Police shoot unarmed black man-will this ever end?

Opinion: Letters To The Editor

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By Terry Dean

Staff reporter

The shooting of Michael Brown in Ferguson, Missouri occurred just days before I arrived in St. Louis for my daughter's scheduled hip surgery last week. I thought: Damn, another innocent, unarmed young black male teen shot to death by police. Then we started to find out that Brown, 18, might not have been so squeaky clean as an individual. 

He did steal a box of cigars from a local convenient store that afternoon, Aug. 9, just prior to the shooting. For that, he should have been arrested, tried and, if found guilty, convicted and sentenced to prison time accordingly. 

"Shoot on sight," however, is neither justice nor an appropriate solution. 

Ferguson Police Chief Tom Jackson first said the two incidents were not related — that the accused shooter, Off. Darren Wilson, did not exact some old-fashioned street justice against Brown for breaking the law. 

Then the police department — under Jackson's contradictory and confusing order — released the store's video security footage, allegedly showing Brown committing the robbery, including physically assaulting the store's owner who tried to stop him. 

You don't need to be a lawyer to see what Jackson's trying to do: laying the groundwork for justifying the shooting. And that includes the department now saying that Wilson might have seen the box of cigars on "Brown's person."

Along with the tear-gassing of peaceful protestors, Ferguson's starting to look like something out of mid-20th century America, with blacks terrorized by the KKK and white supremacists in both the South and North. 

I'll let others make the comparison between Chief Jackson and Eugene "Bull" Connor, the cold-blooded, racist police commissioner in Birmingham, Alabama during the Civil Rights Movement. Blacks were routinely harassed, hunted and killed by police back then.

Today, that's not true for all police and every department. There are good cops here in Missouri and elsewhere. But there remain those who probably should be in a different line of work. 

According to various witnesses in the Brown shooting, his hands were raised before he was shot. Newly-released autopsy photos confirm he was shot several times in the face and elsewhere from the front. No weapons belonging to Brown were found on him. He was originally stopped for jaywalking with his buddy in the street. 

But the crime of "Driving (or in this case walking) While Black" is just something black folks made up, right?

If Brown attacked the police, which is what the Ferguson Police Department says happened, then any cop has a right to defend himself, including using force, even if that force is lethal. But that just doesn't appear to be the case here. You don't shoot and kill the person who just whipped your butt in a fist fight. Just lick your wounds and move on. 

If Brown did, as the police say, wrestle with Officer Wilson and somehow ended up inside the squad car and then somehow back out on the street, if he then surrenders, cops just can't shoot him down in cold blood. If they can in this incident, then they can in almost any incident involving a "potential threat."

Regardless of what kind of person Michael Brown was, we can add him to the long list of unarmed black men and boys killed by police over the last decade or so, most of whom committed no crime whatsoever.  

Damn, when will this madness ever end?

CONTACT: tdean@wjinc.com

Reader Comments

367 Comments - Add Your Comment

Comment Policy

Mose from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: October 23rd, 2014 11:13 AM

That's a really dumb and dangerous "experiment" you propose, Transplant. Regardless of the neighborhood or community, suggesting someone attempt to take the gun from a police officer is encouraging risky and reckless behavior. Of course, you do realize that it is no simple and easy task to grab and capture a weapon that has been properly holstered by a police officer. Better to see a physician or mechanic to get your loose screws tightened.

OP Transplant  

Posted: October 23rd, 2014 11:04 AM

Bill - Just wondering which posters are the "retards" and which are the "loser hicks"? Also, which would be worse? These things are tough for me to quantify.

Mose from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: October 23rd, 2014 10:59 AM

Realist, you assuming facts that we do not know are actually in evidence but instead are relying on news reports and leaks that may be slanted to support versions that both sides contend are accurate. The "photo" of Wilson's injuries was detemined to be actually a pix of an injured x-games athlete. Better to wait for the grand jury to determine if the shooting was justifiable.

So many questions  

Posted: October 23rd, 2014 10:48 AM

It seems the shattered eye socket detail was leaked by Wilson's friends. I am bothered by the selective disclosure of information. I don't like it when anyone tries to manipulate my view of anything. To the point of the legal case, Brown was killed after that altercation, when he had his hands up with no weapon in them. Even if Brown punched Wilson in the face, that doesn't give Wilson the right to shoot him after the fact.

Bill Doogan  

Posted: October 23rd, 2014 10:44 AM

Check out the comments from the "gun rights" crypto Klansmen defending the killer cop. Most of the NRA retards are authoritarians. They wave the flag and beat their chest talking about freedom & the Constitution, but most are loser hicks with the mentality of slaves. That's why they let NRA lobbyist Todd Vandermyde put Duty to Inform police in the carry bill. DTI is only for black people in Chicago, not the good old boys in southern IL where HB183 sponsor Brandon Phelps lives. Yee-haw!

Realist from OP  

Posted: October 23rd, 2014 10:00 AM

@Mose are u serious?!!! "Mike Brown may have behaved badly but not did kill or cause great bodily harm. " Wilson's eye socket was SHATTERED from the force of the Brown's assault. Do u have any idea how hard that is to do?!!

OP Transplant  

Posted: October 23rd, 2014 9:54 AM

To those of you who are certain that Officer Wilson's behavior was motivated by racism, I propose an experiment. You go into a high-crime neighborhood and attempt to forcibly disarm a police officer. My hypothesis is that, regardless of your race or the race of the officer, you would be killed or injured. I believe that the dynamic at work here is much more officer/suspect than it is white/black.

Franz from Winnetka  

Posted: October 23rd, 2014 9:41 AM

So many questions, You are kidding, right? The mob was not and is not remotely interested in the truth. Had Wison provided his account as you hoped, it would have fallen on deaf ears. Those willing to loot and ravage their own neighborhoods are not interested in the truth, they are just looking to lash out.

So many questions  

Posted: October 23rd, 2014 9:28 AM

If Officer Wilson's account is true, why wasn't it provided right away? Doing so may have helped prevent what has happened since Brown was killed. Telling his version of what happened couldn't have made things any worse.

Wayne  

Posted: October 23rd, 2014 8:45 AM

To Anon. I wouldn't worry to much about how people will look at, or think of you, as a result of all this. If you're a law abiding, decent person, looking for a better life, I think you'll be ok- but I cant speak for everyone. I agree with you about the polygraph test. I think every one involved, and that claims to be a witness to this case should be tested as well. I believe that would knock Johnson out ,as a liar, in shout order. Who's going to believe a proven liar and a thief?

Bill Dwyer  

Posted: October 23rd, 2014 8:24 AM

I apply the term 'thug' to a huge stoned teenager who, when stopped by a cop on suspicion of a crime, attacks said cop, smashes him repeatedly in the face, attempts to disarm him, gets shot, runs off then turns around and charges the cop. That behavior is not something worthy of the energy being expended in Ferguson. There are real problems and injustices in the black community needing attention and redress. Michael Brown isn't one of them, and the protesters are fools wasting their energies.

Mose from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: October 22nd, 2014 9:44 PM

Anon, extend you message to men of all races. Our gender accounts for the majority of violent crimes. It would make it harder if all men were viewed as

Mose from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: October 22nd, 2014 9:34 PM

Bill, isn't it unfair of you to characterize people marching in protest or calling for justice as "mobs"? I wouldn't give much credence to any rabblerouser making threats for the TV cameras. That's teapartyish! Do you apply the term "thug" to only people suspected to be involved in or proven guilty of criminal behavior? Mike Brown may have behaved badly but not did kill or cause great bodily harm. He might just be a teenager acting foolishly who got caught in a tragic set of circumstances.

Anon from Fairfax  

Posted: October 22nd, 2014 8:49 PM

Not knowing all of the FACTS, I cannot make an accurate judgment of whether Micheal Brown deserved to get shot or not. However I want to test the legitimacy of the officers word. We could possibly do a lie detector test on whether the officer is lying about what brown did or not. Second, I just want to make this clear, African-Americans, please do not steal, by doing this you will make it harder for us successful African Americans to get by in this world. It's hard enough already as it is.

Bill Dwyer  

Posted: October 22nd, 2014 8:38 PM

Why, I'd ask, have mobs of people been in the streets for the past 73 days, with supposedly responsible people bellowing about the dire consequences if a grand jury doesn't indict a police officer? Apparently, no matter what the facts are? It all makes me question my liberal values. Mike Brown was a criminal thug, and the facts are going to support that. I don't waste my energy and time on people like him. The real, genuine issues before us are too important, and MSNBC, etc, should be ashamed.

Mose from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: October 22nd, 2014 8:24 PM

Bill,my mistake if I was wrong to view your post as directed towards me. Please understand that I have not been willing to offer any opinion regarding the guilt or innocence of Brown or Wilson and have suggested people ought to refrain from declaring there is proof to support any particular position. Wait for the grand jury and then either cheer or jeer their decision. Why are some unwilling to wait for our legal system to do it's job and instead pursue a rush to judgement? Racial hatred?

Mose from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: October 22nd, 2014 8:10 PM

Wayne, aren't you guilty of the same thing charge you level against Mr.Dean? You want him to have all the facts but place no such restriction on yourself. Is it possible you do have a racist bone in your body in light of the nasty tone of the comment telling people to leave their country if not happy here. Clearly you are not interested in a civil dialogue regarding an incident that has engaged thoughtful people to ask important questions and offer well reasoned opinion.

Mose from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: October 22nd, 2014 7:34 PM

Let's say I'm more than skeptical of "reporting" offered by your key source. Too bad you seek a rush to judgement instead of allowing the grand jury to examine the evidence presented to them and then deciding if the shooting was justifiable. I don't know the facts nor do you. Big difference seems to be your insistence that both Mike Brown and Trayvon Martin deserved to be shot dead. That's not the way it's supposed to work.

Bill Dwyer  

Posted: October 22nd, 2014 7:23 PM

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/new-evidence-supports-officers-account-of-shooting-in-ferguson/2014/10/22/cf38c7b4-5964-11e4-bd61-346aee66ba29_story.html?hpid=z2 .. You have a problem when the truth coming out undercuts your position. That's what newspaper are supposed to be about. Bringing out the truth. Hopefully the truth keeps coming out here.

Uncommon Sense  

Posted: October 22nd, 2014 7:01 PM

WaPo is also reporting there are seven or eight BLACK eye witnesses who back up Officer Wilson's account, but have not spoken out of fear of safety. theconservativetreehouse.com has a complete breakdown of all the evidence, witnesses, players, motives, timelines, photos, etc. Most of the major outlets source their info from this site. They broke most of the Travyon Martin evidence (the site was mentioned in the trial).

OP Transplant  

Posted: October 22nd, 2014 6:42 PM

Mose - I wouldn't look for grand jury results before mid-winter. The most likely outcome is that the officer will be exonerated, and authorities know that rioting will be kept to a minimum by weather. Autopsy info was probably leaked for the same reason; to soften the impact later. This information is being "handled" in a way that is intended to cause the least damage.

Uncommon Sense  

Posted: October 22nd, 2014 6:34 PM

It is becoming obviously clear from the information leaking out that it is highly unlikely Officer Wilson will be indicted to hopefully quell any additional violence. I certainly don't expect any apologies to Officer Wilson, QuikTrip, the beauty salons, and all the other true victims from the black grievance pimps and charlatans for being wrong yet again.

Mose from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: October 22nd, 2014 6:16 PM

All the facts have not been fully disclosed. An autopsy report was leaked. Yet another example of those in charge of this investigation continuing to act in an unprofessional manner. The grand jury continues to hear testimony and those findings are not expected for several months.

Johnny C  

Posted: October 22nd, 2014 6:13 PM

They tried to frame OJ, what makes you think this recent information is any different?

Wayne  

Posted: October 22nd, 2014 5:55 PM

To Mr. Dean. I noticed your comment about some cops are good, but others need look for a different line of work. I think you need to find a new line of work. Print before you have all the facts, just riding on the tails of angry blacks of a slack mentality. Also, you said Wilson should only have arrested Brown, and if convicted, he should have sentenced to an appropriate amount of prison time. Easy to say when your ass is not on the line like Wilsons was. Oh, and you can put your arms down now

begladicarry from anywhere  

Posted: October 22nd, 2014 4:49 PM

This entire blog is now irrelevant. The facts are now fully disclosed and Michael Brown was indeed a thug, and did indeed bring about his own death. Nothing the officer did or said was racist in any way, nor was any action of his inappropriate. Time to look for a different martyr.

OP Transplant  

Posted: October 22nd, 2014 2:45 PM

"Might want to revise his photo as well." Realist- Perhaps in the interest of journalistic accuracy, Mr. Dean will favor us with a photo of himself trying to wrestle a service weapon from the hands of a uniformed police officer?

Realist from OP  

Posted: October 22nd, 2014 2:07 PM

Ummm-- apparently this hands up pose was a fiction. Finally some evidence that shows that folks spoke a little too soon , including the writer of this op-ed piece. Might want to revise his photo as well. http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/10/michael-brown-autopsy/381761/

factchecker99 from ferguson  

Posted: October 22nd, 2014 9:12 AM

these kids are about as innocent as a 5 dollar hooker, check the facts. two criminals got shot while assaulting/shooting at police you out of towners don't know any facts your just here against our will tearing up our cities the blame doesn't lie with police it lies with the parents that were too busy to raise/parent their children

straight lines  

Posted: October 20th, 2014 3:24 PM

after lookin thru some of the dialogue from Dean article and responses to other comments. I'd just like to say writers are suppose to be objective and truthful, no matter how terrible it makes you or others feel. Everyone of these cases are individualized and stand alone. This officer Wilson never shot anyone before. You make it sound like conspiring and taking turns to systematically kill blacks. From what I'v seen your the racist- But it must be hard to see with your head stuck up your ass

Wayne  

Posted: October 20th, 2014 8:54 AM

I still say Wilsons the true victim here. Did Brown deserve to die? for his actions brown might as well have pulled the trigger on himself. this isn't a racist thing, he didn't get shot because he was black, but because of his actions, dont ask why. Oh but look how many other black teens get shot, yea, because so many commit bad crimes. Most blacks are wonderful, productive citizens, but the rest, if not happy here, move to another country like Africa but youll have to work if you want to ea

mi from cleveland  

Posted: October 17th, 2014 2:22 PM

Wo cares.stop acting like an animal and you won't get killed by the cops.

dan  

Posted: October 17th, 2014 11:55 AM

It's time for me to let Michael Brown go- will be my last entry. There is always more than 1 side to a story. It just didn't have to end the way it did. Don't think well ever get the whole truth. If Wilson is convicted, or found innocent- neither would surprise me. Mr. Brown had his whole life ahead of him. Maybe if he saw so much wrong with the system, he'd decide to become a policeman to try to help make things right- still an uphill battle. Now we'll never know. Its in the lords hands now

dan  

Posted: October 17th, 2014 10:26 AM

The high school Mr. Brown attended was Normandy. How such well paid staff could fail the school isn't puzzling. Instead of cleaning up their own mess, (i.e. getting rid of ineffective teacher, sending thugs that disrupt classrooms, and threaten teachers to a more suitable location), they push that responsibility on to others. I don't know that Mr. Brown was college material. I don't think he learned respect, I think he was a bully and did what he wanted- and he Should have been brought better.

dan  

Posted: October 17th, 2014 9:21 AM

A mental glitch on my part, Winter- thanks for the correct. Still mired in the mud with this mess, and it still makes no sense; but if you look deeper certain things do come to light. I thought possibly, that the high school he attended had poorly paid staff. After checking though, I discovered that the average administrator salary was- $79,000/ with state average being- $70,000. For teachers- $58,000/ $41,000 for state average, and $56,000 regular term teachers, and state average was $39,000,.

Quest in ons from Madison and Pulaski  

Posted: October 16th, 2014 4:57 PM

I dont kow why police keep shooting un armed black teens. I also dont know why, when a black teen is shot by another black teen, there aint no protests. Wheres the protest and concern? Why is it only the rare time a white cop shoot a black teen, folks protest the white man? I thinks the media hype up that for ratings. Ratings equal money. Media profit off propaganda and nobody cares when black teen shoot another black teen. Only the rare time white man shoot black teen. The truth no doubt

Winter Skye from Chicago, Illinois  

Posted: October 16th, 2014 4:30 PM

Dan, why in bloody hell do you persist in calling Mose MOSS? Geez...once may be a typo, the second time Auto-Correct but this is getting ridiculous...LOL

Len from Las Vegas  

Posted: October 16th, 2014 4:06 PM

Maybe blacks shouldn't commit crimes 10 times as much as whites even though their population is only 13%

anonymous from sheridan  

Posted: October 15th, 2014 12:13 AM

We should open our eyes!!!! Black people are not dangerous, or scarey and they should not be locked up!!!! They should be the ones protecting us not white!!!

dan  

Posted: October 11th, 2014 5:18 AM

The fact is Moss, you have a closed mind, or you would be more open to other comments, and you wouldn't be afraid to listen to what these men have to say on the website that I suggested. You have hundreds of demonstrator (and rioters) out there, and not one of them saw what happened, If you want to make useful, go out there and tell those people what you're preaching here, and go home and wait for the grand Jury's ruling The truth hurts doesn't it Moss

Paul from Dayton  

Posted: October 11th, 2014 12:04 AM

If Mr. Brown at anytime disarmed the officer, or beat him til he was about to go out. Deadly force is allowed. You need to look at your supreme court rulings.

