Police shoot unarmed black man-will this ever end?

Opinion: Letters To The Editor

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By Terry Dean

Staff reporter

The shooting of Michael Brown in Ferguson, Missouri occurred just days before I arrived in St. Louis for my daughter's scheduled hip surgery last week. I thought: Damn, another innocent, unarmed young black male teen shot to death by police. Then we started to find out that Brown, 18, might not have been so squeaky clean as an individual. 

He did steal a box of cigars from a local convenient store that afternoon, Aug. 9, just prior to the shooting. For that, he should have been arrested, tried and, if found guilty, convicted and sentenced to prison time accordingly. 

"Shoot on sight," however, is neither justice nor an appropriate solution. 

Ferguson Police Chief Tom Jackson first said the two incidents were not related — that the accused shooter, Off. Darren Wilson, did not exact some old-fashioned street justice against Brown for breaking the law. 

Then the police department — under Jackson's contradictory and confusing order — released the store's video security footage, allegedly showing Brown committing the robbery, including physically assaulting the store's owner who tried to stop him. 

You don't need to be a lawyer to see what Jackson's trying to do: laying the groundwork for justifying the shooting. And that includes the department now saying that Wilson might have seen the box of cigars on "Brown's person."

Along with the tear-gassing of peaceful protestors, Ferguson's starting to look like something out of mid-20th century America, with blacks terrorized by the KKK and white supremacists in both the South and North. 

I'll let others make the comparison between Chief Jackson and Eugene "Bull" Connor, the cold-blooded, racist police commissioner in Birmingham, Alabama during the Civil Rights Movement. Blacks were routinely harassed, hunted and killed by police back then.

Today, that's not true for all police and every department. There are good cops here in Missouri and elsewhere. But there remain those who probably should be in a different line of work. 

According to various witnesses in the Brown shooting, his hands were raised before he was shot. Newly-released autopsy photos confirm he was shot several times in the face and elsewhere from the front. No weapons belonging to Brown were found on him. He was originally stopped for jaywalking with his buddy in the street. 

But the crime of "Driving (or in this case walking) While Black" is just something black folks made up, right?

If Brown attacked the police, which is what the Ferguson Police Department says happened, then any cop has a right to defend himself, including using force, even if that force is lethal. But that just doesn't appear to be the case here. You don't shoot and kill the person who just whipped your butt in a fist fight. Just lick your wounds and move on. 

If Brown did, as the police say, wrestle with Officer Wilson and somehow ended up inside the squad car and then somehow back out on the street, if he then surrenders, cops just can't shoot him down in cold blood. If they can in this incident, then they can in almost any incident involving a "potential threat."

Regardless of what kind of person Michael Brown was, we can add him to the long list of unarmed black men and boys killed by police over the last decade or so, most of whom committed no crime whatsoever.  

Damn, when will this madness ever end?

CONTACT: tdean@wjinc.com

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Eric Johnson  

Posted: March 28th, 2015 2:48 AM

Interesting comments! But, what I failed to see, yet again is that black people seem to be the "very ones" that refuse to answer their own question! Which, we all know by now is, do "Black Lives Matter"? Of, course they do, and in my opinion "all lives matter"! Well, after viewing ..again the National Crime Stats I continue to see that Black people are the very ones that are committing the majority of the crimes in the US today, and the black community is viewed as being little more than "killing zones"! But, it appears that we couldn't care less! Because, the killing goes on! That's, also the typical, predictable, and pathetic response! And, also that black people kill "50 times" as many black men as do White Police, yearly! And, we're hereWhy ..."still" aren't we as a people willing to be held accoutable for our negative behaviors...which clearly only leds to "more Blacks" being killed at the hands of other Black people! So, what's up with that? Lack of personal responsibilty...still? Black people themselves need not continue to ask "anyone" whether, or not they value Black lives..because we just refuse to respond to that very same question! But, then have the aducaity to throw that very question in faces of others! This is a Black problem, and one that been around for a long time, but still we refuse to accept the truth! Even, these "so-called" black leaders also go on mute, when asked that very same question as well. Why on earth follow these fakers, as leaders? Is, Sharpton, Jackson, and that civil rights crowd the "BEST" that we can offer as a people? This looks terrible, just like the LIES that emanated from Ferguson. One, lies lead to multiple lies! And, in truth we as a people need to issue Office Wilson a serious, and much overdue apology! However, we still haven't heard one! That clearly shows the pertpetual denial that we continued to emmerse ourselves in, coupled with that "all too present" boat load of DENIAL! We have both embrassed ourselves "again".

Melinda McCullough from Louisville, Kentucky  

Posted: March 12th, 2015 2:36 PM

When will we have the community Leaders involved?Seldom are Church Leaders who should be in this round t able discussion seen, and I am not talking about Jessie Jackson. I am talking about center church community Leaders who are at church in our communities every week. They are the change that's needed.

Ramona Lopez from Chicago, Illinois  

Posted: March 11th, 2015 12:10 PM

Mr. Dean is obviously biased on this issue. "Shoot on site" policy? Really Mr. Dean? Did Michael Brown get shot when the police officer asked him to stop walking in the middle of the street? No, he was shot after he tried to take his gun and charge him. I stopped reading the article after that blatant lie. When are we going to have an honest an open discussion about race? When are we going to stop being politically correct and trying to appease the masses. We will never get anywhere until all parties own up to their actions.

Ed Salava from Lakeland, Minnesota  

Posted: March 11th, 2015 10:24 AM

Jack from Illinois, so now youre telling me it is a democrat thing because SF is 55 percent. Pull your head out everyone of you. He bum rushed the cop, he got shot because he was an idiot period. I stand my ground anyone bum rushed and feels there life is in danger has every right to shoot and kill the person. These idiots are getting more rights than they deserve. It is always a BLACK think this is all we ever hear. The next time I get a ticket from a black cop I am going to file a suit complaing that the only reason he pulled me over was because I was white and he hates whites. I will have all his tickets he issued that day and show he gave 98 percent whites tickets. It does not matter he is working a white neighborhood , he pulled me over because It is a white thing. Do you all agree?

Ed Salava from Lakeland, Minnesota  

Posted: March 11th, 2015 10:17 AM

This is sad but white or black if you rush a cop you will be shot. I get it but everyone walking the streets forgets we are dealing with idiots breaking the law in most cases. Whites get shot also in fact more than blacks if you google it you will see this. Also white cops shot by blacks and killed is higher than hell. Blck cop are very rarely shot and killed by blacks, but white cops are killed by black thugs are 85 percent. These people who break the law deserve justice. I am the first to jump up and say the cops are idiots. They do let their heads get in the way and they do beat the shit out of people too much and all that but when a crime is happening and someone jumps him he can protect himself. If I would have went in the house, not even being a cop and the guy rushed me, I would have shot him also and I would have never been charged because I was protecting my life I felt was in danger. This is the exact reason I do carry and conceal o if this does happen I will protect.

