Conservatives welcome in Oak Park

OPRFDad  

Posted: August 15th, 2012 11:45 AM

Unofrtunately, I agree, the Howells are brave. Mr. Howell, keep up the good work. The fact that your signs result in the type of reaction they do, both from Carol and the brats strolling by, suggests to me that you are on to something. Much needs to change about Oak Park. Let's start with openness to dissenting opinions, and go from there.

NOPE 2012 from Oak Park  

Posted: August 15th, 2012 9:21 AM

Carol, please prove any "actual, quantifiable damage to your neighbors...". Has any of Mr Howell's neighbors placed their house for sale since the sign went up, & at what price? What was the specific impact to the property value? .....well, we're waiting!! Carol, your feelings are hurt by a sign? You are how old? Grow up, sweetheart.

Carol from Oak Park  

Posted: August 15th, 2012 9:04 AM

Just by way of example, how do you suppose that your gigantic, obnoxious signs have affected your neighbors' property values? What sane person would want to buy a house next door to yours? You are causing not just hurt feelings and outrage, but actual, quantifiable damage to your neighbors, and you obviously couldn't care less. Which makes it all the more amazing that you demand that everyone else care about your feelings.

Carol from Oak Park  

Posted: August 15th, 2012 9:02 AM

Ok, I think you are missing the point, which is that your Oak Park neighbors appear to find your giant signs just as obnoxious, bullying and harrassing as you find the obscenities. You seem awfully tender about your own feelings, while showing a remarkable lack of concern about your neighbors. It seems as though you believe that you are the only person who is entitled to express yourself, and that just isn't the case.

John L Howell from Oak Park  

Posted: August 13th, 2012 10:43 PM

Cont.....I would be well within my rights to express myself with a lengthy butt kicking, or should I be coming home from playing softball a little pinata training? This is harrassment and bullying. Carol you strike me as the kind of person that thinks that bullying kids for being different is wrong, so please explain how this is any different.

John L Howell from Oak Park  

Posted: August 13th, 2012 10:40 PM

Ok let me see if I can boil this all down to where some of you people can understand it......I have yet to complain about the Brooks kids that stop and yell "F---ing Motherf---ing racist", or the other idiots that shout their obscenities as they drive by. We are not talking about words we are talking about escalating actions! So I guess that by Carols thought process if this Marine were to catch the people doing this......cont

Unfortunately  

Posted: August 13th, 2012 10:37 PM

BTW, speaking of my "solution" of "IGNORE IT!" - what do you think that conservatives do every day in OP? I haven't read a Ken Trainor "political" column in years. He's an excellent writer and when he doesn't go in the "political" direction I enjoy what he has to say. So, if the true OP minority knows how to practice the "IGNORE IT!" solution - why can't the majority? Why the "all or nothing" approach by the left in OP? They go nuts when even one member of a board isn't a member of their clan!?!

Unfortunately  

Posted: August 13th, 2012 10:32 PM

Speaking of "heroes" - can't we, the ANONYMOUS posters - at least acknowledge that the Howells are quite brave in their actions? Yes, I consider this to be "heroic" - particularly with all of the "liberal haters" in Oak Park today! In the meantime, to repeat, don't like the message? Then IGNORE IT! Yes, Carol, I'm talking to YOU!

Dad from OPRF  

Posted: August 13th, 2012 7:21 PM

@carol...Oh my god! Carol if u can talk with a sign more power to you. I support their right just has I would someone who posted a sign that says Marxism is good! My speech is in no way infringed upon by someone else's sign. Why must conservative or liberal by used has an adjective in such disparaging ways!?! Listen, understand and respect is my moto.

Carol from Oak Park  

Posted: August 13th, 2012 7:09 PM

Yeah, thanks, no need to repeat yourself, Dad from OPRF, I get it. If a conservative has an obnoxious and offensive sign, no one is allowed to exercise their own free speech rights in response. Because having your message on a sign means that it's your property, and the castle doctrine applies or something. Does that mean you get to shoot anyone who doesn't comply?

Dad from OPRF  

Posted: August 13th, 2012 6:55 PM

@Carol. U really need to read what I wrote again. I made no mention of content. Only that a sign should not be responded to. It's a person's property and should be respected.