Mose from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: October 10th, 2014 6:08 PM

Dan, you are wrong to assume there is any logical reason to support the rather weak and incoherent positons you continue to present. Despite reasonable efforts directed at you to refrain from assuming you have access to all the pertinent facts and carefully reviewed the evidence; there is nothing you have to say that should be considered part of a thoughtful discussion. It's easy for you and a few others to claim to know the truth. The only fact is; you know nothing.

dan  

Posted: October 10th, 2014 4:53 PM

Hey Moss, You need to check something out. If you google Brown 1814dreadyhead. there is a Brother with a white doo rag. He has something to say- listen to him ( its about 22 min. long) very unbiased. Off to the right side is another brother that says "Michael Brown and Dorian Johnson an embarrassment!!!!!!) if you listen to them you may get some insight..

dan  

Posted: October 10th, 2014 3:30 PM

Moss, being a police officer is a thankless job- seems especially true in Ferguson There are many people (of all colors) out there that just plane hate cops. So I do give this officer the benefit of the doubt. Now, it seems evident that if someone obeys and respects the law, (and those enforcing it), they should have little to fear- but as it stands now, lawbreakers out there are hiding behind Brown supporters' protection regardless of crime - So if you kill one, you'll face their arson

dan  

Posted: October 10th, 2014 1:58 PM

No Moss, Joe asserted that the cop used excessive force behind a box of cigars, (without having all the facts), and again, I responded with my assertions. If officer Wilson did, in fact, kill Brown for a stolen box of cigars, it would be a very sad day-.and the 2 scenarios I listed below, can be considered, but they just sound so ridiculous. I do, however, agree with uncommon sense, there's a lynch mob out there, and now another black man killed over sandwich? It must have loaded with bullets

Uncommon Sense  

Posted: October 10th, 2014 11:38 AM

Mose, there is no debate about whether Brown made some bad choices. We agree that guilt or innocence has not been determined. However, you need to talk to rabble rousers in Ferguson about waiting on facts before deciding to loot and protest. It is really ironic you have black folks essentially calling for the lynching of a man without due process. The latest honor roll student killed was supposedly holding a sandwich despite all the evidence to the contrary.

Mose from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: October 10th, 2014 10:55 AM

You're back again, Dan! Too bad. Still insisting that, even without having access to any of the evidence currently being presented to a grand jury, you are able to determine guilt or innocence. Certainly calls into question your motivations.

dan  

Posted: October 10th, 2014 8:52 AM

Brown made some very poor choices. He chose not to respect the law, which ultimately got him killed- but not just for stealing cigars. He also assaulted a store clerk, and committed aggravated assault and battery on Wilson. He chose to use his large size for evil purposes rather than for good. He made Poor choices for friends as well. The friend that was with Brown when the shooting took place was asked for his testimony, started out that Brown was walking away, and shot in the back- is a lie.

Joe from Houston  

Posted: October 9th, 2014 11:09 AM

I think we're all focused on the wrong thing here, it's the fact that some ones 18 year old son is dead. Weather, black, white, blue green what ever color some one may be. No one should haft to make arguments for their child's death all because some cop used actsesive force behind a box of cigars.. Really? 3/5th that's all I gotta say.

Mose from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: October 7th, 2014 4:20 PM

Nice to read that you've dialed it back, Dan. A happy ending is probably out of the question for the officer or Mike Brown's family. Let's hope that the grand jury is careful to consider all of the evidence presented to them.

dan  

Posted: October 7th, 2014 10:32 AM

Moss, the only thing that I can say with any certainty is there will be no happy ending. No matter what the outcome, a lot of people will be up in arms, Those that support the victim, or those that support the cop. Even if Officer Wilson is exonerated, he will have to put into some protection program- somewhere, with a whole new identity- his whole family. Some of the best people that I've ever known are African Americans. They're good, down to earth people- Its a shame it has to be this way

Mose from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: October 7th, 2014 10:03 AM

Very true, Dan. The forum does provide us with an opportunity to share opinions and information. I viewed your posting as an attempt to assign guilt without any basis in fact. Better to wait for the grand jury to review the evidence the prosecutor presents and they will decide if the case needs to proceed to trial or conclude the shooting was justifiable. A rush to judgement by someone who has no access to factual information is of little value and raises questions about their motivation.

dan  

Posted: October 7th, 2014 8:46 AM

This forum is all about opinions, Moss, even yours. Its based on Mr. Deans opinion which is: black against white, when it should be about wrong VS right. When I see ridiculous assertions, not based on all the facts or something silly (like a white cop killing an unarmed black with his hands raised in the front of witnesses), I feel compelled to respond to them- no one's opinion, in this column, is based on all the facts- including yours Moss Without opinions this column would'nt even exist

Mose from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: October 6th, 2014 4:49 PM

Dan, before deciding which of the scenarios "makes the most sense" explain why this ought to be pondered by anyone who posts or reads comments on this forum? What's the point? Trying to rally the troops or create a groundswell? Why dismiss any explanation but your own? It sounds like you've already decided guilt or innocence without having heard any of the evidence that is being presented to a grand jury. Nothing's been leaked. Is this just your imagination running way from you?

dan  

Posted: October 6th, 2014 3:33 PM

Of the 2 scenarios below, which makes the most sense. Or, did Brown go to a shop to steal cigars, 4 pot smoke.The clerk tried to stop him from leaving and he assaulted the clerk, pushed him in by the throat. The clerk called cops with a description with stolen cigars. Cops found him walking down street, tried to stop him, cop was assaulted, and injured, pulled his gun- told him 2 stop, Brown stropped , came at the cop who fired, Brown kept coming, bull rushed the cop and was shot in top of. head

dan  

Posted: October 6th, 2014 2:04 PM

Brown and friend went to a shop to buy some cigars. Brown paid the clerk, and went to leave, but the clerk met him, and tried to steal the cigars from him. Brown explained that he had just paid for the cigars. Annoyed, Brown had to get physical and pushed the clerk back into the shop by the throat. The clerk falsified a call to police, giving his description to police, who recognized and went to stop him with lethal force- even tho he explained his plight, he was gunned down with hands raised

dan  

Posted: October 6th, 2014 9:07 AM

Here are two scenarios in the Brown case. Scenario #1 Brown was walking with his friend, minding his own business, and enjoying a nice day- when officer Wilson pulled up. The officer said: you're black, I don't want you walking down my street". They had words and Brown, having done nothing wrong, continued to walk down the street. Wilson pulled his pistol and shot Brown in the back, Brown turned around, put his hands in the air, and was shot 6 more times, the last shot in the top of his head.

ed scale from moeno valley  

Posted: October 5th, 2014 4:44 PM

no, because black people are no longer men but sheep who are being slaughtered. the ku klux kops believe in the 1857 supreme court chief justice roger taney declared in a court opinion that black people have no rights which the white man was bound to respect. black people have no human rights in the apartheid states.

Winter Skye from Chicago, Illinois  

Posted: October 5th, 2014 11:50 AM

@Tim: Why are you so afraid to say the word BLACK? I notice you have no problem saying WHITE so you must think BLACK is a dirty word or something. If you are WHITE, then this is a particularly interesting observation on my part. You see, whenever you treat someone differently (or refer to them in a different way), you are demonstrating a form of prejudice because you are deciding in advance how to judge them. Even if it's favorable, I mean! If you are White and speak to Black people with more sweetness and respect than you would a White counterpart, you are far from not being a racist. The true non-racist is someone who doesn't use a person's race/gender/ethnicity as a determinator for how they treat them.

Patriot from Atlanta  

Posted: October 5th, 2014 11:21 AM

in all reality it just looks to me like another wanna be punk ass gang banger cliped! I would almost bet money that the words college, military or job was not in this man's vocabulary! considerate population control gang bangers and thugs get dead! even a common face does not deserve to suck the same air as honest hardworking people.

dan  

Posted: October 5th, 2014 9:17 AM

Continuing, Mr. Dean should also take note of this- A DOJ study of 2012 revealed that blacks committed 6X more murders, 3X more rapes, 10X more robberies, and 3X more assaults than whites. Another study conducted by the FBI of 2008 in a crime report stated: Black youths made up about 16% of the youth population accounted for 52% violent crimes including: 58% of youth murders, and 67% of youth robberies. If you want to point fingers point them at the ones that commit these crimes- not the cops.

dan  

Posted: October 4th, 2014 3:51 PM

I don't think Brown was shot for stealing a box of cigars, nor shot for J walking- or being black, but the truth is: had he not robbed, nor J walked, he would still be here today- because the confrontation would never have occurred. A man on the internet has some insight that you may be interested in. Google: Brown 1814dreadyhead and listen what the man has to say. Its a 22 min. video- N worth listening to. There's 6X as many whites as blacks, but blacks still manage to murder more people- Why?

rb18  

Posted: October 1st, 2014 10:51 PM

I must also say this to some of the people posting and commenting that Mike Brown had a right to be shot down like a dog in the street by Officer Wilson because he stole a box of cigars. I'm from California where all day every day, Hispanics and white youths, do beer runs, in my college days I manage several convenience stores. White, Black, Asian and Hispanics you stole things on a regular basis, also from Retail and Grocery Stores, I have yet to see one of those kids shot down for stealing.

rb18  

Posted: October 1st, 2014 10:33 PM

There is plenty of Video of officer Wilson face, if the injuries are there and severe a enhancement of the tape should verify it. If not we have another Sanford Fl, Zimmerman walk in the station with no injuries and suddenly their is documentation. Do we really think they cannot get a doctor to false document after the fact.

Mose from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: September 24th, 2014 12:24 PM

Wayne, where is the evidence to support your claims regarding this incident? It appears you are just repeating unconfirmed news reports. The grand jury is charged with examining the facts and will make a determination. Trust the process to work before offering your verdict.

wayne  

Posted: September 24th, 2014 10:22 AM

Officer Wilson should never have been put in a position, to have used lethal force. When officers fears for their lives, they should have the right to use lethal force. He had already been attacked by Brown, and Wilson almost lost his revolver to Brown. During the scuffle, Brown inflicted serious injuries to Wilsons face and he had proven just what he was capable of. There never should have been an altercation between the two to begin with. Maybe marijuana use affected his judgment, Sadly.

Tim  

Posted: September 23rd, 2014 4:43 PM

Poor police officer, he get to live while Micheal doesn't. Poor, poor cop? What ever happen and I grant you we do not know all the facts, but what ever happened one person was unarmed and you don't just get to gun a person down. What happen to his training? Night stick and or tasser? To often the first response to African Americans is to shoot first. While whites get treated as if their life matters. This fact is clear even if other facts in this case are not., It is an country wide problem.

wayne from st louis  

Posted: September 23rd, 2014 12:37 PM

I think the saddest part of this whole Brown case, is that officer Wilsons life has been tragically torn apart, by someone who was portrayed as a sweet, tender hearted, child. Officer Wilson was just doing his job: enforcing the law. The evidence suggests that Brown disobeyed the law, and when confronted by Wilson, became belligerent, and attacked Wilson. During the struggle Wilson was injured by Brown (documented), there is a robbery (documented) and Brown, a lethal threat, was stopped .

Mose from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: September 23rd, 2014 12:09 PM

The grand jury is hearing evidence including testimony from Officer Wilson. Let's wait until all of the evidence has been presented and learn of their decision whether to indict or have found that the shooting was justifiable. There is much that we still don't know about the incident and it seems unfair to speculate on the guilt or innocence of either of Mike Brown or Darrell Wilson.

Tim Thomas from Richmond  

Posted: September 23rd, 2014 5:10 AM

First lets be clear, Micheal did not steal the cigars. Further video has revealed that he paid for them. Not shown by police, no big surprise there. However there was no 911 call from the store or its owner. A customer called police after a confrontation with the store owner that had nothing to do with the cigars. So yea he walked cause there was nothing to get away from. Moreover walking down the or in the street is not a shooting or kill offense. New audio released confirms he was surrendering

dan from st peters  

Posted: September 22nd, 2014 6:15 PM

All this was brought on Brown, by his own hand. For someone to strong- arm a theft in broad daylight, and then not try to make a getaway, but instead chose to walk down the middle of the street- like he did nothing? He was looking for a violent confrontation. This violence will end when people take responsibility for their actions- and learn to obey the law. ITS VERY SIMPLE ISNT IT? It seems to be a rite- of-passage in some neighborhoods, to get arrested and do time- does that make em good?

James from Benicia  

Posted: September 18th, 2014 8:10 AM

The black man always has his hand in the cookie jar. I work at a scrap yard and not one day goes by where we don't call the police because yes, a BLACK male is caught not only on camera, but by our employees loading copper onto his vehicle. 75% of the people coming in during the daytime are black. Not working like everyone else. They have a sense of entitlement to not take any responsibility for their own actions and blame others when they are caught doing it. Race card once again.

Mose from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: September 17th, 2014 9:04 PM

That's nonsense, Walter!

Walter j baldt from Philadelphia  

Posted: September 17th, 2014 8:35 PM

Why don't you write about black men shooting cops. You will find that it happens every dam day. So an unarmed blck man story is no big deal. If your going to write these kinds of stories write about both sides not just one.

fred from san berdoo  

Posted: September 16th, 2014 11:07 AM

This artical misstates the facts the thug who killed mike brown had no idea about the cigar incident he made contact with mike and his friend because they were walking in the street mike was killed for j-walking!!!.

put another way  

Posted: September 15th, 2014 3:57 PM

Reality chick -- your figures put another way are that 4-600 suspects are killed each year by 500,000 police officers and 158 police officers are killed by 12,000,000 suspects. So the odds of any one suspect being killed by a police officer are substantially higher than the odds of a police officer being killed by any one suspect. Your figures, which I did not check, show roughly 1 in 1000 police officers kills a suspect each year. Roughly 1 police officer per 76000 suspects is killed each year

Mose from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: September 15th, 2014 3:09 PM

Your research shoudl have provided you with better information. The 150+ police officers who die while on duty were not all the victims of the violent actions of a suspect. Auto accidents are the cause in a majority of these tragic incidents. No doubt poilce officers have been slain by criminals but to claim all were gunned down is simply false.

reality chick from somewhere  

Posted: September 15th, 2014 1:59 PM

Dr. Reno said 300 cops are killed annually, most by bruthas- from my research the average amount of cops that die each year at the hands of a suspect is 158. While that is less than the amount of suspects killed by cops, it is still a lot. Out of 12 million arrest in the US per year, about 400-600 suspects are killed. 12,000,000-600= 11,000,400 that don't die. There are less than 500,000 cops in the US. So 500,000-158 deaths. Odds of cop dying by suspect are higher than suspect dying by cop

Brian Slowiak from Westchester  

Posted: September 14th, 2014 5:08 PM

Worse, I think Dr. Jean Reno and James from Corinth are one in the same.

Mose from Oak Park  

Posted: September 14th, 2014 12:25 PM

Is Reno lying or badly misinformed? Police officers do die in the line of duty but to make a claim that 300 cops are killed annually by "bru-thus" is false. More likely the majority of officers were fatally injured in a motor vehicle accident or suffered a fatal heart attack. The fact that Reno chose to use offensive language and spelling to describe black males causes me to believe this post was motivated by racism and should be viewed as the hateful rantings of a very troubled mind.

Dr. Jean Reno  

Posted: September 13th, 2014 11:40 PM

Until police become mind readers (or get x-ray vision) they will have no way of knowing whether a black man resisting arrest---you know the old Rodney King thing of never doing what your told to do when stopped--is armed or not. By the way who says the po' black man was unarmed? I've see several cases where "friends" of the black guy hide the gun befor the cops ever get there. And... 300 cop are killed each year (most by bru-thus), so it'll be a while befor the cops catch up with you.

Jamie from Corinth   

Posted: September 13th, 2014 9:38 PM

It's so funny if it was a black cop and a white man it be so different y'all don't know what happen he was stealing . Kkk days or over I mean really ppl like u think cause y'all or they are black everyone should treat you or y'all special I hate to tell y'all in gods eyes where all the same so I don't feel sorry for him I do feel sorry for his family my brothers a cop he got jumped by 5 black guys he steal goes to work . And enforce the law right or black .he was not good If he's stealing

Winter Skye from Chicago, Illinois  

Posted: September 13th, 2014 12:07 PM

Terry, the problem is that you cannot control how other people feel towards you. As a woman, I cannot wait for all men to respect me and what other people think about me is none of my business. Opinions are nothing but projections from the other person, especially if they don't know you at all. If a White person is a racist, their racism reflects indoctrination, fear, anger (maybe a negative incident they have blown up to include all members of a particular group) and other subjective things. I listen to Al Sharpton's show every day and one thing I notice is how the callers often bring up racial incidents in their community. They keep saying "How long must we deal with this?" but their scope isn't much beyond perceived injustices. So they remain mired in the past and don't even see it. U do U! Anything else is a mistaken belief that you are dependent on acceptance from others to have a good life.