Jesse Oliver from thousand oaks  

Posted: March 11th, 2015 2:00 AM


Aaron from Murfreesboro  

Posted: March 3rd, 2015 12:00 AM

The bullets hit at an angle, so he was rushing the cop when he got shot. Brown wasn't a tiny guy, and I would have felt fear being attacked by someone his size. Licking your wounds after a fistfight doesn't apply to cops. If you get attacked, you are justified in using lethal force. Brown reached into the police car window and tried to take Wilson's sidearm. That alone is justification of lethal force.

OP Res 253  

Posted: March 2nd, 2015 3:25 PM

I love the WJ! Thanks to the message boards neighborhood priorities can be clearly discerned. Austin: All about the Praise Dancing, amen. Oak Park: We are NOT racists some of our best friends are black. I thought River Forest was sane, then the happy housewives ferreted out the truth: It's all about the parking baby, the parking. Once I find the board that has most comments on the proper martini, I'm moving along!

joe dilullo from norristown  

Posted: March 1st, 2015 6:01 PM

I'm not going to get into reading all this but the fact that the man was on alarmed doesn't matter don't ever want the cops to only be able to shoot someone if they are armed the fact that they have a gun or not or a knife is irrelevant if they resisted police scare the police tried to attack the police they should be shot. Doesn't matter what color they are pretty soon the cops are going to be afraid to shoot black people that shouldn't be


Posted: March 1st, 2015 11:54 AM

Stop the hate guys. Wilson did what he had to do, sadly for his family. His family should have done a better job of raising him. You may not think they deserve sympathy, but they do. I don't think much will change as a result of it- but I do know that Only the Lord has the right to judge.

John from Tampa  

Posted: February 28th, 2015 9:35 PM

If everyone would use a little intelligence when it comes to wanting to complain about these shootings and look up the facts from the actual cases in court they would see that ALL of these cases involve the same circumstance. Repeated noncompliance to repeated police orders by the victims every time. When police give orders or commands to any and all civilians or potential perpetrators of crimes everyone legally MUST comply and are obligated to follow those orders or commands. These thugs didnt.

Jack from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: February 28th, 2015 8:41 PM

Todd, I'm trying to figure out your point but wonder if you are aware that San Franciso is a "democrat city" More than 55% of voters identify themselves as registered democrats. You seem very confused about crime in Chicago and other major US cities and may need to review more accurate information. Same goes for Joe from Jersey.

Joe Vance from Manahawkin NJ  

Posted: February 25th, 2015 8:08 AM

The blacks being shot are anything BUT innocent as Grand Jury after Grand Jury has proven. The killings will stop when the black stop looking at themselves as victims and instead take responsibility for their own actions. Blacks are 13% of the population and yet comprise over HALF of the prison population and over 90% of whites killed are killed by blacks while under 5% of blacks killed are killed by white even though Whites are 75% of the population. Numbers don't lie. Clean up your act or p


Posted: February 23rd, 2015 3:29 PM

Eyes to read, but blind to these words, ears to hear, but don't listen. Only the lord is the truth, the light and the way. The past is the past, cant be changed, work on the future. What ever you have in mind will not work, unless divine intervention is involved. If we all practiced what the bible teaches, none of this would have happened. Brown likely died before he asked for forgiveness for his sins. Wilson can still ask for forgiveness. If the lord is in our hearts, no room for evil or hate


Posted: February 23rd, 2015 2:31 PM

A dead witness is a good witness. As long as the opposing side can't speak for themselves, everyone else can create their words for them.

Truth be told from Atlanta  

Posted: February 23rd, 2015 1:54 AM

oh God: Dan is part of the problem! He is using the bible to justify taking a black life. That religion was taught by the slave master. It was designed to make you not want to run away and feel guilty if you did save your wife from being raped. If you do not believe me check it out. Enslave your mind and you carry the chains with you where ever you go. Including prison. Look to Rome, The men ho made America. They did not apologize for living and getting rich. Did they call on the lawd?

Truth be told from atlanta  

Posted: February 23rd, 2015 1:46 AM

I read a lot and I study human behavior. The reason police kill black men is because there is no downside to it. They do not even get a reprimand for taking a human life. To stop police from killing unarmed black men you must quit wishing the lawd save you, and take quick and decisive action to save yourself. You must make being racist a pain in the a$$. Be like Muslims over the pix of Muhammad. Did George Zimmerman call on jesus? No, he is better off after killing Travon.


Posted: February 20th, 2015 7:49 AM

Is there anyone out there listening at all ? The days of wrath are coming, and for some of us, have already come. If Officer Wilson will earnestly ask for forgiveness, it will be given(as it is written in the scriptures). For Michael Brown, its too late. Don't let it be too late for you, none of us know when our time will come. Please read the Bible- to read it and follow its teachings is our only way to salvation- please read, Please


Posted: February 19th, 2015 8:30 AM

Anyone that reads this article, and thinks killing Michael Brown is a good thing, take heed and tell anyone you know that feels the same as you-REPENT- please. I felt the same as you, and now I'm paying for my arrogance, but you don't have to. Pray for forgiveness, and take the Lord into you heart before its too late for you too...


Posted: February 18th, 2015 9:11 AM

The Lord doesn't want us killing one-another. Nearly all wish there was a column dedicated to bring us all closer, rather than farther apart- with constructive criticism dedicated to helping solutions- I suppose Church is the best place for that. If all people went to church and earnestly listened, and took it to heart, and practiced it- we could do it. Unfortunately, its never happened in the past, and likely not to happen in the future. Cant go? READ THE BIBLE MY FRIENDS, PLEASE


Posted: February 18th, 2015 8:45 AM

Lord ozamo, I'm not shure how you're comment is relevant to any of this. Jamals, I stated earlier that I thought Officer Wilson was in the right when he shot Brown. Brown had ample opportunity to "get on the ground" being shot several times before he was fatally shot. I wish he wasn't killed- but I don't think Wilson thought he had a choice. You have to consider the effect that it has on persons that were close to him- no matter how much deserved. It all ends in a shattered world. Pray for us

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Posted: February 17th, 2015 4:03 PM

The old Indian grandfather that was abused by the police in Alabama deserve sympathy, cause he posed no threat, and was still abused. Big Mike does not, because he assaulted the officer, went for his gun (as evidence indicates), and deserved what he got. It's gotten to the point where if a black person is killed by a cop, the automatic assumption of many is to paint the cop a criminal, despite the disproportionate levels of violent crime blacks commit in the US.