Carol from Oak Park  

Posted: August 13th, 2012 6:30 PM

@Dad from OPRF, thanks for clarifying that you're for free speech only as long as it comes in sign form, but that everyone else should just shut up, because otherwise conservatives will get all butthurt and stuff.

Professor Peter Van Nostrand   

Posted: August 13th, 2012 6:03 PM

My statistical analysis shows comment boards are a form of mental masturbation.

Q from Oak Park  

Posted: August 13th, 2012 6:00 PM

Rj, Republican's believe the same as Democrat's with regards to destroying individuals property, but when it comes to the environment and profit, the Republican's choose profit.

Q from Oak Park  

Posted: August 13th, 2012 5:58 PM

Carol from Oak Park, OPRFDad hasn't turned anything around. You better not let any real Democrat who believes in freedom of speech catching you burning, or destroying anyone's property. It will be 10 lashes on your fat ass and then off to the authorities.

Q from Oak Park  

Posted: August 13th, 2012 5:56 PM

OPRFDad, don't let Carol give you an impression of a Democrat. If you catch her lighting your garbage can, she now knows that she will be getting 10 lashing on that big fat ass of hers.

Q from Oak Park  

Posted: August 13th, 2012 5:54 PM

Carol from Oak Park you are wrong, and if you think any Democrat thinks along your lines, you are once again, wrong. If you can be badgered by an epidemic of gigantic, obnoxious signs, the other way around. If any real Democrat catches you doing any destruction to a Republican's property, we will give you 10 lashes on that big fat ass of yours.

Q from Oak Park  

Posted: August 13th, 2012 5:49 PM

Brian Slowiak, during those War's, yes, that is correct. I don't recall if it was a 5 or 7 second fuse, it was shortened during Viet Nam, to 3 seconds to make sure its intended purpose wasn't tossed away.

J from Oak Park  

Posted: August 13th, 2012 5:48 PM

Conservatives in Oak Park have been quiet for a very long time, but we need to speak up. There is just too much at stake now.

dad from OPRF  

Posted: August 13th, 2012 5:46 PM

@Carol...A sign is not dialog a blog post is. If you see a sign the decent and open-minded thing to do is keep walking. No comment was needed its just a sign. Freedom of speech means an acceptance of all forms has valid. Once a dialog occurs between two people then of coarse things change. Each person's rights should be listen to. BTW...i took a position on the schools referendum and my kids where harassed by other parents. That's where your position leads.

Rj  

Posted: August 13th, 2012 5:28 PM

Carol - We can all disagree all day long. What separates the Conservatives from the leftists is we don't destroy private property to try and dissuade free speech and then blame it on kids or we go out of our way to avoid the annoyance and leave it at that.

Carol from Oak Park  

Posted: August 13th, 2012 5:02 PM

You know, conservatives here in the comments section are really having a chilling effect on my freedom of speech with their insults and angry denouncements of my opinion. I'm feeling very oppressed and frightened. I think the Wednesday Journal should do an interview and editorial about my story, indicting all conservatives (every single one of them) who comment here for how awful they are to people who disagree with them.

J from Oak Park  

Posted: August 13th, 2012 5:01 PM

The Howells want to awaken a village. OP. has a very intelligent populous but is totally closed minded to all but social issues, they see nothing else. Gay rights, choice, equal healthcare for all, etc. If we look past them we'll see the liberal movement is moving the country in a socialist/ Fascist direction at an incredibly fast pace. If we don't awaken quickly we could be re-living Nazi Germany and the social issues believed being fought for now will be gone forever too. Wakeup Carol

Carol from Oak Park  

Posted: August 13th, 2012 4:48 PM

OPRFDad - typical wingnut. If the only way you can win an argument is to lie about what I've actually said, then maybe you should just quit.

Thoughtcriminal from Oak Park  

Posted: August 13th, 2012 4:47 PM

Carol - Until today, all your responses have been conditional on the message of the signs as well as the medium. I'm glad you have come around to see that that was not appropriate. Y'know Hinsdale limits political signs to a maximum area of 4 sq ft. I would tend to agree that in a neighborhood setting, anything more borders on the obnxious. Here in freespirited Oak Park though, your only alternatives are to lump it or, to quote a recent WJ editorial directed at conservatives: "bet yet, move".

