again 1993-95.

James was the first Realtor in the state of Illinois to be appointed a member of the Human Relations Commission. He also served on the Citizens Advisory Council to OPRF High School, as president of the Madison Street Business Association and two terms on the Park District board. In 1989, he was named Realtor of the Year by the Board of Realtors. His father was named Realtor of the Year in 1984.

We conducted our interview as James drove around the town where he has sold houses for the past 43 years.

Q: Why did you join your dad’s firm after working for IBM?

A: I felt that working for someone else, I wasn’t going to get anywhere. I went for about a year figuring out what was the best way, and I found out it was sitting right in my backyard. And it’s always been a lot of fun.

Q: What do you like about selling real estate?

A: I’m there at one of the prime times. This is one of the joys of life. You watch when they buy a house, it’s marvelous. I’ve helped a lot of families get homes, and it’s important.

Q: How has the business changed over the years?

A: It’s a pain now. Housing inspectors, lawyers”you’ve got a job all done and then some housing inspector comes along with a minute thing that scares the hell out of the people because he’s trying to protect his rear end from getting sued. The furnace is 14 years old? So what? Some of them last 30 or 40 years. But they tell [the buyers] you have to replace it in five years. Now they have to renegotiate the contract. It’s not much fun.

Q: Things must have been even more complicated during the fair housing movement in the 1960s and 1970s. What was it like trying to adjust to social change as a Realtor?

A: I didn’t feel that the law [fair housing ordinance] was going to do much good. In fact, I thought they had to make a law to make a law to make a law. But I still felt, having served twice in the service, that anybody who was good enough to let their red blood flow and had the green cash to pay for the property should live where they want.

That [attitude] wasn’t shared by too many. I was president of the Board of Realtors in 1972-73. I was the first Realtor appointed to the Human Relations Commission in the state of Illinois. As a result, I went around and gave lectures here and there to various real estate boards.

It was very difficult. They tried to kill the messenger each time because they weren’t particularly impressed with my message. I had salesmen whose tires were slashed. At the same time [fair housing advocates] would march on people like Baird & Warner. They’d have a nice silent march, then all of a sudden the TV cameras would come and tell them to holler and make all kinds of noise, so it would look like heck for TV. It was ridiculous.

I didn’t think the marches were accomplishing much. The thing in a nutshell is the Realtors weren’t doing anything. At that time, I thought if they were any sort of Christian, they ought to understand that anybody ought to be able to buy wherever they want to buy.

I was the first one under an M [minority] listing, and I was able to sell it to the first minority, which was Henry and Sherlynn Reid. [Sherlynn Reid went on to become Oak Park’s director of community relations.] Henry one time”we were negotiating back and forth on the contract”had to sleep at our house. Sherlynn was in Detroit at the time. That was the first [minority] direct buy without a front.

Q: Were you aware when African Americans were buying through fronts?

A: That’s how Dr. [Percy] Julian got in, “straw buyer” as they called it. There were a lot of people, I’ll tell you, working for open housing. [Police] Chief Nestor, as soon as he heard what I’d done, went up and down blocks, talked to everyone to maintain regularity. He didn’t want anything to happen and the people accepted it.

[In the early 1970s] the Human Relations Commission was going to put in the [for sale] sign ban. To me, it’s still unconstitutional. It’s illegal. But still it’s the best thing that ever happened because these clowns who claim to be experts in marketing”the Realtors”had the constitutional right to put up eight signs on a block. They wouldn’t cooperate by rotating.

Q: So at least for a while the Realtors were their own worst enemy?

A: Absolutely. They dreaded the sign ban. In the meantime, Kris Ronnow was appointed the head of the Human Relations Commission. He came around and started to harass [the Realtors]. I said, “You’ve got a bunch of Realtors here who have been in business for 40 to 50 years. Try working with them rather than against them.”

All of a sudden we created something here that was of a mutual agreement. Ronnow was invited to all the Oak Park Board of Realtors meetings. Instead of other towns where agencies [gauge] their success on how many suits they can bring against Realtors, Ronnow turned around and figured out how we can solve problems together. He would say, “This is what my testers came up with.” And we discussed it. We started to understand his viewpoint and he tried to understand our viewpoint. And as a result, a nicer relationship. Really, he did a job and a half. He was essential.