Posted: February 17th, 2015 3:30 PM

All the hate and anger from both sides- you'd think we would learn something from all this, instead, I think it draws the line even harder. From the bottom of my heart, I apologize to all those that I have offended-and the hard line I took. Sometimes it takes a personal tragedy to see things more clearly, and to put things in perspective. Brown was more than a big black thug, he was a friend to some, a son, brother or cousin to others. Lets stop the hate, only the Lord has the right to judge...


Posted: February 17th, 2015 3:11 PM

I feel remorse in the fact that people act the way we do.The very fact Wilson was put in that situation tells me that Brown had contempt for Wilson. Had he gotten Wilsons gun the table could have been turned, with Wilsons death. I don't think that blacks and whites will ever truly come together, its inbred. We were all brought up differently- with a certain amount of prejudice. the question is, can we overcome these prejudices, all of us? I consider myself a Christian, its time I acted like one

Bob from Schiller Park  

Posted: February 17th, 2015 2:56 PM

Ferguson was looted and destroyed by blacks when the protests took place. Not I, nor my ancestors owned salves. FYI you're own people sold them into slavery. Everyone of all colors commits crimes, it's not skin color that matters. It's how you are raised and taught. Quit playing the I'm black feel sorry for me.


Posted: February 17th, 2015 1:29 PM

Bill, and everyone else, the reason I made that statement is due to Terry Deans' assertion that all cases involving white cops and blacks is an attempted extermination- without having all the facts. The same holds true for me, I didn't have all the facts either. I have come to the realization that much of my opinionated comments are not well grounded. There was an episode of "In the heat of the night" that changed my perspective on a lot of things. I do feel that Wilson was still justified.

Paul P.  

Posted: February 13th, 2015 9:53 PM

Jon, I don't know about the media reporting in your hometown but there have been numerous accounts of citizen campaigns, organized rallies and community marches. Black on black crime is not being ignored. Try an internet search if you have any interest in learning more. It really is "beyond strange" that you claim to be unaware of any leaders who have called for an end to the senseless violence. Finally, guess who are the #1 murderers of white people? White men! Put that in your FACT file!

Bill Doogan  

Posted: February 13th, 2015 5:38 PM

Dan sez anyone who thinks a cop would shoot down an unarmed black man in broad daylight is nuts. CPD detective Jon Burge directed the systematic torture of black men by electric shock & suffocation, then put them on death row. Cops using the system to commit legalized murder. Took the US Attorney plus 30 yrs. to put Burge away. You're right Dan, that would never happen to you, you're one of the "good guys.'' Pay your NRA dues so lobbyist Todd Vandermyde can have a job fixing his sellout.

Jon from Las Vegas  

Posted: February 13th, 2015 3:37 PM

It's sad to see black men being killed at the hands of white policemen. But, what ever far more sad, and sickening is why we also continue to see droves of Black men being killed at the hands of other Black men! I continue to find it "beyond strange" that the black community...along with it's "so-called leadership" also fails to openly address that very topic! Why? Black people are the "number one killers" of black men in this country! And, that's a FACT!


Posted: February 11th, 2015 10:53 AM

Winter, Ray, OPT, Uncommon Sense- I agree, this article has run its course, but is a different facet, this nonsense with SLU and the dozen or so points they're addressing, which includes a memorial to commemorate (the bullshit from) the rioters, just seems like madness- I don't understand....isn't that positive re-enforcement of their behavior? If this is appropriate, then shouldn't Wilson also have the same? Punish the ones that do good, reward the criminals? Any thoughts? I just don't get it

Ray Simpson from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: February 7th, 2015 3:10 PM

OK - we have 3/4 of a thousand comments, Terry Dean has moved on and the smut merchants are coming out from under their rocks. There is little or nothing left to say or add to the conversation beyond "Lets see how offensive we can get" The facts are in the officers life is ruined, a town has been pillaged the race baiters have had their time on national TV and nothing is resolved. SAD!!!

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Bre from Brooklyn  

Posted: February 1st, 2015 5:09 PM

@nakia what u said was racist and stupid. No offense. But think, how are blacks gonna turn America into Africa? We didn't choose to come to America in the first place, remember? The most we could do is take our culture with us, but we can't change a country. That is just physically and mentally impossible.

John Q  

Posted: January 31st, 2015 9:12 PM

I'm sorry. The last post was for Nakia. The summary of the last post was western civilization/ Europe made Africa the mess it appears today. A library card can work wonders.

John Q  

Posted: January 31st, 2015 9:10 PM

That was seriously one of the dumbest and most illogical comments I have read on here. You theorize that black Americans may turn America into Africa!?!? First off the continent isn't made up of black Americans with a black American culture. Second, the diseased, war torn, prone to genocide Africa you hear about on tv was not made that way by Africans. Provide any info you have of widespread starvation, mass genocide, or a diseased and infected Africa before European colonization...please...

John Q  

Posted: January 31st, 2015 9:06 PM

blaming the police because they did not FRISK the guy before he went to the hospital in the ambulance. Since when do cops frisk traffic crash motorists for incidents not involving weapons? Now if those same cops frisk someone else, trying to avoid a frivolous lawsuit as such, they will sued with a question of the constitutionality of frisking someone who was involved in a weaponless traffic crash. If you believe Wrana's family would not have sued if they closed the door and he stabbed himself...

John Q  

Posted: January 31st, 2015 9:02 PM

Lee from Oak Park: give it a break. The poor, sick and frail 95 year old WWII hero was so harmless the staff ran out of his room, then the paramedics ran out of his room, THEN the police ran out of the room before he was confronted the last time. There is no way for the cops to win these days. People are more concerned about the health and safety of the people they encounter than the cops. The man killed by cops in the Highland Park Hospital for pulling out a gun..well his family is suing and


Posted: January 31st, 2015 5:36 PM

It all started out as an answer to Deans question, thru an email to Dean where I stated: Anyone who thinks a police officer will kill a black man in cold blood, with his hands raised, in broad daylight- with lots of witnesses, needs to take classes in cognitive rational thinking. Of course he rebutted, stating a whole slew of past examples of such things. But now in closing I must end, turning full circle, with my original words: Dean, you do need to take classes in cognitive rational thinking


Posted: January 29th, 2015 7:30 AM

@Brian from Wash. Most of what you say is silly, which rightfully needs to be said. People just cant see the good from the bad. All that Ferguson violence... the bad. Even if everyone demonstrating were violent, its still just a few compared to the blacks that didn't riot...the good. still, it needs to be said that Brown did not put his hands up,(if you're implying he did), and Brown did attack the officer, while he was still in his cruiser as was determined by the grand jury investigation.

Brian from Washington  

Posted: January 27th, 2015 8:16 PM

Nakia I agree ! All these black people, and I'm black, should never call 911 or expect a officer to protect them. If black people hate police, let them police themselves. Block off their neighborhoods from everyone else. And In Ferguson, he never put his hands up!! He attacked the officer before he ever got out of vehicle! The officer had just come from a call were he saved a black toddler's life!! WHOA IS ME!!!! Poooooor black ppl, always a victim....