OPRFDad  

Posted: August 13th, 2012 4:38 PM

Q - their property has been vandalised. As to who they are helping - the rest of us in Oak Park who don't want nuts like Carol lighting our garbage cans on fire and then blaming us for not towing the party line. In Carol's world, the mugging victim is to blame for wearing clean clothes and a nice watch in the ghetto.

Brian Slowiak from Oak Park  

Posted: August 13th, 2012 4:35 PM

To Q: Trying is... well...trying, especially to the spirit. I read somewhere that either the Iwo Marines or the Korean Marines would catch grenades and throw them back. Dont know if it is true.

Carol from Oak Park  

Posted: August 13th, 2012 4:14 PM

@Dad from OPRF...are you really suggesting that if someone feels badgered by an epidemic of gigantic, obnoxious signs, their freedom of speech should be suppressed in favor of the sign-poster?

Q from Oak Park  

Posted: August 13th, 2012 3:38 PM

It's time for all good men to come to the aid of their fellow American. Searching for a good few men willing to stand to protect the right of the Howell's right to post their political opinions. Republican's, Tea toters and Democrat's are welcome.

Q from Oak Park  

Posted: August 13th, 2012 3:33 PM

OPRFDad, wrong, no hero with the Howell's. They are in no danger for posting their political opinions and are not saving anyone with their opinions.

MichaelO from Oak Park  

Posted: August 13th, 2012 3:26 PM

Dad, What risk were your heroes taking? Are we talking sticks and stones here?

Dad from OPRF  

Posted: August 13th, 2012 3:21 PM

@ Carol..are you really suggesting that if I put a sign up that says "Go Cubs" that would be considered badgering a non-cub fan? There is a difference between a sign of support and verbally badgering someone. One requires no interaction and the other seeks to confront and shout down. Can anyone just make a statement and expect no return in your world?

OPRFDad  

Posted: August 13th, 2012 3:13 PM

Q - a hero is someone who will risk self and personal interest for the good of others. The Howells fit that description. They speak their mind and display their signs despite repeated insults, threats and vandalism. That's pretty much the definition of a hero.

Q from Oak Park  

Posted: August 13th, 2012 2:16 PM

Brian Slowiak, you always need to keep trying, and in different ways. Literally, a grenade would not leave enough time to pick up and toss. It's a 3 step process. Release, throw and land.

Brian Slowiak from Oak Park  

Posted: August 13th, 2012 1:44 PM

To Q from Oak Park: A hero picks up the grenade, throws the grenade, saves himself and his buddies. A hero then has to live with thought that he/she will not be able to duplicate the action and will be forced to try, and fail.

Q from Oak Park  

Posted: August 13th, 2012 1:23 PM

Oak Park, you aren't fooling anyone. You are a blue collar beer drinking, gun packing, tattoo wearing, gay galloping, over weight driving, walmart dressing, pan handling, childish thinking, grammar school bullying, better then anyone else, over spending, liberal one way newspaper thinking, village.

Carol from Oak Park  

Posted: August 13th, 2012 1:21 PM

@Dad from OPRF. I am curious what you see as the difference between the Howells using signage to badger their neighbors and passersby, and someone passing by saying something or making a rude gesture, or as you say, badgering the Howells, in response to the signs?

Dad from OPRF  

Posted: August 13th, 2012 1:16 PM

@Carol. I am curious, is it OK to badger a neighbor because the think differently then you? The loudest wins? I know this, the loudest "vehement" protesters never hear, they just believe because they believe.

Q from Oak Park  

Posted: August 13th, 2012 12:50 PM

OPRFDad, you know what a hero is? Someone who will throw themselves onto a grenade to save others. From there, the word hero has been used as often as someone saying I would love to do it. It means nothing when words are not used correctly, and that is not an issue, it's a problem.

OPRFDad  

Posted: August 13th, 2012 12:25 PM

Oak Park needs more heroes like the Howells to stand up to the Oak Park Communist Goon Squad.

Carol from Oak Park  

Posted: August 13th, 2012 11:36 AM

Oh good lord, thoughtcriminal, you'll have to point me to the spot where I suggested that the government should step in and take the Howells' stupid signs away. I am all for freedom of speech, including the freedom for people to vehemently and loudly disagree with the Howells' mode of expression, stopping short of vandalism or other criminal activities. Freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from people saying that the Howells' signs are obnoxious.