Brian Slowiak from Westchester  

Posted: September 12th, 2014 10:36 PM

driver to his hospital bed. Maybe to stop the madness, instead of talking about the madness would be to ask AG Eric Holder to reopen the case. Justice, fairness, madness or just talk.We can talk or we wish,Dean does. We all do.Anyone want to try action?

Brian Slowiak from Weastchester  

Posted: September 12th, 2014 10:30 PM

Terry Dean posts his opinion.That posting draws other opinions. But what do we do now. The Madness of an Oak Park police shooting an unarmed minority in our community drew the investigation of the Cook (CrooK) county States attorney. Part of that Office gave us Ed Hanarhan and The Black Panther Raid,killing two (Eddy was found guilty in federal Civil Court,no criminal charges),Jon Burge, Daley the First and his Homberg Athletic club and Rainbow Beach,DaleyII handcuffing the CTA bus

Mose from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: September 12th, 2014 5:53 PM

Terry, thanks for engaging in a dialogue with folks who posted on this forum in response to your column.

Terry Dean Wednesday Journal Employee

Posted: September 12th, 2014 3:11 PM

Oh, and what "benefits" do you speak of?

Terry Dean Wednesday Journal Employee

Posted: September 12th, 2014 3:10 PM

"Celebrate blackness"??? Would you like to expound on what that means from your perspective? And at what point in my column or comments here have I did this "simultaneous" juggling act you speak of? Thanks

Truth seeker  

Posted: September 11th, 2014 8:40 PM

Video of witness reaction. http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/10/us/ferguson-michael-brown-shooting-witnesses/

OPDad  

Posted: September 11th, 2014 5:56 PM

It seems to me that Terry Dean reflects the current status of many blacks who want to celebrate their blackness, and collect any benefits that come from being unique and a minority, while simultaneously deriding anyone who notices/points out negatives that go along with that "unique" status. You can't simultaneously ask people to applaud that you are different and then demonize them for pointing out negatives that are associated with status as different.

Terry Dean Wednesday Journal Employee

Posted: September 11th, 2014 3:40 PM

Agreed OP. Without question. But the tone, if there was one in the column, came from myself, a black man, and my own personal perspective and cultural experiences, which have merit and value, as it does for any other culture or ethnicity. And I don't necessarily couch that view, OP Transplant, solely based on the guilt or innocence of the victim. Anytime a black man is shot and killed by police, that is sad. Maybe not to other people, but to me. When a black man shoots and kills another black man, that is sad--to me. Again, people may see, or read into things that aren't there. If some people don't want to talk about race, culture or ethnicity in general, that's there prerogative. We don't live in a vacuum world or "Imaginationland." And as I stated before, I've also written about black men needing to be more responsible, more faithful to their wives or girlfriends, more involved in the kid's lives. etc. etc. Should I not write the word or talk specifically about "blacks" because such statements might offend some black people???

OP Transplant  

Posted: September 11th, 2014 3:14 PM

"...we can add him to the long list of unarmed black men and boys killed by police over the last decade or so..." Mr, Dean, if you weren't suggesting that the shooting was evidence of racism, why mention the word "black"? People of every race have been shot by police over the last decade of so.

OPDad  

Posted: September 11th, 2014 2:58 PM

Terry, are you really in a position to pass judgment on whether the store the kid visited was convenient or not? I mean have you actually been to that convenience store?

Terry Dean Wednesday Journal Employee

Posted: September 11th, 2014 2:52 PM

... If and when more facts come out, I'll reassess my point about the officer's actions. But based on what was released at that time and other witness accounts, I'll maintain what I wrote then.

Terry Dean Wednesday Journal Employee

Posted: September 11th, 2014 2:50 PM

The column is my opinion, whether my profession happens to be a journalist or not. But one thing I've learned as a journalist over these many years is this: people will see what they want to see and believe what they want to believe no matter what the facts are or truth is. I wrote nothing in this column about "white racism." But if that's what people want to see and believe, nothing I can do about that. And I didn't write anything about looting. When I write about such issues, I write very, very authoritatively--I don't suggest or beat-around-the-bush. The column was very, very clear, and very very fair, about the incident, Mike Brown's actions before the shooting, and the appropriate response of any police officer to use lethal force when his/her life is truly in danger--as I clearly wrote..."If Brown attacked the police, which is what the Ferguson Police Department says happened, then any cop has a right to defend himself, including using force, even if that force is lethal." But, as I also wrote, that didn't appear to be the case based on multiple witness accounts. And again, I wrote my opinion in a column, not reported on info gathered for a news article...

OP Transplant  

Posted: September 11th, 2014 2:33 PM

Mr. Dean-My observations are limited to the piece published above. I'm not questioning that you've written other pieces and published them elsewhere. You suggest that Brown's death is evidence of white racism. But, sometimes, white suspects are shot by police, without rioting and looting. And, often, black men are shot by other black men, without rioting and looting. What happened is Ferguson is rare, and I think that you, as a journalist, know that. Why suggest otherwise?

Terry Dean Wednesday Journal Employee

Posted: September 11th, 2014 2:32 PM

Lastly, in response to your request Winter Syke, we're not able to embed links in the comments section but can in main article/column section, which I've done here.

Terry Dean Wednesday Journal Employee

Posted: September 11th, 2014 2:12 PM

First off, while I love good dialogue, I promise --to myself and more importantly my editors--I will get back to work here at the job. Second, and primarily speaking for myself, I agree Uncommon, and I've made that point before (see accompanying column below). But how is solving our own problems, which we should, going to solve "white racism?, that is, those people who are racists against blacks? That's like asking women to stop "complaining about white male power structure" and only focus on bettering themselves. There's more women in the workplace, owning businesses, in political office, etc. etc. --and thank God for that. Does that therefore mean they aren't subject to discrimination, sexism or bigotry and should "stop complaining" about those issues????? I

Uncommon Sense  

Posted: September 11th, 2014 1:43 PM

complaining about white racism when if one truly looks at the black community, most of our ills are self inflicted and a result of victim hood propaganda. For me it, it is a matter of priorities. The 75% out of wedlock births, the poor school performance, glorification of street life, lack of economic empowerment, etc that really matter. If we are going to get mad, we have bigger issues to be mad about.

Uncommon Sense  

Posted: September 11th, 2014 1:39 PM

Terry, I think the criticism is 1) the tone of the article makes it seem as if there is an epidemic of black males being gunned down by police. There is no objective data to demonstrate this is the case 2) No one knows what exactly happened, yet instead of waiting for the incident to be properly investigated, we get demands for mob justice. My criticism is that too many journalist, pseudo intellectuals, and others spend an inordinate amount of time and ink...

Terry Dean Wednesday Journal Employee

Posted: September 11th, 2014 1:00 PM

For clarification, opinion columns and news articles are not the same, though people outside the news biz often make the confusion. Two, it is, in fact, a matter of context, because-- as common sense would dictate--several columns can be written about the same topic or related topics. To read one column and assume that the author has never written about other or similar topics is quite uninformed. Such claims have been made by some commentators here: "i.e. Why doesn't he [me] write about black on black issues." Answer: I have and, thus, I've added previous columns on this and related topics to give those who care to have it "context."

Brian Slowiak from Westchester  

Posted: September 11th, 2014 12:51 PM

this is not a issue of questions asked or context. This is a specific issue the 19 August article written by Terry Dean about police shooting unarmed minorities and the connection between Ferg/OP and the history of the OPPD shooting unarmed minorities. At the recent meeting I understand little if anything was said about OP history on the matter. this is not a issue of question or context,rather who,how and why frames the entire story.

Brian Slowiak from Westchester  

Posted: September 11th, 2014 12:42 PM

Terry Dean may have asked such questions. We all ask questions. The article written 19 August is on a specific topic, IE police shooting unarmed minorities, not black on black crime. The history of police shootings of unarmed minorities includes what happened in Oak Park. While a meeting was held in OP to discuss the Furgeson/OP connection, I can imagine little was said about what happened in Oak Park. It is not about questions asked, it is about who,how and why the question gets framed.

Terry Dean Wednesday Journal Employee

Posted: September 11th, 2014 12:31 PM

As a matter or context, here are two more past columns about this topic--in addition to what I provided in comment yesterday--that underscore my and other's concern about these issues. http://www.austinweeklynews.com/News/Articles/7-23-2013/It's-still-open-season-on-black-men-(and-women)-in-America/ http://www.austinweeklynews.com/News/Articles/4-11-2012/Seeing-beyond-the-hoodie/

Terry Dean Wednesday Journal Employee

Posted: September 11th, 2014 12:22 PM

I have asked such questions, in detail, previously OP Transplant. Read my comments from yesterday that includes source material. Both questions, in my mind, are worth asking and need to be asked--not just one or the other. Other people might not agree. They can choose sides and point fingers and find scapegoats if they choose to do so.

Bill Doogan  

Posted: September 11th, 2014 12:02 PM

Duty to Inform in IL's HB183 concealed carry bill gives police criminals legal cover for murder of black men. Are you armed? Hand over the gun- bang. He made a fast move, the officer defended himself. Case closed. Dead men tell no tales. How did this happen after NRA recruited black man Otis McDonald for their 2nd Amendment lawsuit? The Hick from Harrisburg Rep. Brandon Phelps put DTI in the bill because his pet rat traitor NRA lobbyist Todd Vandermyde cut a deal w/ the Chiefs of Police.

Brian Slowiak from Weastchester  

Posted: September 11th, 2014 11:38 AM

@ deflection; The Oak park Officer who shot and killed an unarmed minority never gave a public explanation

OP Transplant  

Posted: September 11th, 2014 10:20 AM

Mr. Dean's comments ("Damn, when will this madness ever end?") imply that young black men being shot by police is at some sort of epidemic level. The truth is that incidents of this type are rare. Explanatory context, which we might hope to see in an article written by a journalist, would note that when young black men are killed by guns, the shooter is much more likely to be another young black man or the victim himself. Mr. Dean might better ask when that madness will end.

Brian Slowiak from Westchester  

Posted: September 11th, 2014 9:11 AM

Why would Ofc. Wilson file a report? If Ofc. Wilson had a traffic accident w/the squad car, a second officer would have been called to the scene to make an investigation and complete a report. Checks and balances. Ofc. Wilson probably gave a statement.When asked to make a statement, the only refusal would be for time to obtain an attorney. Failure to make an ordered (under duress) statement results in termination. I am sure Ofc. Wilson made a statement,citizen access to that is limited.

deflection  

Posted: September 11th, 2014 8:22 AM

John Q -- you make a lot of good points but I am bothered by your assertion that Ofc Wilson owes no public explanation. Someone does. He is a public employee & entrusted with public safety. If he had filed a proper police report there might be fewer questions. It gives the appearance of a cover up. We have different versions from others said to be his account. It's part of my frustration that an unarmed young black man was shot and killed & no official explanation given.

John Q  

Posted: September 11th, 2014 4:21 AM

if you think Chicago doesn't have CAPS attendees who feel that they engage in dialogue and have a sense of belonging with cops I'd disagree. That does nothing however for the police hating criminals out there. You may not feel OPPD is hostile or aggressive on enforcement but I'll bet you haven't been arrested either. I think OPPD is a great dept but I know many of the criminals they lock up day and night wouldn't give as glowing reports simply because they locked them up...

John Q  

Posted: September 11th, 2014 4:17 AM

Mose, Ofc. Wilson not coming out and speaking is wise. You forget that he is a public employee and could be prohibited from speaking to the press regarding a work related incident. Even if not people don't really care what he thinks or says, they want to string him up and drag him through the streets. Don't expect that because he tells us, who he owes no explanation, what really happened that the public will believe him let alone accept it. I first got involved with CAPS shortly after its start

Brian Slowiak from Westchester  

Posted: September 10th, 2014 9:19 PM

@ Mose; When was the last time you heard dialogue about the Oak Park Police shooting an un armed minority?

Mose from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: September 10th, 2014 7:34 PM

Brian, I guess there are a lot of differences between the two communities. Having never been to Ferguson,Missouri, I cannot say if the residents and police actively engage in dialogue that might result in mutual understanding and cooperation. Oak Park has certainly devoted a lot of time and energy to make sure people are included and feel a sense of belonging. It hasn't always been successful but don't believe Oak Park police are viewed as being hostile or aggressive in terms of enforcement.

Winter Skye from Chicago, Illinois  

Posted: September 10th, 2014 6:31 PM

Terry, thank you for providing those articles and I will be glad to read them. Please try and get WJ to make links clickable so that it's easier to go to the article.

Brian Slowiak from Westchester  

Posted: September 10th, 2014 5:28 PM

This is not about black on black crime. This is about police officers shooting unarmed minorities, The contrast here is how one officer shot and killed an unarmed minority, and was welcomed back into the community and how one officer shot and killed a minority is being vilified. Is the WJ going to report on the meeting at the library about Fergueson and Oak Park connection.

deflection  

Posted: September 10th, 2014 5:25 PM

Thanks, Terry.

Terry Dean Wednesday Journal Employee

Posted: September 10th, 2014 5:25 PM

Another column about such crimes, and one giving a deeper analysis with solutions to the core problem. http://www.austinweeklynews.com/News/Articles/9-22-2010/One-more-thought-about-the-new-Black-KKK/ http://www.austinweeklynews.com/News/Articles/11-22-2006/A-positive-statement-for-the-brothers/

Terry Dean Wednesday Journal Employee

Posted: September 10th, 2014 5:07 PM

I have written columns about blacks committing crimes against one another. Just two examples here. http://www.austinweeklynews.com/News/Articles/10-1-2013/Our-community-elders-deserve-better/ http://www.austinweeklynews.com/News/Articles/6-2-2010/New-'KKK'-is-terrorizing-the-black-community/

deflection  

Posted: September 10th, 2014 4:53 PM

@reflection -- I wouldn't presume to know Reverend Jackson's intentions any more than I would presume to know Officer Wilson's. Terry Dean's column is about the police shooting and killing young, unarmed black men. Let's ask him to write about black on black crime next. Then those comments would not be out of place. More local efforts: http://cureviolence.org/the-model/about-us/ http://politics.suntimes.com/article/chicago/quinn-pfleger-lead-anti-violence-march-south-side/fri-07112014-918pm

Brian Slowiak from Westchester  

Posted: September 10th, 2014 4:42 PM

@ Mose: Wild Bill was called Wild Bill because he was wild Bill. My question is why did two completely different communities act completely different to a police shooting? Why did no outside sources come in to Oak Park and demand justice? What is the major difference between the shootings? look what the insiders did to control the Vannecko murder. Why isn't Oak Park talking about the difference? Is it possible that the two police officers are/were treated unfairly?

deflection  

Posted: September 10th, 2014 4:35 PM

Darren Wilson previously worked for a department that was disbanded because of racial tensions between the town's police force and residents. He then went to Ferguson where several years prior white police officers beat an unarmed black man and charged him for destruction of property for bleeding on the officer's uniforms. It's a bad history. The facts will end up disputed as Michael Brown can't testify, the police report, filed 10 days later, has no narrative, and Officer Wilson isn't talking.

reflection  

Posted: September 10th, 2014 4:30 PM

@defelction-Seems as though Rev Jackson is merely deflecting responsibility from the individual/local level to the feds. Jackson's take seems to be "someone else magically solve the problem with more money". With Jackson, it always seems to be some else's responsibility to resolve the ills of the AA community. The straw man in question resides in the mirror.

deflection  

Posted: September 10th, 2014 4:16 PM

Terry Dean's point continues to be deflected. He doesn't discount the issue of black on black crime but rather is alarmed that unarmed young black men are being shot and killed by police. Separate issues. As for leaders not attempting to address black on black crime: http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2014/07/09/rev-jackson-obama-feds-need-to-do-more-to-combat-chicago-violence/ Now can we let that straw man argument go?

Steve from Oak Park  

Posted: September 10th, 2014 3:29 PM

Just ask Patti.

Mose from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: September 10th, 2014 2:13 PM

Cynthia, I did a little internet research on William Kohenke and read Dan Haley's columns detailing his own experiences with Oak Park's former chief. Not sure if I would describe him as a "meat and potatoes" guy as much as a loose cannon. Controversy certainly seemed to follow him thoughout his career in law enforcement .

Bill Dwyer  

Posted: September 10th, 2014 1:36 PM

FYI- http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1988-05-30/news/8801030238_1_rental-van-foot-chase-rental-office

Bill Dwyer  

Posted: September 10th, 2014 1:22 PM

That was an African American officer involved, as I recall, Brian.