Nakia from Chattanooga   

Posted: January 27th, 2015 7:29 PM

Whatever!!!!! Find out how many blacks kill other blacks , white ppl, and cops! Bad blacks kill more than any other race! If black ppl aren't careful they will turn america into Africa .... And Wow, we all want to go there and live.

Brian Slowiak from Westchester  

Posted: January 24th, 2015 12:34 PM

@ OPT: Thanxs for the challenge.

OP Transplant   

Posted: January 24th, 2015 11:30 AM

I agree with you, Brian. I was just having a little fun with the way you worded it. This was clearly an example of a police interaction where no one should have ended up dead.

Brian Slowiak from Westchester  

Posted: January 24th, 2015 10:36 AM

Sorry,OPT, it is the entire statement. IMO the cops should have called the Coffee Cup Council Of Cops, even for a few minutes to just talk the case. Wait,breathe,talk.While something must be done,what they did wasn't correct.Training takes over for thought bad things happen.I am just pointing out the other side of the coin, nothing more.Throw buckets of ice water on him.use mattress or pillows,

Joe from Queens, NY  

Posted: January 23rd, 2015 12:08 PM

For the author and all the others here that feel that the cop should have done this or done that.... Try this training out and then see if you will be as honest as this man was.... http://www.truthrevolt.org/news/anti-cop-preacher-activist-goes-through-police-traininghas-eye-opening-experience

OP Transplant  

Posted: January 23rd, 2015 10:18 AM

"If the cops left Wrana alone,and he hurt/killed himself w/the knife what would the public opinion be then?" Your logic is unassailable, Brian. By killing Mr. Wrana, the officers prevented him from harming himself. Why isn't the public more grateful?

Brian Slowiak from Westchester  

Posted: January 23rd, 2015 9:44 AM

The OP officer who shot and killed an unarmed minority in 1988 had the police chief at the time speak for his actions. I dont recall a grand jury.No outsiders,no protest.St.Atty looked into I case closed. If the cops left Wrana alone,and he hurt/killed himself w/the knife what would the public opinion be then?I think the cops should have tried something else.imo, to much training sometimes is counter productive,the officers are not required stop,breathe,think.training takes over.


Posted: January 23rd, 2015 6:49 AM

innocent? not even a little. Lets use the correct terms in that a Robber fought against being put in prison where he belonged period. No Race thing No police overuse of force plain and simple if you fight a police office and endanger him or others he will ,can and should shoot your law breaking arse


Posted: January 21st, 2015 4:48 PM

Thank you, US Atty General Eric Holder. Looks like this will all actually, finally end. .. .. Justice Department said ready to clear Ferguson officer: N.Y. Times. .. .. .. http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/01/21/us-usa-police-ferguson-idUSKBN0KU2N820150121


Posted: January 21st, 2015 2:07 PM

all lives matter


Posted: January 20th, 2015 8:54 AM

This has been hashed out so many times in this forum-BROWN WAS NOT KILLED BECAUSE HE STOLE PROPERTY, OR BECAUSE HE WAS J WALKING, OR BECAUSE HE WAS BLACK (AS MANY WOULD BELIEVE), he was killed for resisting arrest, posing a threat, and attacking a police officer. Brown essentially acted like the rioters: The law and police can go to hell, I'll do what ever I damn well please. I think its important for those type people to have fear, they need to know what they're doing can cost them their life2

Robert Beal from Revere  

Posted: January 19th, 2015 8:44 PM

The concern was more between the cop and Brown, shooting to death any citizen for stolen property is not the way our laws work. The conflict between these two ended tragically as we have acknowledged. It's wrong what has been done. It is also wrong to riot, break into stores, rob the places and to set fire to other peoples businesses and properties, those who committed these acts should have been shot at the front doors. We have our courts and if the court rules the verdict stands.

Lee from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: January 19th, 2015 6:20 PM

It's about how police are trained to respond . The chief commended his officers' actions regarding John Wrana. It appears what they may have perceived as a threat from confused and sick 95 year old man warranted the use of deadly force. Should any complaints of police brutality or official misconduct be investigated and instead just accept that cops must free to act without restraint or any oversight?


Posted: January 19th, 2015 6:16 PM

I would however, rather live in a state where the cops are looking for the Michael Browns, and removing them from society (by what ever means available, if they resist arrest), rather than in a state being run by Michael Browns. All these cases cant be clumped together, as all police brutality, needing swift action to reform them. The Michael Browns all know exactly what they are doing, and they enjoy it. Wouldn't it be a lot easier for people to just obey the law, I don't break it, do you?


Posted: January 19th, 2015 6:08 PM

Lee, if this particular case is examined, and found to be like a lot of other cases, I would say there is something wrong- (since some may not be aware of, and responsible, for their behavior), so they should be carefully approached. But there aren't that many with mental conditions. This cant be thrown in with all the "Michael Brown" type cases in the country. The Michael Brown type cases have been handled properly. This isn't a police state where the cops are running amuck

OP Transplant  

Posted: January 19th, 2015 4:44 PM

"It's not a black vs white issue." My point exactly. When the officer is black and the citizen is white, it's not a black vs white issue. But if the officer is white and the citizen black, you can expect everyone from local journalists to the president of the United States to discuss racism.

Lee from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: January 19th, 2015 3:45 PM

Expert testimony offered at the trial concluded that the officer, fearing for safety of all five cops at the scene, acted properly. 95 year old John Wrana had to stopped by whatever means necessary including the use of deadly force. My initial post questioned why less lethal methods are not being employed to gain control of a difficult situation? It's not a black vs white issue. Is the public expected to support all police actions without question? Do they serve and protect us or just themselves

OP Transplant  

Posted: January 19th, 2015 2:59 PM

Mr. Wrana's death was the result of poor police work, certainly. It's an interesting juxtaposition to the article above. No one assumes it was motivated by racism. No demonstrations. No presidential comment. My takeaway is that white officers are assumed to be racist and competent, while black officers are assumed to be incompetent, but not racist.

Lee from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: January 19th, 2015 2:50 PM

@dan, a taser was used by police in an attempt to disable John Wrana but missed the target.. One of the five cops on the scene tesitifed he was prepared to use his service weapon if the bean bags did not bring down the 95 year old.. A sick and frail man had to be stopped! There was no other way. I guess you don't approve of oversight of police agencies and prefer the public should just stay out of it. John Burge would be still on the force if no one had scrutinized his brutal techniques.


Posted: January 19th, 2015 12:55 PM

Lee, I just don't think a bean bag gun would be the weapon of choice for someone that wanted to lethally stop someone with a knife, its used more to incapacitate someone. You know, even if he used a Taser, that would be risky for a 95 yr old. Others have been killed in the past from its use. A police department that is scrutinized for everything that happens would likely become dysfunctional a some point Like a cop in pursuit causing a bad accident, someone could say he shouldn't have chased him


Posted: January 19th, 2015 5:23 AM

No lee. You just wish their was a klan that is responsible for the actions of blacks. You would have a scapegoat then for the pathology the black folks display.