At the same time Bobbie Raymond came in [and started the Oak Park Housing Center]. Originally [people thought] the Housing Center was trying to bring blacks into town. She was trying to disperse them, but this message wasn’t getting out. After I left the presidency, [the Board of Realtors] started to work closer with her. But at the time, I couldn’t come out and say the Oak Park Board of Realtors supports the Housing Center because of that initial [misconception].

A couple of us, Al Rossell [Jack Carpenter Realty], myself, tried to get the board to put out some money to advertise the town. Did they do it? Hell, no. They wouldn’t give peanuts. Bobbie Raymond and her crew got the finances and advertised and told everybody about the town and attracted good people who believed in integration, who came in here and bought homes.

Q: Were you ever pessimistic about Oak Park’s chances as the West Side was rapidly resegregating? Were you scared Oak Park would suffer white flight?

A: You always have that worry, no matter what. I don’t think you can ever lose that worry. This is why we went out and supported the school [referendum]. Tomorrow, there’s a guy in Boston that may be sitting around using his computer, and he looks all around the Chicago area. He can pick out all the statistics about Oak Park. If we don’t have the school facilities, as well as the grades, he’s not going to pick us. That’s going to lower the values. The concept is we’ve got to compete against the rest of the country.

Marie Reichenbach, Al Rossell and I felt that the first area to go would be the commercial areas, so we worked on Madison Street. When we started, there were over 50 vacancies. We got some people interested [and] we ended up in a couple of years with 10 or 12 vacancies.

We went out and got limited partners. We bought some of this stuff up and down Lyman Avenue and fixed them up, rented them out. Whenever these people would want to run, we’d buy. We had hopes to put a big building up there, but due to the trouble they gave Stankus, we couldn’t get them off ground one.

The infamous Stankus Hole is a scar on the history of downtown development. Did it all work out for the best? Is 100 Forest Place better than what Stankus would have put up?

No. Right now, Stankus’ buildings, 221 Kenilworth as well as the townhouses, are highly in demand. My feeling is he built a quality building, and that we would have kept our downtown. They ended up with a high-rise, but six or eight years later, and chased away some of the good merchants [in the meantime]. That’s where our downtown went to hell and back. Wouldn’t you like good units with good quality people going down into these shops? It was a natural and they blew it.

Q: Are you surprised by how well things seem to be going in Oak Park in spite of that?

A: I’m absolutely delighted that especially the Gundersons have come back [in vogue] with their natural oak. Your Victorians are coming back. A lot of people want their ranches and tri-level; well, let them go elsewhere. They try telling me about high taxes, and I say, “High taxes are deductible. How about the extra hour you’ve got commuting out west? Is that deductible?” People in Oak Park can spend that time with their family. They can do things.

Q: What role should Realtors play in keeping Oak Park a stable, diverse community?

A: We’re still considered off our nut. People still think that our board is crazy to go along and cooperate and work with people and work for the citizens and work for the town. I’m talking about certain sections here in Chicago. They’d rather fight the neighborhood groups than work with them. We’ve done just the opposite and I think that has done a tremendous job.

There’s always individuals. Even recently, I had a situation where somebody became very objectionable, a buyer. He started to make derogatory remarks. I said, “You just don’t want Oak Park. I’m sorry.” This is the ’90s, almost the year 2000.

Editor’s note: W. Robert (Bob) James, 77, died July 19. In the real estate business in Oak Park for many years, James played a pivotal role in the fair housing effort in Oak Park during the late 1960s and ’70s. “I’ve gone through one of the greatest social
revolutions,” he told a Wednesday Journal reporter recently. “I was able to participate
in that.” In 1999, James shared his
memories with Ken Trainor.

By KEN TRAINOR

oots run deep in Oak Park for Bob James, head of W.R. James, Realtors. The company has its origins in his grandfather’s stucco and plastering business. John E. James came to Oak Park in 1896 and built the home at 832 S. Scoville Ave. that may have been the inspiration for the Gunderson subdivision directly east.

Bob’s father, Walter R. Sr., grew up there. They even kept a cow in the family barn in back. W.R. Sr. would leave it in Longfellow Park while he was at school and lead it back home afterward. He worked for his father as a plasterer until he got back from “The Great War” (World War I) and decided that maybe selling real estate was easier than building on it. In 1919 he started the firm that bore his name. Originally located at Gunderson and Garfield (where John James had built a shack for the plastering business), the construction of the Eisenhower Expressway forced them to move in 1956 to 310 Madison St. There it remained until 1990, when it moved to 187 S. Oak Park Ave. [Bob James shut the business in 2000 because of health problems, but joined buddy John Sprafka shortly after at Sprafka Realtors.]