Cynthia M from lincoln Park  

Posted: September 10th, 2014 1:16 PM

Bill Kohenke WAS "Wild Bill" and he was a real "meat and potatoes" police chief. . But one morning at my Toad Hall B/B breakfast table--as were entertaining international guests-- we were totally gobsmacked when he led the conversation in perfect Russian. He was a fun guy.

Mose from Oak Park  

Posted: September 10th, 2014 10:48 AM

Brian, I remember Chief Kohenke. Wasn't he known as "Wild Bill" during his time in Oak Park? How did he earn that moniker and what the circumstances that resulted in him leaving the department?

Brian Slowiak from Westchester  

Posted: September 10th, 2014 10:19 AM

No riots. No looting. No outsiders. No DOJ. The Oak Park community was basically quiet.The Chief of Police did not change the Rules and Regs on rukes of engagement.The contrast and comparison to these two shootings is remarkable.

Brian Slowiak from Westchester  

Posted: September 10th, 2014 10:15 AM

The Oak Park Police shot and killed an unarmed minority possibly on 30 June, 1988. a five year veteran of the OPPD was involved in a chase w/ a stolen Uhaul on Roosevelt. A foot chase ensued and the perp cornered the officer, and threatened his life by advancing on the officer. The perp then grabbed the officers gun and puled the gun toward him causing the gun to discharge,striking him in the head. Kohenke, the chief at that time came out in the Chi. Trib to support his officer.

Mose from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: September 10th, 2014 9:38 AM

I did no such thing, Ray! A defense for Mike Brown was not offered. We still have not learned from the officer any of the details regarding this encounter. You have rushed to judgement without knowing all the facts. My response to Doug from Reno called into question the animosity of his comment. Referring to Brown as a "dirtbag" and claiming all "dirtbags go to hell" was offensive and for someone who cited scripture as support for his position ignored a promise Christ made to the good thief.

Ray Simpson from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: September 9th, 2014 11:51 PM

@ Mose This "Young Man" is about to ruin the career of a young cop who was doing his job. Seven years on the force and no reports of racial bias - in a community where he is a minority. Defend Michael Brown if you need but don't sacrifice a young man who was put in a difficult position and we must assume he did his best.

Mose from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: September 9th, 2014 11:14 PM

Not sure how things are in Reno, Doug but 18 year olds will often make mistakes and sometimes their poor choices do have life changing consequenses. The death of Mike Brown was tragedy for his family and friends. No desire to prove you wrong but do wonder why you need to express such animosity towards this young man?

Doug from Reno   

Posted: September 9th, 2014 9:54 PM

Well let's look at this from a parents view 1. Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 2. Honor your father and your mother. 3.You shall not steal. 4. All dirt bags go to hell He was not out going to church or looking for a job. He was high. It was in the report that his parents had done. Mabe if they were so involved with his life as they are now in his death he would not have died as a dirt bag. Prove me wrong. My kids are not knocking over liqure stores on pushing the owners over.

Winter Skye from Chicago, Illinois  

Posted: September 7th, 2014 11:01 AM

@Jay: Thank you for saying that. Truth be told, most people make assumptions based on whether someone says one thing against another poster. I am appalled that Terry Dean was allowed to pose in that picture like he was under attack from the police. He still has not addressed the much larger issue of male Black-on-Black violence and I doubt he ever will. Anyone who thinks it's a good idea to pose in such a disempowering way and to encourage his brethren to see themselves as such seems to have erroneous views on what is more of a threat to Black men in America. And there is no way for me to put any sense in his head regarding it. To wait around for others to see the light is to give others your power. Slavery used to be physical and now it's a mindset.

ted  

Posted: September 7th, 2014 9:03 AM

Why we always gotta call names

Phil from Ny  

Posted: September 6th, 2014 7:56 PM

Amazing how you write an article without knowing all the facts. What's more amazing is that from the time Trayvon Martin was shot till this incident 425 blacks were shot in Chicago by other blacks. You,Jessie Jackson, and Al Sharpton did nothing nor did you take the time to write anything! Maybe if you clowns focused your energy on the true problems there would be no problems. Remember educated black professionals don't ever seem to get shot, I wonder why?

John Q  

Posted: September 6th, 2014 5:33 AM

Mose, I read more than one piece that suggested it was a dog handler with St. Louis County Police and not a Ferguson cop. I say it to say this: small discrepancies cast great doubt to the credibility of your posts. That department is being investigated on a federal level. If you think their chief is dumb enough to order them to do controversial and unethical things right now, of all times, I would say that is highly unlikely. The feds will know how many times a day these guys fart by the end.

Ray Simpson from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: September 5th, 2014 9:54 PM

So many rumors - so few facts. Funny how the protesters have packed up and moved on. They may have gotten their 30 seconds of fame and know it. We have heard several positive stories out of this mess. The citizens cleaning up after the protesters. Citizens standing guard outside of businesses. Citizens helping store owners clean up after the looters. People are, for the most part, good and caring and should be a part of the story

Mose from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: September 5th, 2014 9:41 PM

Ray, it's my view that the police chief of Ferguson is either not in control of members of his department or they are acting on his orders. Unconfirmed reports that officers assigned to the canine units were allowing dogs to urinate on a public memorial were very disturbing as were those rumors that the KKK was planning to march. Hard to know what is factual or an attempt to stir emotions. Let the grand jury sort it all out and decide the appropriate course of action.

Ray Simpson from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: September 5th, 2014 6:20 PM

GG should read Grand Jury - - sorry

Ray Simpson from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: September 5th, 2014 6:19 PM

@ Mose it is very likely you will never know what the GG sees and will only know whether they decide to bind the officer over. I see it this way Mr Brown was leaving the scene of a felony and the police officer observed him acting strangely. The officer called mr Brown over and things went south from there. The procedures of the police dept was less than professional but probably a new experience for them. This is a good example of what happens when a small town police department encounters world class race baiters. .

Mose from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: September 5th, 2014 6:02 PM

Bill, my point is that there's a lot of misinformation that's been circulating without any confirmation by investigators. To know that the police chief lied about something like the video release calls into question what else have we heard/learned that might be untrue. I'm willing to wait until all the evidence is presented to and examined by the grand jury before reaching any conclusions. How about you or is your mind made up?

Bill Dwyer  

Posted: September 5th, 2014 5:41 PM

And, so, Moses, does that, if true, change what's on the tape? I.e., young Mr. Brown robbing a store and battering the clerk. What's your point? The guy's on tape committing a felony.

Mose from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: September 5th, 2014 4:18 PM

Ray, looks like the police chief lied about receiving FOIA requests for the convenience store video. The official report of that incident is now available online. Photo currently circulating on the web claims to show injuries suffered to the face of Officer Wilson. It's bogus! Lots of misinformation out there. Let's wait for the grand jury decision.

Jay   

Posted: September 5th, 2014 2:55 PM

@winter Hey man, you know what? Your right, I'm sorry. Gotta stop hitting these forums up late night. I'm a bit to opinionated, and need to shut my trap and learn to put myself in other people shoes. Peace, Jay

Winter Skye from Chicago, Illinois  

Posted: September 5th, 2014 1:24 PM

@Jay: You decided that I was against everything you wrote because I mentioned IT'S?! I said that because it never fails to amuse me when people calling others stupid online and write YOUR STOOPID. In any case, do you see how subjective you are and quick to jump to conclusions? You decided you knew everything about me based on one thing I wrote and you were utterly wrong.

Ray Simpson from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: September 5th, 2014 10:13 AM

Why have we heard so little from the Ferguson police Dept and city government? Could it be that they know they have the facts and the proof on their side and are also smart enough to know that if they exonerate the police officer all hell will break out again. Let the lack of ill intent of the police officer come out in the grand jury. The speed of allowing a grand jury hearing indicates to me that the city and its legal staff know what is there and are more afraid of race hucksters than legal liability.

Jay  

Posted: September 5th, 2014 5:29 AM

@Winter Sky, So you called me out on the use of the word "it's". Yet you don't really seem to have any reasonable argument, you mention guilt, who do you think feels the guiltiest? Why are white Americans from the south supposed to feel guilty about abiding the law and and agreeing that racial equality is important and essential? And if it was so bad, why did your race stay put? You all stayed and now run the south but yet your people still kill each other and are worse off than before.

Jay  

Posted: September 5th, 2014 5:12 AM

@Winter Sky, Y

Winter Skye from Chicago, Illinois  

Posted: September 4th, 2014 12:35 PM

@Terry Dean: Unfortunately, you choose to gravitate towards symbolism which is the exact opposite of empowerment. And for the record, statistics show that you would have a wayyyy greater chance of needing to put your hands up with another Black male versus a cop or White man. So maybe traipse through Austin and North Lawndale and put your hands up and say PLEASE DON'T SHOOT! I'M INNOCENT!!! Do you see how pathetic it is to be in such denial?

OP Transplant  

Posted: September 4th, 2014 12:31 PM

dan-I agree that it's very unlikely that a uniformed officer just decided one day to shoot a citizen for no reason in broad daylight in full view of numerous witnesses. The most unapologetic of self-avowed racist KKK members don't do that, but this police officer supposedly did. No one who is posting here knows what actually happened, but I'm not inclined to believe the least reasonable version of the events.

Winter Skye from Chicago, Illinois  

Posted: September 4th, 2014 12:31 PM

@Jay: And irony is using the word stupidity and then misusing ITS.

Bill Dwyer  

Posted: September 4th, 2014 12:21 PM

My my, Jhobe Brunkt. Yours must be a painful mind to be stuck in.

dan  

Posted: September 4th, 2014 11:53 AM

I think it's insane to believe that an officer of the law would gun down an unarmed man in broad daylight without cause- it just doesn't make sense. It's equally difficult to take the word of his friend. According to him: "Brown was first shot in the back", (when upon autopsy, that was found to be a lie). His friend, therefore, is no longer a credible witness. For the truth, release the juvenal records, and polygraph the officer and any witnesses, to maybe make some sense of this mess.

Mose from Oak Park  

Posted: September 3rd, 2014 11:21 PM

Jay, let's dig a little deeper and look at who is commiting the majority of violent crime in this country. By far, males are responsible for most of the murders, rapes, robberies and assault 80% vs. 20% by female offenders. Guys are overwhelmingly guilty of white collar crimes. Hate crimes too! Look at the gender of serial killers. Mostly felllas. Terrorists and hijackers? More than likely to be a man. Why are male so violent and corrupt and what is being done to protect society from them?

Jay  

Posted: September 3rd, 2014 10:42 PM

Almost everyone I know who has frequented, lived or worked downtown in my area has been mugged, beat up, harassed or worse by black people! Is it madness to protect yourself? If poverty is the mother of crime, stupidity is it's father.

Jay  

Posted: September 3rd, 2014 10:38 PM

Why is it madness now any white person shoots a black person? What about black on white crime I'm just guessing but I bet it's 500% higher than white on black crimes. I believe in statistics, regardless of the percentage of black on white crimes. Statistics show one out of three black males while end up or spend time in jail. The jails definitely need reform, but where I live the county is run by blacks, who are doing nothing for the 90% black majority living under their jurisdiction downtow.

Jhobe Brunkt from Baton Rouge  

Posted: August 30th, 2014 4:10 AM

May ! Everytime someone needs a BUCKET of Chicken, they need DRUG. drug ain't free ! chicken - you gotta kill with that watermelon.

In Glen Ellyn formerly from OP  

Posted: August 27th, 2014 1:27 AM

James- get off? He won't even be charged, can't be charged, because of the inconvenient detail of eh-vee-dense. In the US, evidence DOES matter. I say the cop's insurance company should sue M.Brown's parents for medical bills and suffering, and who's going to pay for all those police? The owners of the destroyed and looted businesses should be entitled to compensation from the M.Brown estate and parents for inciting a riot and breeding a bully.

In Glen Ellyn formerly from OP  

Posted: August 27th, 2014 1:16 AM

Mose, was that really you at 11:26? That post actually sounded human and factual.

Mose from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: August 26th, 2014 11:26 PM

Your "perps" attracted an officer's attention when he observed them walking in the middle of a street. The minor offense escalated in to a violent and deadly confrontation. Taking the life of an individual even in the line of duty often has a powerful emotional impact on a police officer. I'm sure this an experience that Officer Wilson will never forget. Most police officers never had to discharge their weapon in their careers. I don't believe Dr. Baden's autopsy cited any shots in the back.

Ray Simpson from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: August 26th, 2014 8:25 PM

The testimony of Browns friend about shots in the back is interesting because it is in his best interest not to connect the two events. If it is determined that the shooting happened as the two perps were fleeing the scene then the friend could have a felony murder charge slapped on him. I am sure his lawyer is trying to keep him quiet now.

James  

Posted: August 26th, 2014 6:38 PM

im tired of the race card bieng played and Jessie jackson and AL sarpten coming out of the wood work it is ridiculous. an officer has a right to defend himself whats going to decide the case is, would a reasonable person in this situation use deadly force, also let me add witnesses are notorious for distorting and misrepresenting the truth. i believe the officer has a good case and will probably get off.

Michel Gaddis from Medina  

Posted: August 26th, 2014 5:33 PM

I'm just wondering if Obama and Holder will be getting involved in the Utah case where the white unarmed teen was killed by the Non white ( Black ) officer....

Michael from Seattle  

Posted: August 26th, 2014 4:13 PM

Why do black people make a race issue out of these type of occurrences? Same week a black cop shot a white guy coming out of a 7-11 because he fit the description of a guy with a weapon. It was not the perp. He did not have a weapon but he shot and killed the innocent white guy with no weapon! He had not just robbed a mini mart and punched a cop! The the looting! Oh god the looting!! And the author of this article actually believes that the poor black community has been wronged? Just stop!!

Tracey from Fayetteville  

Posted: August 26th, 2014 2:20 PM

I will be so happy when this is all over, no matter what the outcome is. It is all sad, any death of any one, by anyone accidentally, or self preservation, it is sad. If you attack a police officer in ANY city they are armed to defend themselves, and if you try to take their gun, then you are the one taking your own life in your hands. Daughter of a police-officer my WHOLE 55 years.

In Glen Ellyn formerly from OP  

Posted: August 26th, 2014 9:30 AM

clarification- there was no reported injury within the squad car from the gun's discharge. I believe the officer's severe eye injury from the assault was made known after this article was published.

In Glen Ellyn formerly from OP  

Posted: August 26th, 2014 9:24 AM

Shame on you, Terry Dean for either following your boss' direction/example for providing inflamatory and misleading commentary for a relatively peaceful and diverse community or shame on you for taking it upon yourself to harm peaceful relations with this opinion piece for whatever reason. Be sure that your efforts in a professional position, though protected by law, have contributed to hurt relations, understanding, and sympathy between community and cops, and between white and black. So sad.

In Glen Ellyn formerly from OP  

Posted: August 26th, 2014 9:15 AM

ion 4) by witness accounts, both erroneous and otherwise, initial shots were fired at but without hitting the halted 18yr old 5) the apparently invincible 18 yr old is reported to have taunted the officer and rushes him 6) initial shots, several hitting him off center of mass, fail to deter the massive 6' 4" 18 yr old as the 35 foot 7) distance between them is quickly reduced to 3 ft with the 8) last shot hitting the falling body mass in the top of the head. Not shot for jwalking or being black.

In Glen Ellyn formerly from OP  

Posted: August 26th, 2014 8:57 AM

profile- 1) clear video evidence of 290 lb. 18 yr. old male, later known to have drugs in his system, stealing and intimidating with no weapon a store clerk when confronted 2) wide witness testimony of his pushing officer back into squad car and, with no weapon, assaulting the officer within it until the officer's weapon discharges with no injury to either person 3) he gets some distance away, apparently unharmed, having just "whipped the officer's butt" according to this story author's descript

Ray Simpson from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: August 26th, 2014 7:37 AM

In answer to Mr Deans question the problem will stop when black men quit killing other black men. Calls to 911 bring a cop and you do not get to "press one for a caucasian officer - press two for an African American officer - etc.-" Those calls put the police in danger and at a distinct disadvantage. There are 50 black on black murders for every 'cop shoots black man' incident. I would assume that the vast majority of black men shot by a cop were involved in some sort of illegal or violent activity. How many of those AA/Cop incidents involve a black cop? That information is never provided. If you are a small town (Ferguson) cop and you are a racist bully it takes less than seven years to become evident. I have seen NO former reporting of negative actions by the Furguson cop. I believe he got into a bad situation and fought his way out the only way he knew how. I also believe that given another choice he would have acted differently. We will never know.

Mose from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: August 25th, 2014 11:05 PM

Not a true fan of the Billo show but thought it was interesting that he would offer such an nasty evaluation of how the Ferguson Police department has handled their investigative duties. Strange that you chose to lecture me about not reaching any conclusions without facts after you stated that Mike Brown was a "thug" who "cold cocked the cop". "broke his eye socket" and "tried to take his gun". Sure seems like you weren't "waiting for the rest of of the facts to emerge". Who's sorry now, Bill?