Lee from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: January 18th, 2015 3:08 PM

Looks like the Klan is joining in on the discussion.

Sparky from Los Angeles  

Posted: January 18th, 2015 2:41 PM

Okay I just got off the phone with all the other white people in the world, we have finally decided to come clean. We all secretly get up in the morning and call each other on the phone and think of ways to murder and otherwise inconvenience African-American people. By the way we all decided to unanimously admit also, that black people absolutely never break the law. It's always a conspiracy by Whitey. There, that should clear the air. Have a wonderful day, and please extend my apologies on

Lee from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: January 18th, 2015 1:10 PM

Dan, police were prepared to use deadly force in order to end the confrontation with John Wrana. One expert testifying for the defense in the trial of just one of the officers said that the five cops at the scene showed remarkable restraint in dealing with a confused and frail 95 year old man. The Illinois State Police are telling us that all the actions taken against Wrana were appropriate. That's the disconnect. Peaceful solutions seem no longer the goal and brutal response is now acceptable


Posted: January 18th, 2015 11:05 AM

mary lee, obeying the law is the correct response, of course. Lee, the 95 yr. old did have a knife, was shot with bean bags multiple times, and apparently, later died as a result. The intent however, was not to kill him, even though that was the end result. Interesting though, that it was a black cop, and the old man was white. Did all the whites run out into the streets and riot, ransacking, destroying, and set fires to local businesses?

Lee from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: January 17th, 2015 8:02 PM

If only John Wrana had heeded that advice. The 95 year old might not have been shot if he just had put down the shoe horn and a small knife when five police officers confronted him at the nursing home. Being heavily armed and equipped with protective gear was not simply enough for the cops on scene to feel safe when a confused and sickly old man ignored their direct orders. He had to be shot!

mary lee from collingswood  

Posted: January 17th, 2015 7:46 PM

This will never end because there will always be people who look at the world in terms of black and white. Believe it or not, there are people of every race and walk of life that at one time or other have been "hassled" by police. Lawmen put their lives on the line every day to protect us and, in turn, have every right to protect themselves when threatened. Here is a thought- Don't give officers a reason to go on the defense, don't break the law, act courteous, cooperative when questioned.

Taylor Bryant  

Posted: January 13th, 2015 2:19 PM

Tell me this article didn't say "gassing peaceful protesters". They were protesting but it was everything but peaceful. Ferguson was torn to shreds by fires, looting and general property damage because of the protesting. Small privately owned shops were destroyed and owners lost everything. If that's peaceful the Gandhi and Martin Luther King Jr. had it all wrong.


Posted: January 12th, 2015 10:03 AM

Dean did a lot more than bring on spirited conversation. He did exercise his freedom of speech, and with that, helped to ruin a good, dedicated cop's life. Even more burdensome, was fueling the dormant, but ever perpetual, issue of racial hatred- (it wasn't just the issue of police brutality, or white cops against black teens, it became blacks against whites- In doing so, he helped open the door for the release of all the hate, and the ensuing riots. He's a journalist, and ought to know better

Ray Simpson from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: January 11th, 2015 9:31 AM

Just noticed in the print version of the WJ that Terry Dean threw in the towel and quit. I hope this spirited conversation was in no way responsible for his decision. The role of the opinion section is to get spirited conversation started and Terry hit a home run with this column. We saw every possible opinion, ideology and attitude all stated freely and openly. That is the value of a local paper where residents get to throw in their two cents and neighbors get to rebut what ever they like. Terry wrote this column from the perspective of a black parent a position many of us will never understand. I bet he will wait for more fact checking next time. Good luck Terry I will miss sparring with you.

Ray Simpson from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: January 10th, 2015 7:09 AM

@ Joel - my "dirty Jobs letter is in this weeks WJ and I do thank cops for doing their jobs as well as CIA Spooks. Everyone here, seems to detest FOX news perhaps because they present the other side of the story- one the progressives cannot explain.


Posted: January 10th, 2015 2:33 AM

they are, these people will believe anything the media feeds them because apparently if they don't hear about it (which they only hear anything from the media), it doesn't exist. When asked for proof of good cops they repeatedly badgered me about giving them name and badge number for proof of good cops. Who here actually asks for the name and badge number of cops they think are good? The logic behind these people's views are very flawed, unchangable and we should not waste time on them.


Posted: January 10th, 2015 2:30 AM

Guys, I just went through a 4 hour debate (posting every 10-15 minutes) with someone who was so undeniably ignorant and bigoted that they claimed ALL cops are evil. They said that they have only heard of bad cops and never of good cops. When I said that is because the mainstream media only wants to sell a story and bad cops sell stories, cops doing their jobs don't. They claimed that I was being ignorant because she never mentioned the media. It is impossible to convince these people how wrong..


Posted: January 5th, 2015 9:19 AM

Ray, it doesn't have to make sense, they're going for political correctness. Its ludicrous There's no way police would show this much restraint on a large group of whites doing the same thing. They've actually turned the whole Justus system upside down; where police are criminals, and criminals seek damages, being in the right. The Brown cases is the foundation for all other incidents involving Blacks and police- rather than looked upon as individual cases. Criminals have a voice, based on lies

Ray Simpson from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: January 4th, 2015 6:28 PM

The lies allowed looters to get free stuff. Obama Holder and Sharpton all agreed that the police department was guilty of something or other and should be retrained to respect the rioters. All sounds pretty stupid when you write out the words and attempt to understand it all!


Posted: January 4th, 2015 5:58 PM

Has anything been settled thus far? It has, at times, gotten ugly on the streets and on this forum. I think the biggest mistake made, is not making it absolutely clear that anytime someone pulls a gun on, or attempts to endanger the wellbeing of an officer, they will be shot, (non-negotiable) possibly fatally. This whole Brown case has been based on lies. His hands were up, he was shot in the back. Wilson tried to pull Brown into the car, Brown didn't try to take Wilsons gun. All Based on lies

Eddie from Tucson  

Posted: January 2nd, 2015 5:10 PM

It will only stop when black Americans stop seeking street cred through thuggery!


Posted: January 2nd, 2015 3:15 PM

John and everybody, I just want to apologize for my part of this, its gone to far. Nobody deserves what I've been dishing out lately. There's no middle ground in this quandary. It all comes down to picking a side. On this I choose to side with the police & law enforcement. It seems like a easy thing to me to separate the good people from the bad. Good people don't hang in gangs, commit crimes, or intentionally hurt people. If not caring for those people makes me a racist, then I guess I'm one


Posted: January 2nd, 2015 12:05 PM

The places you listed like France, Ecuador and the others don't have black majorities, you should know that. As far as messing up Einstein, your twisted mind added their criminal tendencies to the locals, not mine, I said locals wouldn't put up with em. This whole Dean article is about the plight of the persecuted black teen isn't it? (no matter what the crime) The focus is on the black offenders not the whites. In Haiti, the whites would be the minority. Would there be a white Sharpton there?