Thoughtcriminal from Oak Park  

Posted: August 13th, 2012 11:20 AM

Carol: Wow, you really seem to believe that the degree of free speech granted to an individual is dependent on the content of his or her message: Fri at 3:01PM "There is a significant difference between... signifying your solidarity with a persecuted minority, and ... signifying your dissatisfaction with poor people finally catching a... break on health insurance." Wow, just wow.

Peter from Oak Park  

Posted: August 13th, 2012 10:34 AM

Gee OP Neighbor, I thought we were all welcome in Oak Park regardless of the color of our car. Last time I drove by I didn't see the sign but then I'm apparently not as observant as you are. Keep up the good work.

OP Neighbor from Oak Park  

Posted: August 13th, 2012 2:27 AM

Peter they did not take it down, do you still feel better about your drive down Jackson, or are you the one that flips them the bird in your silver car when you drive by?

Howie from Oak Park  

Posted: August 13th, 2012 2:15 AM

Thoughtcriminal your analogy IS spot on, regardless of what Carol tends to think. Oh and what do you call a conservative winning a political argument? A RACIST/HOMOPHOBE/XENOPHOBE/BIGGOT (take your pick and yes all caps are necessary)!

Howie from Oak Park  

Posted: August 13th, 2012 2:11 AM

Hey Carol I don't condone rape but if a chick dresses in a certain way how can she expect anything other?

Q from Oak Park  

Posted: August 12th, 2012 11:40 PM

For the need to write an editorial to tell people in Oak Park to accept Republicans and not damage their property is a crock of crap. What type of idiots live in Oak Park, if they are really doing that. This editorial makes it appear that the majority of Democrats will vandalize someone's property because they vote Democratic. This really should make anyone think what W.J. thinks the mentality of the people in Oak Park, is.

rj  

Posted: August 12th, 2012 11:12 PM

Thank you again Howells - Big sign to reflect BIG, BAD bill - a bill obnoxious, provocative and meant to compromise your liberty.

MichaelO from Oak Park  

Posted: August 12th, 2012 9:48 PM

The sign was obnoxious and meant to provoke.

Bruce Samuels from Oak Park  

Posted: August 12th, 2012 6:21 PM

I agree that we need more tolerance for divergent points of view. Mary Howell and I may not agree on national politics but we did get together in the past about our concerns with the Ike expansion and we both co-signed a bank account for Citizens for Appropriate Transportation. We need to have civil discussions and to that end Citizens for Community Conversation will co-host a Town Hall Meeting at Unity Temple on September 9 from 530 to 900 PM.

Wondering  

Posted: August 11th, 2012 5:13 PM

I don't know where to start here...what I'm wondering is why I live here. This is absolutely abhorent. OP considers itself to be a tolerant & diverse community? Take a closer look. It's shameful! @ carol: if you think the"giant anti-ACA sign signifies dissatis w/poor people finally catching a break...", THINK again! NO ONE KNOWS everything that's packed into that bill including BHO who signed it! Mary & John I applaud & respect you immensely. I wish I was as brave to speak my mind as openly.

perspective  

Posted: August 10th, 2012 4:07 PM

@Carol; take a hard look at yourself and see the problem. You don't mind "_______" if they wouldn't act so "________" When it comes to offensive, size doesn't matter. A small swastika is more offensive than a giant impeach Cheney sign for example.

Carol from Oak Park  

Posted: August 10th, 2012 3:01 PM

And not to wade too deeply into the weeds here, thoughtcriminal, but could we at least acknowledge that your analogy is a bad one? There is a significant difference between a rainbow flag or sticker signifying your solidarity with a persecuted minority, and a giant anti-ACA sign signifying your dissatisfaction with poor people finally catching a small, less-than-satisfactory break on health insurance.

Carol from Oak Park  

Posted: August 10th, 2012 2:45 PM

Thought criminal: Nope.

Thoughtcriminal from Oak Park  

Posted: August 10th, 2012 2:19 PM

"Let's be honest here, thoughtcriminal, would you really be surprised if your rainbow sticker was vandalized?" ... Because a rainbow sticker is an overt display of hostility deserving a hostile reply?