Bill Dwyer  

Posted: August 25th, 2014 9:58 PM

Well, Moses, there you go. Bill Reilly has passed judgement on the Ferguson police department. So that defines your definition of legal conclusiveness now? So sorry for you. The FACT remains, some of the facts are out. Let's all try waiting for the rest of the facts to emerge, shall we? Unless you're really satisfied with Bill Reilly's conclusions here.

In Glen Ellyn formerly from OP  

Posted: August 25th, 2014 9:39 PM

Mose- I, too, wonder why M.Brown's body had lain in the street so long. Unfortunately, I questioned the source of the info, (local witnesses), more than the significance of the info. I lose, thanks to the varied local witness misrepresentations of other aspects of the situation. I really wish the locals had saved their rebellious self-riteousness for the mentally impaired AA who acted out the "suicide by cop" tragedy days later in St. Louis. I saw the vid- no 290 lbs of charging momentum there.

Mose from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: August 25th, 2014 9:08 PM

Grand jury findings are now not expected until October. Let's see if Ferguson Police did in fact conduct a fair investigation. Hard to explain or justify detectives not showing up on the scene for almost 1 hour and then ordering the corpse of Mike Brown to remain laying in the street in four hours. Lots of questions but the fact is the officer shot an unarmed man 6 times. Right wing icon Bill O'Reilly derided the Ferguson police as "keystone cops"

just the facts justified again from Philadelphia  

Posted: August 25th, 2014 3:42 PM

Fact..responses + protests have been made with out most facts that need to be gotten. Aka fair investigation. Hang him first mentality by many and our president. Did this huge unarmed man attack a police officer after video shows a violent crime he just committed. Byt...T.Martin (was bigger than Marvin Hagler ex middle weight champ.) Facts showed repeated slamming of George Zimmerman head while sitting on top against a concrete sidewalk (after he broke Zimmerman's nose) was shot right then.

spectator  

Posted: August 25th, 2014 12:44 PM

http://abcnews.go.com/US/chicago-police-found-guilty-covering-bartender-beating/story?id=17716840

Bill Dwyer  

Posted: August 25th, 2014 12:39 PM

The spokesman refers to the 'part that details Wilson's version of events.' That's his statement. There isn't a modern police department around that doesn't take an officer's statement after a major incident like the Brown shooting. And FWIW, news reports for more than week have been referring to certain witnesses whose versions of the event support Wilson's. So Wilson obviously has, in fact, made a statement.

Mose from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: August 25th, 2014 12:34 PM

A number of news outlets have reported that while Ferguson Police have a 16 page official report relating to the store incident, there has been no confirmation from Ferguson police that Officer Wilson has provided details or witness statements have been obtained. You are citing a St.Louis County spokesperson.

Bill Dwyer  

Posted: August 25th, 2014 12:24 PM

You're in error, Moses. In fact, Wilson has made a statement, but it's not being released. Big difference.--Time Magazine reports St. Louis County police department spokesman Brian Schellman, citing a 'pending investigation,' told TIME that 'the department does not intend to release the "investigative" component of the incident report, the part that details Wilson's version of events.' You serve no good purpose when you misstate the facts, Moses.

Bill Dwyer  

Posted: August 25th, 2014 12:16 PM

Where are you getting your facts from, Moses?

Mose from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: August 25th, 2014 11:05 AM

It goes both ways, Uncommon Sense. Police departments also have been found to protect officers who have committed crimes. You may recall a recent incident involving a drunk off duty cop beating up a female bartender. Investigators at the scene did not immediately arrest the attacker and allowed him to leave. Only after video of the incident surfaced did CPD take action and charges filed. Studies show officers wearing lapel cameras produce a significant decrease in brutality complaints.

Mose from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: August 25th, 2014 10:13 AM

Ferguson police department confirms a 16 page report was produced relating to incidents at the convenient store but that Officer Wilson has still not provided an official statement or filed an official report regarding the shooting the Mike Brown. The department also acknowledges that officers opened fire on a deranged man with a small steak knife within 15 seconds of arriving on the scene. Police did not attempt to calm down the suspect, disarm him peacefully or use less than deadly force.

Uncommon Sense  

Posted: August 25th, 2014 10:00 AM

The same people complaining about police releasing the MB robbery video are the same people who will cry and moan about all the crime in their hood and claim police don't care. Which one is it? The reason there is so much crime in the black community is because black folks protect the criminals and make excuses for anti-social behavior. How many times have we seen the mothers of known thugs claim they were a "good boy" despite a preponderance of evidence showing otherwise?

In Glen Ellyn formerly from OP  

Posted: August 25th, 2014 8:27 AM

If undermining the system of justice by bearing false witness, endeavoring to suppress evidence, or endeavoring to withhold the reporting of a crime that affects the public isn't a punishable crime under some category of "obstruction of justice", it should be. Sneaks, cheats, liars AND thieves should all face responsibilty for hurting the public safety and security.

In Glen Ellyn formerly from OP  

Posted: August 25th, 2014 7:59 AM

Somebody called the cops for the convenient store strong arm, of course, as should have happened, and the surveillance tape evidence was obtained by authories to identify the perp, as should have happened. We know the above two actions help defeat crime and privide justice. If you're related to the criminal in question and don't believe in defeating the criminal, well... we saw what happened... the system of justice is undermined and innocent people suffer. That is intent to obstruct justice.

John Q  

Posted: August 25th, 2014 2:32 AM

both incidents at the same time. Also, did the store manager ever say the police demanded the video? Again, people jump quickly onto a couple media prints and get misinformed. No the police cannot forcibly take the video from him but if you believe that he told them no and they took it anyway...well I don't.

John Q  

Posted: August 25th, 2014 2:30 AM

Beth Totten, don't believe the hype. Just because the owner says he did not call the police does not mean no one else called. I have a friend that works in law enforcement in St. Louis and she told me that when the incident happened she was out of town. A friend called her to tell her about the shooting and told her the guy that was shot had just robbed a store before it happened. She told me the media has outsiders thinking the information was not already known but she found out about...

In Glen Ellyn formerly from OP  

Posted: August 25th, 2014 1:23 AM

I do firmly believe that if the president had shown up after the first day or night of rioting, he could have saved a lot of destruction, ill-will, embarassment, and taxpayer cost. Way to represent the people, prez. Was he at another fundraiser or busy dealing with terrorists, promoting illegal drugs, or vacationing? I don't remember, he just might have been confused double speaking with Isreal, Russia, the Muslim Brotherhood/Hamas, or China. I really dislike missed opportunities of harmony.

In Glen Ellyn formerly from OP  

Posted: August 25th, 2014 1:08 AM

Before someone shoots me... do I believe what I just said is so simple and clear cut accurate, of course not, but I bet someone thinks I'm a racist now and may want to shoot me now in the name of justice. ha

In Glen Ellyn formerly from OP  

Posted: August 25th, 2014 1:04 AM

I love "hispanics", too. Replace the single issue of "justice" with "illegal immigration amnesty" and they voted 67% and 71% for Obama in '08 and '12, at 9% and 10% of gen population respectively. They're not too happy- they didn't get an Hispanic president nor the promised immigration reform. Single issue voting hurts.

In Glen Ellyn formerly from OP  

Posted: August 25th, 2014 12:53 AM

Some in the wider blk community see this embarrassing pair of facts but are afraid to speak up and be labeled as Uncle Tom's and "white" even by their families. I live with one (among other housemates). Kinda like how Obama got 95% & 93% of the AA vote when the general population gave him 53% & 51% of the vote respectively nationwide in '08 & '12. Is that 41% and 39% if AA segment (13%) is entirely removed? Justice my eye.

In Glen Ellyn formerly from OP  

Posted: August 25th, 2014 12:24 AM

The FACTS that the M.Brown parents called for nothing less than the murder conviction of the cop for action just after their son commited strong arm robbery before the investigation AND for suppression of the vid. evidence of their son committing the strong arm robbery is just embarassing for anyone claiming to want justice. The family is essentially saying TWICE that evidence doesn't matter. Amazing how fake and uneducated people can be. Get a dictionary and look up "justice", and "truth", too!

John  

Posted: August 24th, 2014 11:55 PM

I'm not even saying that the cop is definitely innocent, nor am I saying he's definitely guilty. I'm saying that the black community has made it their goal to paint the cop as a guilty racist murderer, and a symbol of how all white cops are racists, before all the evidence is in. Public perception has played such a huge role in allowing these riots to occur, and perception has been twisted on both sides. Brown is merely a political tool for people like Al Sharpton and JJ.

John  

Posted: August 24th, 2014 11:50 PM

to the crime. It's also relevant because Brown knowing that he robbed the store would act differently to the officer pulling him over, compared to if he had not committed a crime. Why are the show keepers denying the robbery? Because they don't want to be a victim from the backlash they would receive by siding against Brown, who has become somewhat of a martyr for the black community. Imagine how much hate they would get if their testimony leaded to the innocent verdict of the cop.

John  

Posted: August 24th, 2014 11:45 PM

beth, why does the family and lawyer get to try to spin public perception by painting Michael Brown as a harmless angle, and the cops are not allowed to show Brown (with video evidence) to be a violent individual? Cases are sometimes won or loss, due to the lack of evidence, but the characterization of the individuals involved in conjunction with what evidence is available, so I would say that releasing the video IS relevant to the situation, especially considering it was an event that lead up

Ray Simpson from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: August 24th, 2014 5:12 PM

I understand that the video was released under a state version of the FOIA and the police had no option!

beth totten from cambridge, new york  

Posted: August 24th, 2014 4:24 PM

The police chief did not have to release that video of the supposed strong arm robbery. He only released it because he was protecting the cop who shot the unarmed boy. What right do the cops have to go into stores and demand the tapes of that alleged robbery without a warrant. The owner said he didn't call the cops. Also that young girl they took her cell phone of the shooting without a warrant. That cop didn't seem to injured by the tapes. He should be arrested. Then let a jury decide his fate.

Spirited Debate  

Posted: August 23rd, 2014 7:06 PM

By the way, if you know anything about anthropology we are all Americans of African descent. Some more pigmented than others. Go back far enough in the family tree and Officer Wilson shot his cousin Mike Brown. Justifiable force, maybe, murder, maybe, I was not there. Either way a tragedy, ABSOLUTELY. None of the good upstanding citizens in Ferguson deserved this. And I'm guessing none of the cops wanted to be there but that was their assignment. The few who instigated, deserved the tear gas.

Spirited Debate  

Posted: August 23rd, 2014 6:56 PM

I just saw a debate between Juan Williams (filing in for Bill O'Reilly) and Jason Reily. Dr. Reily is an American of African decent and believes we wont heal the police/race divide until we recognize that police deal more often with violent black crime than white. Their (police) guard is up when encountering black youth because of this, just like our guard is up when we see a pants to the ground youth wearing gang colors. Unfortunately the black youths arent making it easier when they act up.

Grey Island  

Posted: August 23rd, 2014 6:25 PM

because they are considered "privileged", and don't have a history of being persecuted for their color, so in this day and age, being persecuted through "street justice", whether warranted or not, is more socially acceptable than the reverse. Today, a black mob stomping on a white guys head is an awful crime, but a white mob stomping on a black guys head is a horrific act of racism.

In Glen Ellyn formerly from OP  

Posted: August 23rd, 2014 6:21 PM

Ray- lol @ Glen and the 3%ers. I cried myself to sleep (nap) wondering what I did wrong.

Grey Island  

Posted: August 23rd, 2014 6:21 PM

Bill, I was merely going by what was reported in the WJ. Maybe I should be pulling facts from other places instead, but yes I agree that the facts need to be presented? However, the idea that black on white crime gets a pass as being less note worth of public outrage, is still an issue. I'd imagine that if white people went out in the streets to protest these crimes, they would be branded as "bigots", "KKK", "racists" etc? Whites are not allowed to talk about black on white crimes as racism

Bill Dwyer  

Posted: August 23rd, 2014 6:10 PM

Easy, Grey Island. I covered the Alton Hayes case several years ago, and I recall the police disc outing that alleged comment. Agree with your concerns, but I'd advise staying on the factual straight and narrow.

Grey Island  

Posted: August 23rd, 2014 5:55 PM

What about the game "knock out" where groups of black go around dropping white people, not limited to adult, but also women and old folk? If this was reversed where white people were going around in flash mobs assaulting blacks, it would be a national sensation, call as national disgrace, acts of racism, and there would be protesting, rioting and looting in the street. When whites are the victims of these hate crimes, nothing happens. So are the blacks going to admit this double standard? No!

Grey Island  

Posted: August 23rd, 2014 5:51 PM

are blacks. If you commit a crime, you obviously have a much higher chance of having a run in with a cop, it's that simple. Also, blacks complain about unfair treatment against them due to their skin color, and say no one else has to deal with it, ignoring the violent black on white crimes that have been happening in recent years. What about the flash mobs of blacks that were targeting lone white people? What abut those 2 blacks in Oak Park that attacks a white saying "this is for Trayvon"?

Grey Island  

Posted: August 23rd, 2014 5:46 PM

You talk about the "long list of unarmed black men and boys killed by police over the last decade" as some sort of racist agenda the police all over the US, but lets see all the specifics of those incidents. How many were straight up police "murders"? Were they in the heat of a struggle? What were the circumstances? The black community often complains about how blacks are subjected unequal arrests, but never talk about the fact that (at least in Chicago) the majority of people committing crimes

Grey Island  

Posted: August 23rd, 2014 5:41 PM

was at a lowered angle, which could or could not have indicated that he was rushing the cop, but does say that he had to have been at close range to receive those shots. You make it out like the cop was punishing Brown for the robbery, but there is no evidence to suggest the cop knew he robbed etc. So many people have already decided Wilson to be guilty before the evidence was even in, and like you, I doubt their minds will be changed even if the evidence shows the cop to be innocent.

Funny Name  

Posted: August 23rd, 2014 5:41 PM

@Hugh Janus, clever name.

Grey Island  

Posted: August 23rd, 2014 5:38 PM

Terry Dean, talk about cherry picking your "facts". You, like some many others, have taken part of the "evidence" and "witness accounts" and made your own recipe of a story to back up your personal assumptions and obvious biases. You say the "witnesses" saw him with his hands up. Well "witnesses" also said he was shot in the back, which has now been contradicted by the autopsy report. You use Brown's getting shot in the face as "evidence" of the cops guilt, yet fail to mention that his head

Ray Simpson from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: August 23rd, 2014 5:31 PM

@ Jorge - those rubber bullets turned out to be ear plugs that someone dropped. A couple dozen cops with tear gas can make several hundred looters and rioters wand to be any where else and doing anything else as well.

Grey Island  

Posted: August 23rd, 2014 5:30 PM

Unarmed white guy was shot to death buy black cop in Utah. Unarmed white guy was shot to death in Dallas. Where's the outrage? Where the rioting? Where's the looting? Where's race card? The black community and the mainstream media portray these crimes as some kind of crusade against blacks, but when they happen to white people (which they do), or some other race, it suddenly doesn't hold the same significance. Talk about a double standard.

Bill Dwyer  

Posted: August 23rd, 2014 5:14 PM

What 'two cops,' Jorge? There was just one cop who shot Brown. After the thug cold cocked him and broke his eye socket and tried to take his gun.

Jorge  

Posted: August 23rd, 2014 5:10 PM

Another thing that I wanted to mention is that the police in Ferguson were shooting tear gas at the press as well as physically assaulting those in the press and arresting them for no reason. Jay how do you justify that? They also shot rubber bullets at a white female pastor who was demonstrating peacefully. Was this the police "protecting" us?

Jorge  

Posted: August 23rd, 2014 5:06 PM

Jay, if they were two black cops shooting a white kid those cops would either have been arrested and put in prison or killed. That is the truth. It is because Darren Wilson is white and Michael Brown is black that Darren had it not been for the media would have probably received another medal. Can you imagine if we didn't have the media or cell phones that take vids? This would have been a non event.

Ray Simpson from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: August 23rd, 2014 5:00 PM

@ Glen I did not intend to use the "and" to include you - sorry

Ray Simpson from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: August 23rd, 2014 1:26 PM

@ Glen and the 3%'rs have always ruined it for everyone.

In Glen Ellyn formerly from OP  

Posted: August 23rd, 2014 1:16 PM

yup. Or we can just be honest and fair with one another. The former takes a huge amount of material resources (money, man-hours, etc.) to control us; the latter takes a huge amount of mental resources (reason, logic, patience, cooperation, understanding, memory, adaptability, etc) to control ourselves. Which is cheaper? Which is easier? Control ourselves or be controlled? Rule ourselves or be ruled? Live free or die.

Ray Simpson from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: August 23rd, 2014 12:30 PM

@ Glen - to do that our society has set up rules of behavior and this bunch of looters and race baiters refuse to live within those parameters. That is why we allow police to carry guns and use them when necessary. The cop was enforcing our rules and was defending us! To find this police officer guilty of anything, we need to prove that he intended to kill the kid. He may have made a mistake and over reacted and I am sure he will be willing to explain what happened. The witness has proven to have distorted the facts to the point of filling a false report ( a felony) What Sharpton et al want is a rigged jury that will excuse anti-social behavior by condemning the peace keeper. Cops do work that we choose not to do and get very little community support.