Bob James graduated from Hawthorne Elementary and Oak Park and River Forest High School, served in World War II, earned a degree at Yale, served again in the Korean War and worked for IBM for several years before joining his father’s firm in 1956. He was elected president of the Oak Park Board of Realtors in 1972-73 and again 1993-95.

James was the first Realtor in the state of Illinois to be appointed a member of the Human Relations Commission. He also served on the Citizens Advisory Council to OPRF High School, as president of the Madison Street Business Association and two terms on the Park District board. In 1989, he was named Realtor of the Year by the Board of Realtors. His father was named Realtor of the Year in 1984.

We conducted our interview as James drove around the town where he has sold houses for the past 43 years.

Q: Why did you join your dad’s firm after working for IBM?

A: I felt that working for someone else, I wasn’t going to get anywhere. I went for about a year figuring out what was the best way, and I found out it was sitting right in my backyard. And it’s always been a lot of fun.

Q: What do you like about selling real estate?

A: I’m there at one of the prime times. This is one of the joys of life. You watch when they buy a house, it’s marvelous. I’ve helped a lot of families get homes, and it’s important.

Q: How has the business changed over the years?

A: It’s a pain now. Housing inspectors, lawyers”you’ve got a job all done and then some housing inspector comes along with a minute thing that scares the hell out of the people because he’s trying to protect his rear end from getting sued. The furnace is 14 years old? So what? Some of them last 30 or 40 years. But they tell [the buyers] you have to replace it in five years. Now they have to renegotiate the contract. It’s not much fun.

Q: Things must have been even more complicated during the fair housing movement in the 1960s and 1970s. What was it like trying to adjust to social change as a Realtor?

A: I didn’t feel that the law [fair housing ordinance] was going to do much good. In fact, I thought they had to make a law to make a law to make a law. But I still felt, having served twice in the service, that anybody who was good enough to let their red blood flow and had the green cash to pay for the property should live where they want.

That [attitude] wasn’t shared by too many. I was president of the Board of Realtors in 1972-73. I was the first Realtor appointed to the Human Relations Commission in the state of Illinois. As a result, I went around and gave lectures here and there to various real estate boards.

It was very difficult. They tried to kill the messenger each time because they weren’t particularly impressed with my message. I had salesmen whose tires were slashed. At the same time [fair housing advocates] would march on people like Baird & Warner. They’d have a nice silent march, then all of a sudden the TV cameras would come and tell them to holler and make all kinds of noise, so it would look like heck for TV. It was ridiculous.

I didn’t think the marches were accomplishing much. The thing in a nutshell is the Realtors weren’t doing anything. At that time, I thought if they were any sort of Christian, they ought to understand that anybody ought to be able to buy wherever they want to buy.

I was the first one under an M [minority] listing, and I was able to sell it to the first minority, which was Henry and Sherlynn Reid. [Sherlynn Reid went on to become Oak Park’s director of community relations.] Henry one time”we were negotiating back and forth on the contract”had to sleep at our house. Sherlynn was in Detroit at the time. That was the first [minority] direct buy without a front.

Q: Were you aware when African Americans were buying through fronts?

A: That’s how Dr. [Percy] Julian got in, “straw buyer” as they called it. There were a lot of people, I’ll tell you, working for open housing. [Police] Chief Nestor, as soon as he heard what I’d done, went up and down blocks, talked to everyone to maintain regularity. He didn’t want anything to happen and the people accepted it.

[In the early 1970s] the Human Relations Commission was going to put in the [for sale] sign ban. To me, it’s still unconstitutional. It’s illegal. But still it’s the best thing that ever happened because these clowns who claim to be experts in marketing”the Realtors”had the constitutional right to put up eight signs on a block. They wouldn’t cooperate by rotating.

Q: So at least for a while the Realtors were their own worst enemy?

A: Absolutely. They dreaded the sign ban. In the meantime, Kris Ronnow was appointed the head of the Human Relations Commission. He came around and started to harass [the Realtors]. I said, “You’ve got a bunch of Realtors here who have been in business for 40 to 50 years. Try working with them rather than against them.”