Survey Says  

Posted: August 10th, 2012 1:23 PM

The Wednesday Journal comments are even more trolly than usual lately.

studies indicate  

Posted: August 10th, 2012 1:22 PM

cont... at the Day in our Village in Oak Park?

studies indicate  

Posted: August 10th, 2012 1:20 PM

Why wasn't anyone offended a few years back when someone was dressed up as President Bush in jailhouse stripes with "war criminal" across his chest?

Carol from Oak Park  

Posted: August 10th, 2012 1:05 PM

Conservative, studies also indicate that people immediately tune out posts that begin with "studies indicate," due to the high likelihood that they will be boring, pompous, and irrelevant.

Carol from Oak Park  

Posted: August 10th, 2012 12:52 PM

Let's be honest here, thoughtcriminal, would you really be surprised if your rainbow sticker was vandalized? I wouldn't be. People can be real jerks. As I said, I don't condone vandalism, I am just not surprised that it happened, and in this instance I seriously doubt that it had anything to do with politics. It was likely kids.

Conservative in Oak Park  

Posted: August 10th, 2012 12:52 PM

Carol, studies indicate the physical reaction in the brain to stimulus that reinforces your beliefs is akin to the effects on the brain from cocaine. I assume that a similar strong reaction occurs for the opposite. When you see the rare OP conservative propoganda, try to focus on other things, like trees and pretty houses. It's a little harder to do that being a conservative in Oak Park, but somewhat effective. For instance I enter the Farmers Market, from the East - away from Dem signs...

Thoughtcriminal from Oak Park  

Posted: August 10th, 2012 12:27 PM

Carol, I really have a problem with your now twice repeated apologist sentiment: "I don't condone vandalism, but when you go against the majority...". So as a gay man, I shouldn't be surprised at any vandalism and verbal or physical abuse aimed my way in response to a rainbow sticker on my car or rainbow flag in front of my house, nor should I report or complain about it?

rj  

Posted: August 10th, 2012 11:02 AM

I'm very sure that if the Howell's sign read - Vote Yes for the School Referendum - size would not matter and you would not view it as obnoxious. Let's be honest here. Stupid and counter productive- don't think so - certainly got your attention. But as usual with leftist they'll attack the messenger, and ignore the message.

Carol from Oak Park  

Posted: August 10th, 2012 10:27 AM

Oh please. I said that I don't condone vandalism, and I meant it. It's stupid and destructive. I just happen to think that the Howells gigantic signs are also stupid and counterproductive. And to the stupid question about the prius nonsense, I don't do bumperstickers, but wouldn't be surprised if someone defaced one if I stuck it on my car, and I certainly wouldn't go whining to the Wednesday Journal about it.

A non-cussing neighbor  

Posted: August 10th, 2012 10:24 AM

"Overtly hostile" is surely related to the sheer size of the signs. To be fair, the WJ might have included a photo of their REPEAL OBAMACARE sign to indicate the visual obnoxiousness of these political advertisements. The village regulates what kind of columns people can use for their front porches, but gigantic billboards are allowed? Of course they are, it's free speech, but they are as obnoxious and unwelcome and offensive as if someone painted their FLW home neon orange.

Delbert IS is the Problem from OP  

Posted: August 10th, 2012 8:10 AM

@Delbert: In your mind, apparently, all conservatives are racist homophobes. That's a very small mind you got there! (And, yes, it's left wing idiots like you that are the PROBLEM is Oak Park...)

Unfortunately  

Posted: August 9th, 2012 10:01 AM

@Delbert. Thanks for proving the point that the conservative minority makes daily about OP liberals. I'll admit that I have no idea what your actual point is (I'll place it in the file of "my "mostly reductive and stupid comments on this WJ site"), but I'm guessing that you are either a friend of Carol's - or someone who thinks just like her!

Delbert from Oak Park  

Posted: August 9th, 2012 7:31 AM

Here we go again -- the plight of the "poor me" conservative. So abused. So misunderstood. Ready and willing to spew racist, homophobic, sexist platitudes and then cry foul when others take offense. Unable to deal with interpretive complexity--everything is a "card" to them. "He's playing The Race card" or "the Gender card"--said in an attempt to shut down any real convo and let their perspectives stand. Just look at the mostly reductive and stupid comments on this WJ site.