In Glen Ellyn formerly from OP  

Posted: August 23rd, 2014 10:24 AM

We have to choose to care for ourselves.

In Glen Ellyn formerly from OP  

Posted: August 23rd, 2014 10:17 AM

hmmm, perhaps bad choice of words because I don't mean to have us arm ourselves with guns to use against eachother for control. To police eachother would mean to mediate our discontent for the sake of understanding and peaceful resolution, peace and stability even if everyone's expectations aren't perfectly satisfied. Thank goodness we have that option in this country more than probably anywhere else. What a waste when we don't choose that option. We have to care for eachother. Better?

In Glen Ellyn formerly from OP  

Posted: August 23rd, 2014 10:05 AM

We have to police ourselves.

In Glen Ellyn formerly from OP  

Posted: August 23rd, 2014 9:53 AM

Many newsmaking incidents of black on black, black on white, and even white on black violence are more questionable, potentially more controversial than the Ferguson incident, including, IMO, the St.Louis shooting just a few miles and days removed from the Ferguson one, that did NOT invoke rioting. Some people in Ferguson chose to be offended and even feel justified to be violently destructive. Obama could have chosen to rebuke these self-imposed and divisive choices before so much waste. FAIL.

Ray Simpson from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: August 23rd, 2014 9:16 AM

would there have been any outrage or comment by Mr Dean, or anyone had the kid been white and the cop black? I venture not. We are now learning that Al Sharpton is Obamas eyes and ears in Furguson. Does anyone find that appalling?

wade from crestline   

Posted: August 22nd, 2014 6:22 PM

look at the facts, that black kid deserved to die, he attacked a police officer after robbing a liquor store! the white kid that a black cop shot was unarmed, did not attack a cop, and didnt just rob a store. i hope that black cop gets death!

Ray Simpson from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 9:00 PM

@ Mose - you seem fixated upon pigmentation and cannot see beyond that first eighth of an inch of skin. That my friend is racism! This situation in Ferguson is being manipulated by the race baiting hucksters who make a living promoting hatred. You have set yourself up as a voice for their dishonesty. No one here has given the cop a pass, likewise we are not calling for his conviction. The facts will tell all - if DOJ doesn't muck it up by demanding "social justice" You might convince people if you could show any incident where this cop has abused or shown disrespect for any black in his town. If that was the situation it would be all over the demonstrators signs and mindless chants. There is no proof that there was any racial component to this unfortunate situation.

In Glen Ellyn formerly from OP  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 8:11 PM

Ray- hilarious situation looking back. Gotta luv the irony. MOSE- your hypothetical really occurred in Ferguson: M Brown's family demanded that the officer be convicted before the shooting evidence was gathered, even denying that the evidence that their 300 LB 6'4" "child" had just robbed the nearby store mattered. In fact, they were upset that the damaging character evidence was even made public, that it was used to damage their son's character. Duh! What a ridiculous sentence, but true!!

Mose from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 8:02 PM

It's hard to find humor in a KKK cross burning, Mr. Simpson. Your grandfather may have decided to just laugh it off but doubt the families of lynching victims ever forgot the brutality and horror they experienced. Still wondering why you and Josh seem so intent to rush to judgement? Don't both Officer Wilson and Mike Brown deserve a fair hearing of the evidence? The prosecutor will provide the grand jury with facts and they will determine if charges are warranted. Allow the process to work.

Dwyer  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 7:03 PM

That's a really pathetic response, Typical. I'm sure you believe you're right. Yet you can't- or won't- explain WHY you believe you're right? You're not willing to explain your thinking. Really? That would make YOU the problem on these boards, Typical, not those of us willing to actually engage in detailed debate. I'm genuinely weary of folks who can't support their opinions on these boards, and who don't have the guts to deal with differences of opinion in a detailed, specific manner.

Ray Simpson from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 7:01 PM

@ Mose - please do not speak to me about the KKK. My grandfather was a European immigrant who had a cross burned on his front lawn because his english was not so good. He laughed about it because he owned the laundry/dry cleaning plant in their town and he knew that half of the cowards beneath the sheets took a paycheck from him every week ( During the depression) and that most of the sheets would come to him for cleaning.

Mose from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 6:42 PM

The KKK is in your corner Mr. Simpson and Josh from Oak Park. A Missouri chapter of the Ku Klux Klan is planning a fundraiser this weekend for Ferguson police Darren Wilson. They too have already decided that the shooting of Mike Brown was justifiable. No need for them or apparently you fellas to hear the actual evidence that the prosecutor will be presenting to a grand jury. Just go with news reports based on leaks. Case closed!

JOHN MURTAGH from op  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 4:45 PM

Salvation Army, Maybe. Catholic Church, No Way. Have you checked its balance sheet lately?

Joe from OP  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 4:16 PM

@Typical = Name Caller. Because, after all, ad hominem attacks are the easiest tactic in debate/discourse one can use!

Typical  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 4:05 PM

Uncommon and Dwyer, I have no desire to engage when so many of these comments violate WJ's own Comment Policy. It's simply not worth trying to have a thoughtful discussion. I am, however, interested in knowing why WJ allows this to continue. It's awesome they published Terry's piece. It's right on. But don't publish it if you're not willing to get the inevitable flow of bigotry under control that you know will come from the other direction. Give us the option to turn comments off. Something.

Adam Smith  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 4:00 PM

@Typical is Terry Dean. I recognize the writing style.

Uncommon Sense  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 3:53 PM

@Typical, you say you like to debate, but you have yet to offer a single counterpoint or attempt to deconstruct someone's position you disagree with beyond claiming people are racist.

Dwyer  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 3:48 PM

Still can't be specific, can you, Typical? Can't give even a single example?

Typical  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 3:40 PM

Spirited Debate, you ever go in a coffee shop where there are a bunch of grumpy old guys sitting at the counter? You just want a muffin and you have to listen to their moronic views. But you get to go back outside and pick a different coffee shop tomorrow. One that doesn't have racists sitting at the counter. The grumpy racists at the counter = Wednesday Journal usually. I'm not the thought police. I like debate. But WJ could find a better way to allow that so it's not a constant stream of BS.

Jane from Oak Park  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 3:37 PM

I find it interesting that this same article is available on the Austin Weekly website and there are zero comments posted the last time I checked. Must be the people who read that website are busy working and improving themselves instead of trying to prove to others how tolerant or indignant they are.

Josh from Oak Park  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 3:19 PM

@Ray: You're wasting your breath with Mose on that one. I tried to tell him that the other day in another thread, even supplying a link to Brown's accomplice admitting through his lawyer that they took place in the strong-arm robbery. Even though that is about as first hand when it comes to knowledge as you can get, he still insists it's hearsay. LOL...

Daisy Aura  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 2:53 PM

John The reason that black people were grouped together with in High Rises is not because they were black it was because most of them would have been living on the street if it were not for free public housing. you could be white/mexican/oriental/ mixed breed - the thing they have in common is that they are broke. Beggars cant be choosers is how the saying goes

Ray Simpson from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 2:52 PM

@ John Murtah - how about turning HUD over to churches and private charities? Let the Salvation Army show us how to get 100 cents for every dollar and salvage lives rather than doom them.

Ray Simpson from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 2:47 PM

@ Mose - the young man who was with Mike Brown has admitted that they did do the convenience store. He may not have been convicted but watching the security tape gave me enough proof to claim that he was involved in a felony. His roughing up the owner made ham a thug as well!

JOHN MURTAGH from op  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 2:46 PM

The Ferguson incident is not an incident. It is a tragedy caused by neglect. For more than forty years, the FED has micro-managed lives to attain its view of Fair Housing. From the Co-ops in New York to the hi-rises of Chicago, the faulty vision of HUD led to 100% segregation (black segregation) that destroyed millions of lives. Ferguson is the focal of failure. It is not alone. HUD needs a major overhaul starting with less staff, less salaries, and less pontificating.

Spirited Debate is Healthy  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 2:42 PM

What I find silly is when the Thought Police such as Typical chime in and try to silence anyone with an opinion he/she doesn't like by suggesting that some vague unidentified collection of superior people turn up their noses ("openly mock" to use Typical's words) the discussion here. Who cares?

chris from Oakland  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 2:35 PM

Really another reporter trying to incite racial divide.. reread the autopsy. . It said his arms were not raised .. and the last I checked assault and battery is a crime.. you go lick your wounds but if someone assaults me and then bum rushes me I'm going to protect myself. .. funny your report doesn't mention anything about the recent shootings of unarmed white men by black cops or black cops killing black men.. it seem if it is unjust then why mention color.. cop shoots another unarmed citizen.

Smarty Pants  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 2:13 PM

@Hugh - I would bet significant odds that Winter Skye is our beloved VA.

Hugh Janus  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 2:05 PM

Uncommon - even though I probably got rejected from Yale because of your admittance through affirmative action, you are a real cool cat. Does anyone know what happened to Violet Aura - i miss her

Mose from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 2:03 PM

Excuse me, Mr. Simpson. Where did you get the information that Mike Brown was a felon? I recall reading that he no prior criminal record. Are you passing judgement without knowing all the facts? Trust you are not going with details that have been leaked to the press. The prosecutor has yet to present any evidence for a grand jury to decide whether the shooting was justified. Seems reckless and careless to assign blame prior to learning the facts.

Typical  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 1:53 PM

Ray, believe me there are other outlets for discussing this current event...not many with OPers. That would be the nice angle here. But WJ consistently allows a few to monopolize the conversation with their twisted worldview. And why would anybody want to add to that one-sided discussion if there are other outlets? It gets frustrating seeing story after story of community news with 50 comments of negativity, racism, baiting, etc. Which is why it's the same people always. WJ needs to step in.

In Glen Ellyn formerly from OP  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 1:42 PM

Hugh, etc- How can you (do whatever and) not be racist? Avoid the labeling and appreciate the good deeds when you see them done by "those people". Remember our commonalities. We know how to argue and separate from even family members for stupid reasons that we don't call racism, so we need to be careful not to attribute the same types of disagreements to race differences when it's just an easy knee-jerk thing to do.

OP Transplant  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 1:36 PM

Uncommon - I'm not sure you're allowed to identify yourself as black. "Typical" will need to vet your beliefs about society and race, and then decide if you're black. You can get in a lot of trouble for having opinions that haven't been approved by paternalistic white progressives!

Uncommon Sense  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 1:29 PM

Hugh, ebola was created by the racist white new world order to control the black population in Africa. You need to keep up on these things.

Hugh Janus from Oak Park  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 1:09 PM

Next thing I expect to hear is that us white folk will be blamed for the Ebola Virus. How can you watch the news and not be racist.

Uncommon Sense  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 12:53 PM

I'm a 40something educated black man. HBCU undergrad. IVY MBA. I've been the "only one" in a sea of white faces more times than I can count. Yet, I don't ever recall being called the N word or other derogatory terms. Yet, I've lost count of the times I've been called Uncle Tom, Sellout, Corny, Oreo, etc for choosing to buck the victimization narrative. Not too mention pandering white progressives calling me a racist.

Uncommon Sense  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 12:47 PM

@Joe, opposing viewpoints are drowned out in the community. Consider how much Bill Cosby was excoriated and he is a guy who has done more for the black community on a weekend than many of these hucksters will do in a lifetime. Gave $20 million to Spelman College. Created positive images of black families when there were none. Now imagine your everyday black guy deciding to get off the victimization plantation.

Ray Simpson from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 12:39 PM

@ Typical - what do you want to discuss about Ferguson? How evil the police are? How brave the imported hate mongers and looters are? What an angelic child the 300 pound felon was? You are seeing a cross section of ideas and opinions here and you might not like what you see but no one is preventing you from stating your case. Most of the racist narrative is coming from the liberal left

Typical  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 12:25 PM

I'm less concerned about the racist posts. More concerned that WJ could do more to create a welcoming (moderated?) place for OP to discuss Ferguson? (Or anything else for that matter.) I'm wondering how many frequent posters here know this comments section is openly mocked in outside community discussions...for being crazy! Instead of what everybody is talking about elsewhere...that we'd like to chat with neighbors about...we come here only to read this train wreck. WJ it doesn't help you grow.

OP Transplant  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 12:12 PM

Typical - The idea that all bad outcomes experienced by white people can be attributed to their own personal failings, but all bad outcomes by black people are caused by racism, is simply nonsensical. Any 300-lb. man who fights a police officer is likely to get shot. The officer doesn't say, "I'll shoot this guy because he's black, but I'd let him beat the hell out of me if he were white."

Ebony  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 12:10 PM

(cont) how do you think the media would portray a tea party rally that lasted for weeks, all while physically attacking any one that dare speak a differing opinion, burning down businesses? We both know the answer, but I am curious as to whether you have the ability to see reality.

Ebondy  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 12:08 PM

Typical - what about the not-so-subtle racist portrayals by the media? You haven't heard much about the angry mob that chased that "white b**tch" supporting Officer Wilson last night. The cops have been letting animals run riot through the city for nearly two weeks...burning down businesses, shooting guns, attacking cops, etc. Yet 2 white people show support for the officer that was attacked, and they are forced to leave the area. Also... (cont)

Dwyer  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 11:34 AM

Typical, your criticism is, unfortunately, 'typical' of the vague criticisms you so often read here. 'not-so-subtle racist views here'? Such as? Ignorant? In what way? You sound indignant. Care to tell us about what, exactly?

Ray Simpson from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 11:32 AM

@ Typical - a rather strong indictment of fellow citizens views. What, specifically, do you find wrong? The facts of Furguson are one sided and slanted toward the opinion that the cop was wrong. Prove it or be quiet. AG Holder just stated that the anti cop forces were right and he is on their side. How is that justice?

Typical  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 11:08 AM

Gotta love the typical "wacky" WJ comments section. I hope anyone stumbling on this thread understands that the not-so-subtle racist views here, thankfully, don't represent the views of most (or even many) Oak Parkers. I'm thankful most Americans recognize what's going on Ferguson as the wakeup call it is. Some of these statements are truly disgusting. Your right to say them. But so, so ignorant. Of course, a few of you think you're being cute. It's not. It's offensive.

Joe from OP  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 10:59 AM

Also, we should make no mistake that this same sentiment -- that both sides of the story are not covered equally and that this is cause for frustration or worse-- is felt by many just below the surface in our precious hamlet of OP.

Joe from OP  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 10:52 AM

If @Glen Ellyn is saying that frankly stating what @OPT said has been said all along by many influential voices, I would disagree. I think influential voices like Bill Cosby and Stevie Wonder who have, for better or worse, more "moral authority" by virtue of their skin color are few and far between -- that's why the small handful are the same examples trotted out again and again.

In Glen Ellyn formerly from Op  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 10:42 AM

While we're expressing our disdain for the false white bogeyman and black grievance industry, from our perspective here near Chicago and from successfully integrated and relatively peaceful middle and upper middle class suburbs, we must still honestly advocate against discrimination and violent profiling elsewhere in the country where it still exists and stand up for people who can't themselves. We can effectively do more from our comfortable settings than they can backed in their corners.

In Glen Ellyn formerly from OP  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 10:27 AM

I guess it has to become fashionable and cool to be honest, fair, understanding, and take personal responsibility for one's own actions and influence unto others. We've had frank voices of reason and commentary, as well as of mutual and self respect for decades by famous individuals of all colors... two successful, uncorruptable non-white entertainers come to mind: Stevie Wonder and Bill Cosby. We know there are others, and even wise family or community elders that we need to remember and heed.

Uncommon Sense  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 10:25 AM

Further, there is an entire black grievance industry that is invested in this narrative. You have pseudo scholars like Michael Dyson, politicians, attorneys, and the typical Revrunds all profiting from convincing the everyday black man all his woes are because of white folks. Not too mention the complicit white progressive politicians who support this nonsense for political votes. Meanwhile the black community burns from within...

Uncommon Sense  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 10:20 AM

OPT hit the nail on the head. Black folks have been conditioned to believe there is this evil white boogeyman out to get them. Part of the reason is that many of the folks who suffered under segregation. Many don't want to believe things aren't like they used to be... this is why I said the civil rights movement in some ways was too successful in that many can't get over that there is no longer a white racist boogeyman that is a factor in their lives.

Joe from OP  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 9:50 AM

@OP Transplant, your comments are striking both because they are so politically incorrect AND because there may be more than a grain of truth to them -- and therefore worth considering. I'm afraid however that 99% of the time people just don't want to acknowledge this. Thanks for having the courage to at least state your point.

In Glen Ellyn formerly from OP  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 9:50 AM

Witnesses can lie, leaders can hide, media can misdirect and mislead, but unedited and unstaged video typically doesn't lie. Seeing how lives, careers, places, and neighborhoods can be easily and violently ruined by deceit, makes me want to wear 360 degree recording cameras on myself during every waking moment, maybe even while sleeping! Invest your money in body cameras- that business will boom very soon among police authorities and should among civilians, too, I think. False testimony sux.