Posted: January 2nd, 2015 11:19 AM

John, you just cant seem to get it right, I listed several different terms used to refer to law breakers (ya' know criminals). I said: the law refers to them as Offenders, or perpetrators- they're criminals. I called them the "you knows" which means criminals, but YOU can call em anything you want (what you will). As far as your "Continents", I listed countries, 2 from Africa, and Haiti. I listed those because the majority of inhabitance in those countries have black skin color only, that's all

Ray Simpson from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: January 2nd, 2015 6:55 AM

Using skin color to advance your own agenda is the worst kind of racism! Finding racial hatred, where none exists is one of the tools of the progressive left as well as J Jackson and A Sharpton. Excusing anti-social behavior and thuggery because of ones race is also racism. In my youth racism meant that you hated all blacks because they were black - period. Today we almost never experience that attitude, but rather see claims of misbehavior and holding people accountable for their own actions as racism. When excuses get old and accountability becomes important these claims should die a long over due death. 2015 - probably not!

OPRF Achievement  

Posted: January 2nd, 2015 6:27 AM

@JohnQ - thx for your insights. I found this on racism "The belief that some races are inherently superior (physically, intellectually, or culturally) to others. So yes, I now can see it is not only possible it does occur - racism whether black, white, yellow etc. So, the issue is not what we do not share in common, but what we do share in common and work to heal from there. That's the New Years goal for me. Peace Out!

John Q  

Posted: January 1st, 2015 5:50 PM

@ WOW, it's not a stupid question. I had an adult man with an Ed. D. from a reputable school tell me blacks cannot be racist no more than two weeks ago. I refuted him, just as I have the others who have mentioned that nonsense to me, but I assure there is a school of thought that suggests it. In fact, the first time I heard of the theory was in college where it was being taught in a class one of my good friends was in. The idea is that racism requires power and blacks don't have it...blah blah

John Q  

Posted: January 1st, 2015 5:29 PM

In your genius you forgot to send the diverse "Ns" of all races and hues to any continent but Africa. I mean wouldn't some of the "Ns" like to go to France, Ireland, Australia, Pakistan, Ecuador?..I mean there are so many places but amazingly you picked three black countries in Africa. Or perhaps my poor reading and critical analysis rendered me unable to reach the depths of your intellectual prowess. Probably not though. Re-read your own comments Einstein. Racist idk but definitely not bright.

John Q  

Posted: January 1st, 2015 5:23 PM

Reality, for the sake of this argument I admit to your accusations. My analysis is poor, I don't read well, I pick and choose minor parts of arguments and you stepped on my toes. Now aside from that...I didn't "call them what [I] will"..I called them what YOU CALLED "THEM." Please put this into perspective for me, my poor reading comprehension and all...what exactly did you mean about the "Ns", supposedly of all races, going to specifically to Haiti, Niger and Kenya?


Posted: January 1st, 2015 5:18 PM

@Ray, I'm going to respond to some detractors listed below, then I will cease. Wow and J, Q I well may be a racist, if I am, everybody that I know, and even people I don't know very well, feel the same way. As far as insinuating that I implied Haiti, Kenya, or Niger- majorities are criminals" is incorrect. They would be majority in skin color alone- and I stated "they wont tolerate their crimes" The violence committed, all the gang & drug related shootings all committed by"N"s- the terms fitting


Posted: January 1st, 2015 4:27 PM

Hey Q, pretty poor analysis. You're not too good at reading, you pick out what you want? I don't know Chris Rock. Perhaps I've stepped on your toes? The law calls them "offenders", or "perpetrators" that's the distinction- they're criminals. If you read, you'll see that I was carful at separating "you know" from whites and blacks. The "you knows" can be white or black, they're Criminals. Call them what you will but, they're still in a separate category from law abiding citizens, are they not?

Ray Simpson from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: January 1st, 2015 3:57 PM

The last post was "the mark of the beast" We should end this here and now!

Ray Simpson from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: January 1st, 2015 1:15 PM

@WOW - and since those who lied supported the poor child Mike Brown, the yelps from Brown's family would have been overwhelming had the prosecutor denied their chance to purger themselves. This whole situation has gone from tragic to sad to stupid - thanks Terry Dean!


Posted: January 1st, 2015 11:00 AM



Posted: January 1st, 2015 10:50 AM

Stupid question, racism knows no bounds. How do folks feel about the St Louis prosecutor allowing a witness he knew wasn't at the scene and knew was lying to testify to the grand jury? Ever hear of subornation of perjury?


Posted: January 1st, 2015 10:47 AM



Posted: January 1st, 2015 10:44 AM

Oh, and yes, two of those knuckleheads went on to murder cops and a civilian in an effort to start a far right revolution.


Posted: January 1st, 2015 10:42 AM

Remember when those white supremacist knuckleheads supporting Cliven Bundy trained their weapons on law enforcement officers? Were any shot? No. Arrested? No. Did any go on to kill police officers and a civilian later on? Where was all this obey the cops stuff then?

OPRF Achievement  

Posted: January 1st, 2015 10:21 AM

@Wow, is it possible in your opinion for a Black individual to be a racist?


Posted: January 1st, 2015 10:04 AM

There seem to be a lot of folks who think the penalty for stealing a box of cigs and talking back to a cop is summary execution. Yet a white woman recently went on a shooting spree, shooting up her Chattanooga neighborhood, taking shots at passing cars from her car WHILE THE POLICE WERE CHASING HER, and she was arrested without incident. Interesting, isn't it? By the way, if you use N to mean you know what, you're a racist.

John Q  

Posted: December 31st, 2014 8:06 PM

Reality, you have done well at making yourself look like an @$s. You keep talking about these "Ns" because maybe you feel you're continuing Chris Rock's differentiation between blacks and...well you know. This is where you failed in your attention getting stunt..you say the "Ns" will fit in as "part of a majority" in "Haiti, Kenya or Niger" which directly implies that those 3 countries are overpopulated with "Ns". Let me guess moron, you're not racist just pointing out facts. Nice fail..."N."

Sarah lockard  

Posted: December 31st, 2014 6:11 PM

There are many whites and blacks that get killed by police. All people talk about is how they got shot. They do not tell they just robbed a store or something bad. You should never ever even talk back to our policemen. You do what they tell you and speak later. Most bad people deserve this action.