All of a sudden we created something here that was of a mutual agreement. Ronnow was invited to all the Oak Park Board of Realtors meetings. Instead of other towns where agencies [gauge] their success on how many suits they can bring against Realtors, Ronnow turned around and figured out how we can solve problems together. He would say, “This is what my testers came up with.” And we discussed it. We started to understand his viewpoint and he tried to understand our viewpoint. And as a result, a nicer relationship. Really, he did a job and a half. He was essential.

At the same time Bobbie Raymond came in [and started the Oak Park Housing Center]. Originally [people thought] the Housing Center was trying to bring blacks into town. She was trying to disperse them, but this message wasn’t getting out. After I left the presidency, [the Board of Realtors] started to work closer with her. But at the time, I couldn’t come out and say the Oak Park Board of Realtors supports the Housing Center because of that initial [misconception].

A couple of us, Al Rossell [Jack Carpenter Realty], myself, tried to get the board to put out some money to advertise the town. Did they do it? Hell, no. They wouldn’t give peanuts. Bobbie Raymond and her crew got the finances and advertised and told everybody about the town and attracted good people who believed in integration, who came in here and bought homes.

Q: Were you ever pessimistic about Oak Park’s chances as the West Side was rapidly resegregating? Were you scared Oak Park would suffer white flight?

A: You always have that worry, no matter what. I don’t think you can ever lose that worry. This is why we went out and supported the school [referendum]. Tomorrow, there’s a guy in Boston that may be sitting around using his computer, and he looks all around the Chicago area. He can pick out all the statistics about Oak Park. If we don’t have the school facilities, as well as the grades, he’s not going to pick us. That’s going to lower the values. The concept is we’ve got to compete against the rest of the country.

Marie Reichenbach, Al Rossell and I felt that the first area to go would be the commercial areas, so we worked on Madison Street. When we started, there were over 50 vacancies. We got some people interested [and] we ended up in a couple of years with 10 or 12 vacancies.

We went out and got limited partners. We bought some of this stuff up and down Lyman Avenue and fixed them up, rented them out. Whenever these people would want to run, we’d buy. We had hopes to put a big building up there, but due to the trouble they gave Stankus, we couldn’t get them off ground one.

The infamous Stankus Hole is a scar on the history of downtown development. Did it all work out for the best? Is 100 Forest Place better than what Stankus would have put up?

No. Right now, Stankus’ buildings, 221 Kenilworth as well as the townhouses, are highly in demand. My feeling is he built a quality building, and that we would have kept our downtown. They ended up with a high-rise, but six or eight years later, and chased away some of the good merchants [in the meantime]. That’s where our downtown went to hell and back. Wouldn’t you like good units with good quality people going down into these shops? It was a natural and they blew it.

Q: Are you surprised by how well things seem to be going in Oak Park in spite of that?

A: I’m absolutely delighted that especially the Gundersons have come back [in vogue] with their natural oak. Your Victorians are coming back. A lot of people want their ranches and tri-level; well, let them go elsewhere. They try telling me about high taxes, and I say, “High taxes are deductible. How about the extra hour you’ve got commuting out west? Is that deductible?” People in Oak Park can spend that time with their family. They can do things.

Q: What role should Realtors play in keeping Oak Park a stable, diverse community?

A: We’re still considered off our nut. People still think that our board is crazy to go along and cooperate and work with people and work for the citizens and work for the town. I’m talking about certain sections here in Chicago. They’d rather fight the neighborhood groups than work with them. We’ve done just the opposite and I think that has done a tremendous job.

There’s always individuals. Even recently, I had a situation where somebody became very objectionable, a buyer. He started to make derogatory remarks. I said, “You just don’t want Oak Park. I’m sorry.” This is the ’90s, almost the year 2000.

Editor’s note: W. Robert (Bob) James, 77, died July 19. In the real estate business in Oak Park for many years, James played a pivotal role in the fair housing effort in Oak Park during the late 1960s and ’70s. “I’ve gone through one of the greatest social
revolutions,” he told a Wednesday Journal reporter recently. “I was able to participate
in that.” In 1999, James shared his
memories with Ken Trainor.

By KEN TRAINOR

oots run deep in Oak Park for Bob James, head of W.R. James, Realtors. The company has its origins in his grandfather’s stucco and plastering business. John E. James came to Oak Park in 1896 and built the home at 832 S. Scoville Ave. that may have been the inspiration for the Gunderson subdivision directly east.