Not Conservative, But Less Liberal Than You Are from OP  

Posted: August 9th, 2012 5:53 AM

Thank you for this editorial. Admitting you have a problem is the first step to recovery. It fascinates me that a community that so prides itself on diversity simply cannot fathom that that diversity should also extend to opinions and points of view. And that fact that the Wednesday Journal traditionally ignores (or ridicules) points of view that are not as liberal as the ruling class of Oak Park, only worsens the situation. Perhaps this is a first step...I'm not holding my breath though....

Unfortunately  

Posted: August 8th, 2012 11:39 PM

I wonder what Carol and her OP friends would think if their neighbor, driving a Prius with an Obama/Biden bumper sticker in Texas, reported how their car was defaced and vandalized? Would she say that the car's "signage is probably perceived, correctly in my opinion, as overtly hostile and intentionally provocative, especially in a"...state where conservative..."views predominate"? Would she not be "too surprised when people respond to (this) display of hostility with a return of hostility"?

Question  

Posted: August 8th, 2012 9:40 PM

This editorial makes me wonder: Will a leash or a muzzle be used on Ken Trainor?

OPRFDad  

Posted: August 8th, 2012 4:12 PM

I'm a conservative, and it is people like Carol who are the reason I don't use my real name on this site. Wow, they say Chicago is 10 years behind the coasts - I think that is being generous. Me Carol; me cavewoman. Me no like dissenting opinion. Me crush!!!

Thoughtcriminal from Oak Park  

Posted: August 8th, 2012 4:09 PM

Carol - Characterizing opposing points of view as hostile simply because they disagree with the liberal/progressive 'will of the People' (as determined by you) is repugnant and smacks of totalitarianism. Perhaps you'd have the thoughtcriminals of Oak Park declared enemies of the state and deported to DuPage County?

Conservative from Oak Park  

Posted: August 8th, 2012 3:14 PM

Really Carol/ Hostile? Eye for eye? How about walking to the Farmers Market on Lake Street from the West and getting bombarded with Democrat Party of Oak Park banners, Cook County Democrats signs, etc. That's annoying. So I walk from the East, or skip it entirely and go to Trader Joes where food is less expensive.

Peter from OAK PARK  

Posted: August 8th, 2012 2:45 PM

"...to accept all people, we might start with the conservatives among us." True 'dat. We might also refrain from implicating a large swath of the community for the idotic actions of a few. The vandalism and stealing are deplorable. "Being vigorously cussed at..." is surely impolite, but free speech, no? I absolutely want the Howells to feel safe and secure in their community and I hope they do. I also thank them for taking down their sign, it's made driving on Jackson much more enjoyable.

rj  

Posted: August 8th, 2012 12:59 PM

"don't be too surprised when people respond to a display of hostility with a return of hostility". So when a Conservative considers Obama and his policies hostile to them and this country they should refrain from voicing their opinions from their private property, which they pay dearly for, because the liberal views dominate. Carol, you may not condone vandalism but you tend to favor mob rule. Better ways to express our views - are we back to "move"?

Carol from Oak Park  

Posted: August 8th, 2012 12:36 PM

I'm not condoning vandalism in any way, but I would like to point out that the Howells' signage is probably perceived, correctly in my opinion, as overtly hostile and intentionally provocative, particularly in a village where liberal/progressive views predominate. I don't think the Howells should be too surprised when people respond to a display of hostility with a return of hostility. There are better, less anti-social means for both the Howells and their vandals to express their views.

rj  

Posted: August 8th, 2012 10:33 AM

John & Mary Howell -I want a "Repeal OBCare" sign. Keep doing what you're doing. Many of us here stand with you. The only way to fight the leftist fascists is with the truth - one thing they can't tolerate. The stigma is on them, not you.

No longer good enough to be from from Oak Park  

Posted: August 8th, 2012 10:07 AM

Indeed. If sincere, a welcome reversal of the "better yet, move" sentiment addressed by a member of the same editorial staff to dissenting Oak Parkers just a few weeks ago.

Unfortunately  

Posted: August 7th, 2012 10:32 PM

Better late than never. Thanks you.