Posted: December 31st, 2014 6:03 PM

To finish up my ranting, I do agree that the N's have been treated badly, compared to blacks and whites, so I offer a reasonable solution; I invite you to leave the country, and go to Haiti, Kenya, or Niger where you can be part of a majority (but they don't take lightly and tolerate your crimes like this sad nation does) Also, if you want to act like terrorists, you should really be treated as terrorists.They have no rights, go to trial as terrorists, and be put away without any human rights

Bill Dwyer  

Posted: December 28th, 2014 10:34 AM

page 209 of the grand jury transcript of the officer's testimony: .. "When I start looking at Brown, first thing I notice is in his right hand, his hand is full of Cigarillos. And that's when it clicked for me because I now saw the Cigarillos. I looked in my mirror, I did a double check that Johnson was wearing a black shirt, these are the two from the stealing."

Bill Dwyer  

Posted: December 28th, 2014 10:16 AM

I've read them too, John Q, and I recall him testifying he spotted proceeds from the store robbery or theft and made the connection. The following is from Newsweek: .. According to Wilson, Brown replied: "F*** what you have to say." Noticing Brown was holding Cigarillos and Johnson's attire matched the description of those involved in the robbery he had earlier heard over his radio, Wilson suspected these were the men involved and called for backup.


Posted: December 28th, 2014 9:14 AM

L Palmer you talk like a man with a paper A-hole. Still got that mentality going around, where the actual facts are ignored and replaced by what some people want to be the truth. Is it possible that all those people that said his hands were up, didn't actually see his hands up, but instead took the word of a proven liar- Jonson? Do you think that lots of blacks would stick up for other blacks, no matter how unseemly their demeanor is? You people need to stop sticking up for criminals like Brown.

John Q  

Posted: December 27th, 2014 6:01 PM

Bill Dwyer, where did you read that reasoning for Wilson backing up? I've read the radio transcripts and the interviews and while I could be wrong...I thought that Wilson told them to leave the middle of the street, the witness said we're just going right here or there and as they continued in the street Wilson believed he heard Brown use an expletive and hostile language which is why he backed up. If memory serves me correct the robbery was broadcast by then and it was still thought to be theft

Kevin Peppard from Oak Park  

Posted: December 27th, 2014 5:34 PM

@Bill Dwyer: Plus there were THREE autopsies that showed no entry wounds from the back, including one by the Feds, and one at Brown's parents' behest. Also, Brown's blood & tissue was found inside the cop's SUV, where Brown had a gunshot graze and powder residue on his forearm, consistent with the struggle for the cop's gun. P.S.: We met years ago when you & I & Officer Slowiak were at the Golden trial in front of Judge Ginex.

Bill Dwyer  

Posted: December 27th, 2014 5:12 PM

L. Palmer needs to check his own understanding of the documented facts, which are that the officer originally told Brown and his companion to get out of the street, then backed up to question him after the call of the store robbery was dispatched and Brown matched the description of the offender. And the autopsy showed conclusively that Brown was NOT shot from the back.

L Palmer from Chicago  

Posted: December 27th, 2014 12:34 PM

Check your facts: Michael Brown was a bully and a petty thief (video). The officer had no knowledge of a theft earlier that day. Officer was NOT attempting to arrest him. He stopped him for Jay-walking. MICHAEL BROWN HAD NO CRIMINAL RECORD. Why would he struggle for the officer's gun? Why was he shot and killed from 24 ft away in the back and front? WHY DID IT TAKE 100 DAYS BEFORE THE OFFICER MADE A STATEMENT? Would a police officer lie to save his job and to keep from being charged with murder?

Jay holland from Austin  

Posted: December 26th, 2014 4:55 PM

This madness will stop when young black men armed or not learn to respect the law. Micheal brown had a long history of bullying and abuse of others. He was a punk. With know respect for law. He attacked that officer an got shot for being a theft , a bully and a idiot


Posted: December 24th, 2014 11:44 AM



Posted: December 24th, 2014 10:57 AM

There's already a website for the latest shooting. Saying,"the protests will never stop". while another said "he had his whole life ahead of him" Sounds more like he had his whole life of crime ahead of him. If anybody really cared him, they didn't show it- did a lousy job of raising him, and all those great role models to look up to. Now, if the body's left out there too long-"they just leave him lay there like he's a dog". but, If the body's removed too quickly: "they just tryn to hide stuff"?


Posted: December 24th, 2014 10:03 AM

The protesters should be out there marching and chanting we will no longer tolerate crime in our neighborhood. The black man's mother from Berkley said her son didn't have a gun, he was just going to his girlfriends house. As of she was actually walking with him, and really gave a damn about what her thug son was up to. They good at fabrication story's, like the mother that said her son didn't have a gun, it was a sandwich. That's ok, it just so happened that the cop had a salami on rye with him


Posted: December 24th, 2014 9:29 AM

Another foolish black man from Berkley won't be celebrating Christmas this year. It almost like these people are deliberately doing this- as if to become a martyrs. The fastest way to be shot & killed by a cop, (any color) is to point a gun at em, even guns that just look real (ask the 12 yr. old). This is a community problem, and the bloodshed is on their own hands.This whole twisted logic of "cops, they're the enemy" mentality doesn't address the real problem- that the crimes are acceptable

john murtagh from op  

Posted: December 22nd, 2014 4:33 PM

"Damn, when will this madness ever end?' Terry Dean. I seen anger and despair in his quote and I shared his feeling when I first read it. After more than 600 posts and 134 days of posting, I find the continued racial tennis match to be useless. It is not bringing us together. It is not the steps that will end the madness. May you all have a Peaceful Holiday.

anonymous saying from Crystal lake  

Posted: December 22nd, 2014 2:11 PM

Do not take this the wrong way please. Those "peaceful" protesters were not as peaceful as you think. They burned down buildings,destroyed cars and assaulted others. As for the police shooting the kid they were sitting in their car when the kid came and started pounding on the car with his fists. The told him to stop and when he continued to charge at the car they only had one thing to do. I know it probably wasn't the best thing to do but there's nothing you can do about it.

OP Res 253  

Posted: December 22nd, 2014 1:55 PM

@JM I disagree with you in this case. Read the end of Mr. Deans article. He wants to know when the madness of innocent blacks being gunned down by racist cops will end. That 'epidemic' narrative is continuing, and resulting in chaos, destruction and cop deaths amid a race baiting induced mayhem. We're that not true, the false narrative would not need to be challenged. I think that is largely the point of the continued interest.

Truth teller 99 from newfane  

Posted: December 22nd, 2014 1:16 PM

Michael Brown was beating the cop and he was severely injured. Officer Wilson had every right to shoot Michael because he is a low life criminal who was being a disgrace against society.

john murtagh from op  

Posted: December 22nd, 2014 11:55 AM

My objections to a 134 day debate is the excessive coverage of a volatile issue. The original post was from a WJ writer. That post was followed by periodic posts the same WJ writer. Early into the 134 day debate, there was no new information/news. The comments became a repetitive exchange of viral and biased opinions. During the 134 days the WJ Writer added comments as if it was his responsibility to keep the issue alive. Enough is Enough.