Bob’s father, Walter R. Sr., grew up there. They even kept a cow in the family barn in back. W.R. Sr. would leave it in Longfellow Park while he was at school and lead it back home afterward. He worked for his father as a plasterer until he got back from “The Great War” (World War I) and decided that maybe selling real estate was easier than building on it. In 1919 he started the firm that bore his name. Originally located at Gunderson and Garfield (where John James had built a shack for the plastering business), the construction of the Eisenhower Expressway forced them to move in 1956 to 310 Madison St. There it remained until 1990, when it moved to 187 S. Oak Park Ave. [Bob James shut the business in 2000 because of health problems, but joined buddy John Sprafka shortly after at Sprafka Realtors.]

Bob James graduated from Hawthorne Elementary and Oak Park and River Forest High School, served in World War II, earned a degree at Yale, served again in the Korean War and worked for IBM for several years before joining his father’s firm in 1956. He was elected president of the Oak Park Board of Realtors in 1972-73 and again 1993-95.

James was the first Realtor in the state of Illinois to be appointed a member of the Human Relations Commission. He also served on the Citizens Advisory Council to OPRF High School, as president of the Madison Street Business Association and two terms on the Park District board. In 1989, he was named Realtor of the Year by the Board of Realtors. His father was named Realtor of the Year in 1984.

We conducted our interview as James drove around the town where he has sold houses for the past 43 years.

Q: Why did you join your dad’s firm after working for IBM?

A: I felt that working for someone else, I wasn’t going to get anywhere. I went for about a year figuring out what was the best way, and I found out it was sitting right in my backyard. And it’s always been a lot of fun.

Q: What do you like about selling real estate?

A: I’m there at one of the prime times. This is one of the joys of life. You watch when they buy a house, it’s marvelous. I’ve helped a lot of families get homes, and it’s important.

Q: How has the business changed over the years?

A: It’s a pain now. Housing inspectors, lawyers”you’ve got a job all done and then some housing inspector comes along with a minute thing that scares the hell out of the people because he’s trying to protect his rear end from getting sued. The furnace is 14 years old? So what? Some of them last 30 or 40 years. But they tell [the buyers] you have to replace it in five years. Now they have to renegotiate the contract. It’s not much fun.

Q: Things must have been even more complicated during the fair housing movement in the 1960s and 1970s. What was it like trying to adjust to social change as a Realtor?

A: I didn’t feel that the law [fair housing ordinance] was going to do much good. In fact, I thought they had to make a law to make a law to make a law. But I still felt, having served twice in the service, that anybody who was good enough to let their red blood flow and had the green cash to pay for the property should live where they want.

That [attitude] wasn’t shared by too many. I was president of the Board of Realtors in 1972-73. I was the first Realtor appointed to the Human Relations Commission in the state of Illinois. As a result, I went around and gave lectures here and there to various real estate boards.

It was very difficult. They tried to kill the messenger each time because they weren’t particularly impressed with my message. I had salesmen whose tires were slashed. At the same time [fair housing advocates] would march on people like Baird & Warner. They’d have a nice silent march, then all of a sudden the TV cameras would come and tell them to holler and make all kinds of noise, so it would look like heck for TV. It was ridiculous.

I didn’t think the marches were accomplishing much. The thing in a nutshell is the Realtors weren’t doing anything. At that time, I thought if they were any sort of Christian, they ought to understand that anybody ought to be able to buy wherever they want to buy.

I was the first one under an M [minority] listing, and I was able to sell it to the first minority, which was Henry and Sherlynn Reid. [Sherlynn Reid went on to become Oak Park’s director of community relations.] Henry one time”we were negotiating back and forth on the contract”had to sleep at our house. Sherlynn was in Detroit at the time. That was the first [minority] direct buy without a front.

Q: Were you aware when African Americans were buying through fronts?

A: That’s how Dr. [Percy] Julian got in, “straw buyer” as they called it. There were a lot of people, I’ll tell you, working for open housing. [Police] Chief Nestor, as soon as he heard what I’d done, went up and down blocks, talked to everyone to maintain regularity. He didn’t want anything to happen and the people accepted it.