OP Transplant  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 9:41 AM

Many Americans who are not white (and I include many of my own people) are conditioned to automatically conclude that if something bad happens to them, it's the result of racism. This mind-set keeps them from exploring how their own actions may have resulted in the negative outcome. Their lives become a series of self-destructive acts, bad outcomes, and efforts to blame others. So, since they never feel compelled to change their own behavior, their lives never improve.

Joe from OP  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 9:17 AM

Has anyone noticed the similarity between the response of the folks in Ferguson who obscured the details of the assault on the cop and the response of the kids stuck in Bali who complained about the food they got in prison as if it were a civil rights issue?

OPDad  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 9:12 AM

Let's see - media blowing a white on black crime out of proportion. Is it an election year? Oh year, it is.

In Glen Ellyn formerly from OP  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 9:03 AM

Ray- you may have noticed this in life, too, how adult children of a strongly opinionated parent often don't share the same views, sometimes being embarassed by the one-track fervor developed and spewed by their parent before the children reached adulthood. When the strongly opinionated don't find unconditional support among friends and family, who are culturally and socially closest, often alienating them in their self-riteousness, they seek and find an audience elsewhere.

Ray Simpson from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 8:43 AM

Editor Ken Trainor has told us , in the past, that his son is a police officer. It would be interesting to get his opinion as a dad who probably believes that the protesters are correct. That should be a tap dance of the year!

member of society  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 8:25 AM

"Innocent" and "victim" do not apply here; let's start there. If he doesn't commit strong armed robbery, hit a cop and/or resist arrest he would be alive. Responsibility is a two way street. If a drunk driver kills you while you drive the wrong way down a one way street who is to blame? Looting and violent protests are an absurd reaction as well. How can the "protesters" expect to be taken seriously?

Uncommon Sense  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 8:21 AM

Meanwhile back in the real world, a 9 year old black kid was shot and killed last night. No Messy Jackson, No Al Sharptongue, No New Black Minstrels. No wussy Chris Hayes and other MSNBC white libs talking about how they can relate to black angst. No Parks and Crump yelling for justice. No Attorney General flying in on AF1. The hypocrisy and selective outrage is just too rich for words.

Ray Simpson from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 8:01 AM

FOX News did a couple minute piece on the citizens of Ferguson who clean up after the protesters. White, black, brown and yellow skinned Americans working side by side to bag and dispose of the crap left by the hooligans the previous night. Which group respects their community more - from my perspective these are the patriots.

Ray Simpson from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 7:47 AM

Juan Williams, liberal and black, offered an interesting observation. Black men in the inner city often settle disputes with violence. The way they win is when the other guy is dead. Cops sent to stop the violence, doing their job, are many times white. I sure wouldn't want to be put in their shoes. The police officers trump card is the ability to use his gun to defend himself and others. The paper work for discharging a weapon is excessive, I understand, and injuring or killing someone multiplies it by magnitudes. Every officer who works high crime areas knows the rules of the road and do a pretty god job of keeping law and order. Those who harbor racial hatred cannot hide it for long and are soon convinced to assume other work. BTW three cheers for the good citizens who are up at dawn cleaning up their community. They are the real heros of this whole story.

In Glen Ellyn formerly from OP  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 7:34 AM

Ray- he just jumped on the bandwagon or he was instructed to stir things up for the sake of debate. He may not even be at liberty to apologize for fueling discontent and dishonesty. Seriously, prison time for a box of cigars? The trick of acceding to the camp of opposing sentiments some feigned sympathy in the intro. paragraph doesn't make up for the remaining bulk of harmful misinformation and misdirection. What a waste of opportunity for good will among ALL people.

In Glen Ellyn formerly from OP  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 7:22 AM

And lastly, pres. Osama should have been front and center after the first night of violence to quell this snowballing discontent and irrational pursuit of single-minded false justice. He totally failed, not just the white-folk that put him in office and want good "race" relations (and who will likely foot the bills), but the others who likely won't even feel embarrassed or shame for being so wrong. The pres. missed yet another opportunity to be OUR President. How brave to send Att. Gen. so late.

Ray Simpson from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 7:17 AM

How can Mr Dean claim that most of the black men killed by cops committed no crime? I have seen no proof that that statement is even close to true. He states it as a fact, which he may believe. It may be true that many of those who died were never convicted but that is just an issue of timing True to Wednesday Journal tradition heartfelt opinions can always be assumed to be true.

In Glen Ellyn formerly from OP  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 7:11 AM

This is the real world, not some fantasy world where words and actions don't have consequences. Who pays for the damages at the hands of looters emboldened by the self-riteous liars insisting on playing victim? Who pays for all the police man-hours required to keep the peace? The turmoil was solely caused by the willful unfair response of the protesters in denial of future investigations, originating from the Brown family lawyer and family's insistence only of the cop's conviction for "justice".

In Glen Ellyn formerly from OP  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 7:02 AM

The Ferguson protesters' willful denials have set back "race relations". Also, the folks there need to be held accountable so this b.s. doesn't happen so easily again, not to mention it would be fair in the name of justice that they so loudly demanded. The family of "child" M. Brown should be sued for the serious injuries to the officer. The town should be sued for the damages to the businesses and for the costs of the innumerable responding officers. No free pass for this lying nonsense.

Marilou Heinz from Irvine  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 1:25 AM

There are probably twelve witnesses that saw what really happened and whether he was unarmed or not he assaulted the officer and he charged him thus causing him to be shot repeatedly when he kept coming. He had no way of know he was unarmed. That is a racial excuse. This was seen and the black community asked the last video be taken down. Go figure.

Ray Simpson from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: August 20th, 2014 5:29 PM

Interesting statistic - For every black man killed by a cop 50 black men are killed by another black man. If we carry this one step forward how many of those black men were killed by a cop who was defending another black man? Kind of gives you a different perspective. I don't know any police officers who would put their lives in jeopardy to score a point.

John from RF  

Posted: August 20th, 2014 5:13 PM

Wow. A fractured eye socket? Does anyone here realize how hard the cop must've been hit by Brown in order to break his eye socket?!! No patty cake going on there.

joe from south oak park  

Posted: August 20th, 2014 5:11 PM

Wait for the investigation. If the reported injuries to the officer from his altercation with Brown are correct, (orbital blowout fracture) the shooting will likely be found justified. I just hope that if/when this happens that it doesn't spark more violence in Ferguson or spread to other locations.

Dwyer  

Posted: August 20th, 2014 4:48 PM

My apologies. That last was directed at 'DontShoot.'

Dwyer  

Posted: August 20th, 2014 4:46 PM

Actually, you can shoot an unarmed person under certain circumstances, "Voice of Reason." Just like you can convict someone on amassed circumstantial evidence, despite what the general public believes. And smashing a cop in the face causing serious injury, then trying to take his gun, and then charging at him again with your 6-foot-4, 300 pound body constitutes one of those circumstances where lethal force is justified and legal.

Voice of Reason from OP  

Posted: August 20th, 2014 4:33 PM

The truth slowly starts to emerge, despite the cacophony of those in the media and the grievance industry. Yes, the officer was beaten pretty badly by a 300 lb guy who was on something. Now this....http://youngcons.com/breaking-autopsy-expert-hired-by-michael-brown-family-is-a-huge-fraud/....From WDAF in Kansas City, the "autopsy" bought by lawyers for the Brown family is a fraud. It's too bad this whole thing keeps getting more weird by the minute. What's next, Kaito Kaelin??

#DontShoot  

Posted: August 20th, 2014 4:26 PM

Brown gets a pass because he's the victim. Why do we judge the cop? He's the one who pulled the trigger. Simple as that. Regardless of what went down, you can't shoot someone who is unarmed. That doesn't sit right with anybody...except for a few people trolling here.

OP Transplant  

Posted: August 20th, 2014 4:05 PM

It's reported that the officer was pretty beat up. Anyone, regardless of race, who starts hitting a police officer is likely to get shot. Comply with police officers when they are exercising their legal authority, and you don't have to worry about it.

Dwyer  

Posted: August 20th, 2014 3:59 PM

Several news outlets are reporting the shooting officer had "serious facial injuries' due to Brown's attack on him. One outlet says cop suffered a fractured eye socket from a punch.- - - http://sunnewsonline.net/usnews/news/ferguson-cop-had-serious-facial-injury-source-tells-abc-news-abc-news - - - http://www.foxbangor.com/national-news/missouri-cop-was-badly-beaten-before-shooting-michael-brown-says-source.html

In Glen Ellyn formerly from OP  

Posted: August 20th, 2014 3:53 PM

to DontShoot- you misunderstand my intention. I certainly don't think he should be shot dead for the box of cigars, but for entering the officer's squad car and struggling over the gun until it discharges... why why why do the racist protesters, using the mantra of "white cop kills unarmed black teenager", want to DENY the relevant actions of M. Brown leading up to his death? And destroy their own neighborhood in the process? Dare I say, "cultural irresponsibility"? "Blame whitey" is so wrong.

Josh from Oak Park  

Posted: August 20th, 2014 3:53 PM

...departments are put in place full of officers to keep the peace and they do have authority over them. Which means in certain situations, you must do what they say. Don't know why this is so hard to grasp. Want to live in a lawless society and don't have to listen to peace officers if you don't want to, head on over to Mogadishu and let us know how that works out.

Uncommon Sense  

Posted: August 20th, 2014 3:53 PM

chose to riot and throw a temper tantrum instead of letting a proper investigation into the incident be completed. We are a country of laws, not mob rule.

Josh from Oak Park  

Posted: August 20th, 2014 3:52 PM

If there was any assassination of character to Mr. Brown, he did it to himself. Strong-arm robbery + drugs in system possible resistance/charging and/or going for an officer's weapon are not a good start. Even adding all those things and the fact that he was reportedly a member of a violent gang, all those things are immaterial. You know why I would never think of charging an officer or reaching for his weapon? Fear of getting tased or shot. We live in a law-filled society where...

Uncommon Sense  

Posted: August 20th, 2014 3:50 PM

@#Don't Shoot, quit making excuses. Going for an officer's gun most certainly will get you shot. Stop watching movies where everyone gets shot in the knee cap. If you do something to cause an officer to pull his gun, at that point you are playing Russian roulette with your life. Yes, MB's death is tragic, but choices have consequences. If we aren't to judge MB, why are you then allowed to judge the officer's actions? This fiasco started because a certain segment of the population

#DontShoot  

Posted: August 20th, 2014 3:37 PM

Glen Ellyn (and many comments here) seem to be insinuating that there is something this young man could have done to deserve being shot. That's not the way this country works and, beyond racism, the character assassination going on that blames the victim is exactly the kind of culture we need justice from. There is nothing this unarmed teen could have done--not even going for the officer's gun--that gives the police the right to kill all while circumventing the court Brown had a right to.

the hunter's wife from Oak Park  

Posted: August 20th, 2014 3:24 PM

If Brown's arms were raised in the air, how did a shot that passed through his arm end up in his chest cavity? Perhaps you can explain how this occurred. You can even use your arm raised selfie as a reference. Looking forward to your answer. - the hunter's wife

the hunter's wife from Oak Park  

Posted: August 20th, 2014 3:21 PM

"According to witnesses in the Brown shooting, his hands were raised before he was shot." Now this is the most amazing thing...according to the pathologist who performed the second autopsy, shots passed through Michael Brown's arm and entered his chest and lungs. " Some of the shots to his arm went through the limb and entered his chest and lungs, according to Dr. Baden" http://online.wsj.com/articles/crowds-thin-in-ferguson-as-midnight-curfew-starts-1408253833 (cont.)

In Glen Ellyn formerly from OP  

Posted: August 20th, 2014 3:20 PM

M. Brown's family and the Ferguson protesters demand justice. JUSTICE - the administering of deserved punishment or reward. Vid. evidence shows M. Brown robbing the convenience store and intimidating the store clerk. Multiple witnesses corroborate that M. Brown attacked the officer in the squad car until the officer's gun goes off. Autopsy indicates marijuana in M. Brown's system.Illegal drug use, robbery, assault, attempted murder. Justice would be to charge Ferguson false witnesses riot costs.

Bill Simmons from Arlington  

Posted: August 20th, 2014 1:51 PM

On August 12, a few days after Brown was shot on (which is a horrible tragedy, A black policeman in Salt Lake City shot and killed a 20 year old unarmed white man. The policeman was listed as "other than white", you have to dig to find his race. Where is Sharpton? Why haven't you heard about it? Where's all the people that want justice for Dillon Taylor? Why is it that black people are the only people that can be victims? My blog: http://http://unpoliticallycorrecttexan.blogspot.com

John Butch Murtagh from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: August 20th, 2014 1:42 PM

I often wonder why it takes so long for the OP Police to release details on crimes faster than they do. Ferguson has clarified why. Get your act in order before talking to to the sharks in the press pool.

lincoln from buffalo  

Posted: August 20th, 2014 1:39 PM

No one black, white wants to see a unarmed person shot and killed.but to riot and damage your city is not the answer. .we deal with bad and mentally ill people all the time..this man could be a bad man with a gun and a badge or mentally ill and snapped ..who shoots some one down that many times...people need to think with their brain's and their heart's and stop listening to these small, weak minded so called leaders who love keeping all this hate alive. .

Ebony  

Posted: August 20th, 2014 11:41 AM

mose - I understand the truth is often inconvenient, but you might want to give it a shot on this one.

mose from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 9:36 PM

Strange that you seem set against hearing the evidence, Josh. Let's wait and see what the witnesses have to say. Perhaps the friend will offer testimony under oath that Michael Brown committed strong armed robbery would be much more convincing that your apparent willingness to accept a third party's version of the events. I wonder why you are so convinced that a crime took place but the store clerk chose not call the police about a theft and assault. No harm. No foul.

Please  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 7:25 PM

The answer to your question Terry is no. As long as young men of any color commit robberies, attempt to disarm police officers, punch them, and then charge at them of course. My guess is that if you just stop and do what you are asked to do then the chances of you getting yourself killed by a police officer go down by about 99.999999%. I'm just saying.

Uncommon Sense  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 5:39 PM

I have a theory that the major failure of the civil rights movement was that it was too successful. So successful that you have an entire segment of the black community that can't recognize that racist white people are no longer a factor in their lives. Not too mention the washed up throw backs to that era still agitating along with the liberal black studies depts, etc. This is why you get this pseudo intellectualism regarding racism that isn't rooted in any kind reality.

In Glen Ellyn formerly from OP  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 5:22 PM

For the record, I have been a 20something single wht in the middle of a blk mob, physically unharmed, and so I know circumstances do NOT dictate an inevitable outcome of brutal violence when being victimized. We have GOT to be honest with eachother, and we have got to be brave enough to keep our friends and family honest in their moments of weakness until the madness stops. Everyone has value and should be treated as valuable, except maybe sneaks, cheats, liars, and thieves. That'd be fair, no?

Josh from Oak Park  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 5:12 PM

@ Mose (for the final time): Brown's friend admitting to the fact + the video of Brown shoving the clerk = strong-arm robbery all day every day. Not sure what else you need. Your posts seem to have a semi-troll type of vibe and incredibly narrow minded. Have a nice day and good luck with whatever you're trying to do...

In Glen Ellyn formerly from OP  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 5:12 PM

The criminals and liars who stick together inherit the slum they create. The false witnesses, the bold liars, the thieves, the bullies ruin the lives and community they touch, and then they complain about not getting fair treatment. Terry, since you want to make this a racism issue- I contend that white driven American racism of the past has been replaced by black driven racism, perpetuating the perceived oppression by whitey.Be glad you don't see whitey riot when a blk mob attacks a single wht.

Mose from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 4:54 PM

Josh, you've escalated this incident to strong armed robberry. I have yet to hear that charge against Michael Brown leveled by the police chief. Lot's of innacurate reporting regarding the shooting. I wait for the facts before judging.

In Glen Ellyn formerly from OP  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 4:49 PM

http://www.ijreview.com/2014/08/168698-eyewitness-recalls-important-detail-background-video-mins-ferguson-shooting/ Above video includes an accidental witness account of Michael Brown going back toward the officer, discounting not only the forensically disproven initial witness LIES of Brown's being shot in the back, but also the LIES that he was shot while standing to surrender.The Brown family has repeatedly said BEFORE having evidence, justice is nothing short of Wilson's conviction. Madness.

Josh from Oak Park  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 4:47 PM

@ Mose: Check the link in my previous post. The gentleman who was with Brown when he was killed confirmed through his lawyer that he was present with Michael Brown when he committed the strong-arm robbery. This leaves no room open to interpretation.

Mose from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 4:43 PM

Josh, the store employee did not file a complaint with the police claiming that Michael Brown shoplifted or assualted him. The police department has not released an incident report or provided the tape of a 911 call made by the clerk. There is video from the store camera that appears to show him paying for the cigars. Lots of misinformation out there. Best to hold off judging the police officer or the victim until we have all the facts.