[In the early 1970s] the Human Relations Commission was going to put in the [for sale] sign ban. To me, it’s still unconstitutional. It’s illegal. But still it’s the best thing that ever happened because these clowns who claim to be experts in marketing”the Realtors”had the constitutional right to put up eight signs on a block. They wouldn’t cooperate by rotating.

Q: So at least for a while the Realtors were their own worst enemy?

A: Absolutely. They dreaded the sign ban. In the meantime, Kris Ronnow was appointed the head of the Human Relations Commission. He came around and started to harass [the Realtors]. I said, “You’ve got a bunch of Realtors here who have been in business for 40 to 50 years. Try working with them rather than against them.”

All of a sudden we created something here that was of a mutual agreement. Ronnow was invited to all the Oak Park Board of Realtors meetings. Instead of other towns where agencies [gauge] their success on how many suits they can bring against Realtors, Ronnow turned around and figured out how we can solve problems together. He would say, “This is what my testers came up with.” And we discussed it. We started to understand his viewpoint and he tried to understand our viewpoint. And as a result, a nicer relationship. Really, he did a job and a half. He was essential.

At the same time Bobbie Raymond came in [and started the Oak Park Housing Center]. Originally [people thought] the Housing Center was trying to bring blacks into town. She was trying to disperse them, but this message wasn’t getting out. After I left the presidency, [the Board of Realtors] started to work closer with her. But at the time, I couldn’t come out and say the Oak Park Board of Realtors supports the Housing Center because of that initial [misconception].

A couple of us, Al Rossell [Jack Carpenter Realty], myself, tried to get the board to put out some money to advertise the town. Did they do it? Hell, no. They wouldn’t give peanuts. Bobbie Raymond and her crew got the finances and advertised and told everybody about the town and attracted good people who believed in integration, who came in here and bought homes.

Q: Were you ever pessimistic about Oak Park’s chances as the West Side was rapidly resegregating? Were you scared Oak Park would suffer white flight?

A: You always have that worry, no matter what. I don’t think you can ever lose that worry. This is why we went out and supported the school [referendum]. Tomorrow, there’s a guy in Boston that may be sitting around using his computer, and he looks all around the Chicago area. He can pick out all the statistics about Oak Park. If we don’t have the school facilities, as well as the grades, he’s not going to pick us. That’s going to lower the values. The concept is we’ve got to compete against the rest of the country.

Marie Reichenbach, Al Rossell and I felt that the first area to go would be the commercial areas, so we worked on Madison Street. When we started, there were over 50 vacancies. We got some people interested [and] we ended up in a couple of years with 10 or 12 vacancies.

We went out and got limited partners. We bought some of this stuff up and down Lyman Avenue and fixed them up, rented them out. Whenever these people would want to run, we’d buy. We had hopes to put a big building up there, but due to the trouble they gave Stankus, we couldn’t get them off ground one.

The infamous Stankus Hole is a scar on the history of downtown development. Did it all work out for the best? Is 100 Forest Place better than what Stankus would have put up?

No. Right now, Stankus’ buildings, 221 Kenilworth as well as the townhouses, are highly in demand. My feeling is he built a quality building, and that we would have kept our downtown. They ended up with a high-rise, but six or eight years later, and chased away some of the good merchants [in the meantime]. That’s where our downtown went to hell and back. Wouldn’t you like good units with good quality people going down into these shops? It was a natural and they blew it.

Q: Are you surprised by how well things seem to be going in Oak Park in spite of that?

A: I’m absolutely delighted that especially the Gundersons have come back [in vogue] with their natural oak. Your Victorians are coming back. A lot of people want their ranches and tri-level; well, let them go elsewhere. They try telling me about high taxes, and I say, “High taxes are deductible. How about the extra hour you’ve got commuting out west? Is that deductible?” People in Oak Park can spend that time with their family. They can do things.

Q: What role should Realtors play in keeping Oak Park a stable, diverse community?

A: We’re still considered off our nut. People still think that our board is crazy to go along and cooperate and work with people and work for the citizens and work for the town. I’m talking about certain sections here in Chicago. They’d rather fight the neighborhood groups than work with them. We’ve done just the opposite and I think that has done a tremendous job.

There’s always individuals. Even recently, I had a situation where somebody became very objectionable, a buyer. He started to make derogatory remarks. I said, “You just don’t want Oak Park. I’m sorry.” This is the ’90s, almost the year 2000.