Uncommon Sense  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 4:37 PM

I told you these folks will twist logic and reality to try to support their narrative even in the face of irrefutable evidence. The next thing he will say is the video was staged or misinterpreted or because there is no sound, we didn't hear the clerk call Mike Brown the N word.

In Glen Ellyn formerly from OP  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 4:25 PM

http://fox2now.com/2014/08/15/raw-video-surveillance-video-believed-to-show-michael-brown-robbing-convenience-store/ The video of the convenient store robbery shows the same brazen arrogance of invincibility by mama Brown's "child" required to bum rush a cop with his gun drawn. The response of the guilty party's defenders is classic when presented with such history or evidence of character/behavior- deny loudly enough until the lie is believed. Liars don't want justice. That's a fact, Jack.

Josh from Oak Park  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 4:20 PM

@ Mose: Swing and a miss... http://www.ksdk.com/story/news/local/2014/08/15/attorney-dorian-johnson-michael-brown-robbery/14118769/ And just because it doesn't get reported, does not mean it didn't occur or was not a crime. What else ya got?

Mose from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 3:55 PM

Josh is misinformed. There is no evidence to support the claim that Michael Brown committed a crime or assaulted the clerk at the convienent store. It should be noted that the store employees did not notify police of any crime involving Brown. We still have not learned enough from the police department internal investigation to conclude that the officer was in fear of his life. A question that remains unanswered is why the body of Michael Brown remained on the street for hours after the incident

Real List  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 3:22 PM

@Ray-I understand, but what about a coalition of women? 100 women...standing in unison...taking their neighborhoods back block by block. Imagine the public backing they'd receive across the country. Day long protests in front of each gang leader house chanting "Don't shoot!" They would be media darlings...true 21st century activists and change enablers. Public officials would give them the proper backup or risk severe backlash. Men would join in unison.

Ray Simpson from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 2:58 PM

@ Real - I have been on juries with black women from the projects who would love to confront the gang bangers. Their problem is retribution - you get dead! Inner city thugs feel nothing for anyone who challenges their actions - to include police!

Real List  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 2:36 PM

I would love to see this activism and enthusiasm for justice applied to the known gang members and drug dealers in each neighborhood. Imagine hundreds of AAs marching up to the crack houses, the local gang hangouts, and say GET...OUT! That would have a far more immediate impact of quality of life for everyone. Selective tolerance of injustice isn't a long-term solution.

Winter Skye from Chicago, Illinois  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 2:07 PM

Terry, when the young lady 16 and honor student) from the South Side who was shot dead over the weekend by mistake was made public, was your reaction the same? The sad truth is that no matter how dramatic these events, they are relatively rare compared to the daily grinding violence of Black male-on Black male violence. Now I see the meme spread around about INTRA-racial violence (same-race homicides) beings the norm in America. They are suggesting that it's equal with Whites and so why is the media focusing on Blacks killing Blacks? For one, statistics lump Hispanics in the same category as White, which is utterly deceptive! I really have to question this practice. I suspect that they are trying to paper over the glaring racial/ethnic disparity of gang involvement and crime in general by people of color. In any case, I think the larger troubling piece in this case is that there are young people out there who do what they feel like doing and seem to have no sense of boundaries (not taking what doesn't belong to them, not walking in the middle of the road and obstructing traffic). They find out the hard way that they are required to cooperate and it's too bad they were not given such instruction earlier on in life. You are not honestly engaging this issue, in my opinion, and it does a disservice to the very people who need to read it. Your title plays into Blacks in America as perrenial victims and that is such a disempowering way to go through life. Stop waiting for other people to be decent! You might wait a lifetime! U do U!

Uncommon Sense  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 2:02 PM

Ray, also notice how they use language like executed, gunned down, unarmed, murdered, etc to try to make it seem as if it is clear that Mike Brown was wrongly shot. The bias in the media is really telling. Just like with Trayvon, there will be egg on a lot of people's faces.

parent  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 1:58 PM

One of the shots entered from the top of Brown's head. So was Brown rushing the officer while he (the officer) was standing on a ladder? The police need to do their job, but shooting should be a last resort and even then they should shoot to stop, not kill. I've not heard any reports of the officer calling out that Brown should stop or he would shoot. I thought police were supposed to be trained to avoid over-reacting.

Uncommon Sense  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 1:57 PM

Ray, it is all about the narrative they are trying to spin. It is supposed to keep you from realizing this guy was huge, so they keep referring to him as a kid / child / teenager. I'd love to see some of these folks stand on the offensive line at an OPRF football game and see how much of a "kid" an 18 year old who is 300lbs and 6'4 really is.

Josh from Oak Park  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 1:50 PM

Re: the protesters, I'd say they are no longer peaceful when Molotov Cocktails are thrown, shots are fired at enforcement and looting occurs. Granted its a small percentage of them doing these things, but these are severe acts that require immediate counter-measure, regardless of how few perpetrators are committing them. In this case, you make sure everyone disperses.

Josh from Oak Park  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 1:48 PM

It is interesting to see other's takes on this matter. Forget the fact that this young man committed a crime and assaulted the store owner in the process a tad bit earlier. If reports coming to light are true that Brown was charging the officer, and he was in fear of a 6'4", 300 lb man threatening his life, then that is resistance. Why do people have no respect for the law? If a peace officer asks you to freeze, get out of the street, etc, you say thank you sir, may I have another and comply.

Ray Simpson from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 1:47 PM

When does a 300 pound male cease being a child and assumes the responsibilities of adulthood? The child in question probably out weighs the majority of the police department. Had it been a white female officer would the story be the same?

Uncommon Sense  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 1:40 PM

6huskies, they weren't "jaywalking". They were walking in the middle of the street to the point of obstructing traffic flow. Imagine someone walking down the middle of the Ridgeland. Even Oak Park cops would be like WTF? It appears that the officer let them go, but then heard the be on look out call for a suspect that fit MB's description. This is likely why MB's friend said the officer backed up. This also fits what other witnesses have said.

6huskies  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 1:33 PM

John Q, I am absolutely emotional but not uninformed. It was you that indicated stopping Michael Brown for jaywalking was all fine and dandy. I merely pointed out the implications of that. Either you arrest everyone you see or you choose to apply the law unequally. Discretion is the code word for unequal enforcement. That "discretion" results in more black arrests for the same offenses, more prosecutions, and harsher punishment for black males.

Uncommon Sense  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 1:25 PM

The utter hypocrisy and selective outrage demonstrate how messed up the community is at large. Simple mob rule with no ability to think rationally. A large segment is so invested in a white racist boogeyman being responsible for every single misfortune in the black community that they can't even believe what their own eyes would tell them under normal circumstances. It is so much easier to fool someone than to convince them they have been fooled.

parent  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 1:21 PM

Everybody knows that teenagers do stupid things. Research has even shown that the portion of the brain responsible for judgment is not fully developed in teens. It does appear that Brown did some things he shouldn't have. But let's be honest - so have plenty of kids in our community, including plenty of white kids. Holding kids responsible is one thing. Killing them is another. And police parading in riot gear isn't helping. Sadly the problem is much larger than this one death.

Uncommon Sense  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 1:21 PM

It is almost comical watching the usual race pimps and brainwashed black folks and liberals trying to twist logic and reason to fit a narrative that is quickly falling apart before their very eyes. At some point, you have to really question their sanity. The sad thing is that this case along with the others in the past continue to erode the credibility of legitimate claims of racism.

#DontShoot  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 1:00 PM

Excellent read, Terry. What's going on in Ferguson is horrible. Especially the poor handling of the situation by local officials. Darren Wilson will be indicted and arrested, but then there's the arrests of journalists to deal with, the heavy-handed police response, the need for more black police officers. This has been a wakeup call for everybody about some changes we need to make across the nation. It's not just Ferguson.

John Q  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 12:54 PM

Clear evidence that 6huskies is emotional on an issue but uninformed: "You can't argue for stopping Michael Brown for jaywalking unless you stop everyone for jaywalking." Is this the same for rural roads with little traffic and urban roads with heavy traffic? Is this the same for other local violations i.e. riding bikes on the sidewalk, dogs without leashes, no bike light at night? What about state violations like no light over your license plate or dangling air fresheners from your rearview?

OP Transplant  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 12:53 PM

My criticism of Mr. Dean regards his skills as a journalist. Why ignore the countless young black men who have been shot within miles of his office, then jump on this story in Ferguson, MO? The answer, of course, is that this story fits in to his existing world view. When you wait for a story that matches what you already think, I'm not sure that's good journalism.

John Q  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 12:45 PM

6huskies, no one is sidestepping your your questions. My dad taught me how to act with police officers. Shut my mouth, use respect and courtesy and if there is a problem deal with it later through the supervisor or courts. Yes I will teach my son the same thing. Your 2nd question was for Ray. According to you police should not use discretion and if they stop your granny speeding while coming home from church they should give her a ticket. You're not ready for this debate dude.

John Q  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 12:36 PM

http://www.redstate.com/diary/quill67/2014/08/18/unarmed-white-man-shot-dallas-police-august-11th/ Wow. An unarmed white man killed by police days after Michael Brown. Footage captures the white guy doing the same thing the police in Ferguson are saying Brown was accused of doing...charging at the officer.

Ebony  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 12:31 PM

6huskies: enough with the jaywalking, caps lock or no caps lock. Turns out Wilson is a pretty darn good cop, as you know he managed to stop an individual that just assaulted someone while committing a robbery. And you might want to take a look at the link posted by Uncommon Sense, as it looks like our little 300 pound angel attacked the cop.

John Q  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 12:31 PM

Ray Simpson: The lack of center mass shots and broad shot group are also indicators of adrenaline overload and marksmanship. They don't prove anything about the officer's intentions when firing. Furthermore, just as in the military, there is no use of "non-lethal" shooting strategies. When he fired that first shot more than likely he was hoping for center mass. BTW I've been known to enjoy The Riverwalk, The Hacienda, and The Alamo in between medical studies as well.

6huskies  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 12:24 PM

I don't show a wide lack of knowledge on the issue. You can't argue for stopping Michael Brown for jaywalking unless you stop everyone for jaywalking. Uneven enforcement of the law skewed toward stopping young black men is not equal protection. It is close to stop and frisk. Stop and frisk in practice means stopping people with brown skin. It's a pattern of harassment and attempt to control. Just like stopping someone for jaywalking. Nice sidestepping of the questions, though.

John Q  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 12:23 PM

...on the street and then just move on. What the heck kind of police force is that? No one wants the cops, the appointed protectors of their communities who are supposed to safeguard us from rape, robbeyr and murder to get beat up and in the street and just go home. How cowardly and how unbecoming of a sworn guardian of the community. Did it ever occur to you that a NFL sized teenager who just robbed a convenience store might be aggressive when confronted by police shortly after?

John Q  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 12:19 PM

Terry, Terry, Terry smh...you're saying what appears to be the case despite autopsy results saying it is not ruled out that Brown was running towards the officer. You've made up your mind that this cop just shot a guy because he whooped his @$$. Well that sounds great when you exchange the police for regular citizens who fight and call it a day. An arrest still has to made after he "whipped your butt." The cops does not get to "move on." I'd love to see how you respect police and get "whipped"..

John Q  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 12:14 PM

6huskies, that's where the hypocrisy comes out. I KNOW the names of black men killed by black men. I don't know one man personally, white or black, who was killed by the police. Perhaps your lack of understanding about the law is what is most telling. Being unarmed has no bearing on the use of deadly force. Your perpetuating a threat and the ability to fulfill it is all you need. Have you heard the phone recording where the witness says Brown was running at the officer while & after being shot?

John Q  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 12:09 PM

I'm actually pleasantly surprised at most of the responses here.But I'm also surprised with Dean's unusual jump to conclusions. 6 Huskies shows the wide lack of knowledge on this issue. You can't say he was stopped for a violation of local law and then say he had no business being stopped. It's not even close to stop and frisk. Stop and frisk begins with suspicion of criminal activity. The fact he was in the street jaywalking is probable cause. How about don't resist orders and fight police?

6huskies  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 12:03 PM

Ray, with all due respect the issue here isn't black on black crime. It is police on black crime. Anything else is just misdirection. What would you hope to prove or disprove by your comparison? Perhaps a more telling statistic is unarmed black men killed by police compared to unarmed white men killed by police. Maybe it's white men stopped for jaywalking vs black men stopped for jaywalking. And the "bad luck" shot was certainly worse luck for the unarmed black teenager than the while officer.

OP Transplant  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 12:02 PM

In my last sentence, "you" was meant to say "young". Damn autocorrect.

OP Transplant  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 12:00 PM

Mr. Dean's editorial unfortunately perpetuates the increasingly creaky narrative of black victimization. I don't recall Mr. Dean expressing his outrage whenever one of hundreds of young black Chicagoans is murdered, but he'll reach all the way to Missouri to lecture us if the shooter is white. Obviously, whatever Michael Brown may or may not have been guilty of, he did not deserve to die in the street. But neither do the countless you black men who die right here.

Uncommon Sense  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 12:00 PM

@Ebony, my hunch is starting to come true. http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/08/breaking-report-po-darren-wilson-suffered-orbital-blowout-fracture-to-eye-socket-during-encounter-with-mike-brown/

6huskies  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 11:55 AM

Michael Brown was stopped for JAYWALKING. He had no business being stopped. It's the Ferguson equivalent of stop and frisk. Maintain the power structure, make sure the young man knows his place and who is in charge. Keep your mouth shut and take it. Don't make trouble for us even though we made trouble for you. We can do what we want to you when we want. That's a hell of a message to expect generation to accept. Play the game and MAYBE nothing happens. Do you accept that for your son?

Ray Simpson from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 11:51 AM

I was a combat medic in the army years ago and while not trained in forensics we did study gun shot wounds. I look at those autopsy drawings and my read is that the shooter was not shooting to kill. There are no center of mass shots but, rather, several arm and shoulder hits. The cop was likely experiencing adrenaline overload and that fatal shot was just bad luck. It seems logical that a police officer who had seven years of spotless service would have shown signs of racism rather than dedication to his community. I would like to see the percentages of black men killed by other black men compared to black men killed by white police officers. That statistic seems to be embarrassing to the black community so it isn't mentioned. This small city in Missouri is poorly equipped to handle a incident that has such national furor. How would oak Park react - - better - maybe - who knows?

Ebony  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 11:48 AM

Uncommon Sense - If pictures show Wilson was indeed assaulted I would not expect to see much coverage in the media. The truth certainly doesn't fit the narrative being pushed by so many with an agenda on this incident.

Uncommon Sense  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 11:41 AM

OPT, yes the outrage is selective (and hypocritical) which is why I'm fed up with these perpetual victims. I'd love for Terry to tell us exactly how many black men are shot by white cops. Compare that to the weekly carnage here in Chicago perpetrated by other black men. A black life only has value to these folks when it is taken by a white person.

In Glen Ellyn formerly from OP  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 11:40 AM

One of these days we'll all come to the realization that ignoring the facts, denying the facts, and insisting on playing the victim perpetuates resentment and lack of sympathy for the occasional truth. Hamas does this. Oh, you thought I meant this group in Ferguson, MO. In both cases, enormous funds are spent to protect the peaceful, law abiding folk from the destructive WILL of some neighbors. We're such a smart bunch, ain't we?

OP Hipster from OP  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 11:33 AM

No worries. ISIS is on the scene. Peace and Justice sure to follow. http://youngcons.com/huge-sign-behind-cnns-jake-tapper-in-ferguson-about-isis-is-unbelievable/

OP Transplant  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 11:05 AM

Information about the events is still scarce. In general, though, cops don't fight people. They use whatever level of force is necessary to maintain control of a situation. This can include deadly force. Anyone who wants to fight an police officer is likely to get shot. For anyone who is truly concerned about the premature deaths of young black men, their anger would be better directed at other young black men. I'm finding the black community selective in its outrage.

Uncommon Sense  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 10:46 AM

Anyone want to put up some cash that when the photos are released of the officer, Darren Wilson, it will show he was assaulted? The entire narrative is falling apart, just like with Trayvon, Tawanna Brawley, Duke LAX, etc. The fatal wound was on the top of Brown's head which indicates he was likely charging the policeman.

In Glen Ellyn formerly from OP  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 10:43 AM

"then any cop has a right to defend himself, including using force, even if that force is lethal. But that just doesn't appear to be the case here. You don't shoot and kill the person who just whipped your butt in a fist fight. Just lick your wounds and move on." Very poor, ignorant, and sadly contradictory statement. A) corroborated by witnesses, the officer's gun discharged WITHIN the squad car during a struggle with a violent reported perp. I could stop there. I should stop there.

Ebondy  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 9:41 AM

Damn...well, it might end when people take responsibility for their actions. Have you seen the video of Brown attacking the store clerk? Not at all hard to believe he went after the cop after seeing this type of behavior. Oh, and "peaceful" protests? Molotov cocktails, shooting, burning stores, looting, etc. Ridiculous. The cops should be arresting a lot more of those criminals, rather than letting them destroy businesses.

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