Brian Slowiak from Westchester  

Posted: December 22nd, 2014 9:48 AM

@ fyi: What are the chances the Proviso incident will never be considered a race issue?

Ray Simpson from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: December 22nd, 2014 8:58 AM

@ John Murtagh - Killing the conversation would be wrong! People are talking about what happened and why. All of a sudden we are seeing cause and effect right in front of our eyes. We are seeing prejudice acted out and what can happen when people do things when only half informed. Change minds - probably not - Temper opinions - possibly - but, people are talking and expressing opinions. That is a good thing.

OP Transplant  

Posted: December 21st, 2014 11:00 PM

Leave the picture! It's the best kind of funny - self-righteous, unintentional funny. They ought to teach this article in journalism schools, as part of a lesson about not lecturing your readers until you have at least a few facts straight.

John Murtagh from OP  

Posted: December 21st, 2014 10:51 PM

For 134 days, Dean's photograph with his hands raised has been on the website day after day, after day. What value did the 134 days have. Did it bring the two angry sides closer? No!. Did the bitter posts (both sides) lead to an effective dialog that offered solutions? No! Did it make the world a better place to live? No! Did it make the WJ a scandal sheet for four months? Yes! Take it down; it is a disgrace!

Ray Simpson from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: December 21st, 2014 10:07 PM

@ John Murtagh - it seems that this is a pretty spirited conversation with only a few foul mouth comments. The community seems interested in expressing it's viewpoint and is willing to defend it's rational. I am sure that Mr Dean had no idea what a bucket of worms he was opening and wonder if he would do it again. Perhaps he will do a follow up with more facts and fewer feelings.


Posted: December 21st, 2014 4:54 PM

John, the only way that it will end, is if the police stop doing their job. Otherwise, It will no more cease, than the middle east conflict. You cant reason with them, they don't have any intelligence, and you cant make them understand. All they know is how to hustle, deal drugs, kill, assault and rob people-that's all. Not using lethal force puts the police, and the general population at risk. Prisons are choked to death with them. All they have to do is: STOP COMMITTING CRIMES, but they can't?


Posted: December 21st, 2014 1:12 PM

Proviso East Security Guard, Basketball Coach Donnie Boyce Suspended After Choking Incident.. .. http://www.forestparkreview.com/News/Articles/12-21-2014/Proviso-East-Security-Guard,-Basketball-Coach-Donnie-Boyce-Suspended-After-Choking-Incident/

john murtagh from op  

Posted: December 21st, 2014 12:54 PM

Seems to me that it is time for the Wednesday Journal 's to shut down the "Police shoot unarmed black man - Will this ever end? article. 629 Post and two NYPD policemen shot down in cold blood is enough. The answer to Dean question is "It will probably never end!."

diane george from kenosha  

Posted: December 21st, 2014 9:20 AM

Why would anyone in their right mind think it's o.k. to assault a police officer? Did not their parents teach them anything?!

diane george from kenosha  

Posted: December 21st, 2014 9:14 AM

It will end when ALL people respect each other...AND obey the law. Police already have a dangerous job. They don't need harassment & disrespect also.


Posted: December 21st, 2014 9:11 AM

N's (not blacks) want respect and equality, and what have they don't to deserve it? The N's go around killing each other everyday, they break the law everyday, they deal drugs, murderer, and steal and lie. I know your thinking, other people do exactly the same thing everyday, and your absolutely right, The difference? They're not out there cryn "racists we bein mistreated" You don't see any other groups saying we want this, and we want that, and we don't deserve it, but we still want it racist


Posted: December 21st, 2014 8:33 AM

Bill and Dean, yes racism is alive and well, got fired up when a thug named Michael Brown, being under arrest, resisted arrest and attacked a cop- that's all proven history now. It was the N puke that screamed racial profiling- its the white cops killing us law abiding citizens As has been pointed out, there's a distinction between blacks and the other N puke that goes around hiding behind good law abiding citizens puke knows no color, white, black doesn't matter, and the world doesn't need em

Ray Simpson from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: December 21st, 2014 6:18 AM

I assume that "Dean" is NOT Terry Dean Wednesday Journal writer!

Ray Simpson from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: December 21st, 2014 6:14 AM

@ Bill - interesting that you inject the mentally ill into this conversation. Look at the mass murders of late. Almost all of them have been by people who do not have the capacity to tell right from wrong and society owes it to them and all of us to insure safety. The rest seem to be terrorists who are hell bent to disrupt our daily lives. How do you provide this safety without putting restrictions on their activity? State mental hospitals were the answer long ago. They went away because political corruption theft and bad people created the infamous "Snake pits" Freedom comes with responsibilities and protecting the incompetent is a worthy goal. That responsibly includes those who are charged with caring for the mentally ill and all of us who should be monitoring the treatment.


Posted: December 21st, 2014 1:03 AM

Stop for a minute and look at what too many have written. Condemnation based on race. Too few of you have become better than your parents and grandparents. You are filled with disgust. Because you don't see that a Mentally ill person can be a person. Instead he is something to be put away, far from the righteous existence that is yourself. sadness to see suck worthless people still exist.

Ray Simpson from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: December 20th, 2014 10:42 PM

So Dean, statement of fact is defined by you as racism? Most of what has been submitted is pointing out the obvious misunderstanding or intentional mis-statement of the facts. Very little content centers upon the color of anyones skin but, rather the antisocial behavior and a willingness to lay proper blame.


Posted: December 20th, 2014 9:50 PM

Racism is still alive and its all over these comments

Ray Simpson from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: December 20th, 2014 7:25 PM

The nobel protesters in New York chanted "Kill Cops" so one of their brilliant brethren did just that. This dumb thug stuck a gun into a cop car and executed 2 police officers. Be careful what you ask for - - -.

Myke Britt from Hendersonville  

Posted: December 20th, 2014 7:02 PM

LEO s shooting black thugs will stop when the thugs quit rioting, stealing, killing and attacking LEO"S . NOT BEFORE AND IT SHOULDN'T!!!


Posted: December 18th, 2014 12:50 PM

They have no skill sets to be of any value to society. Most are dropouts, and I'd be willing to bet, that even those like Brown, who graduated, it was thru intimidation. All they know is gang banging, drug dealing, hustling and violence. That's how they were brought up- in the "hood"- they created the "hood". How can you change when for all practical purposes your an outcast, and completely worthless to society. They're not willing to accept that fact, and so change will never occur- its denied


Posted: December 18th, 2014 12:37 PM

Its interesting to look at different websites to get a perspective of how blacks view others that don't see things like they do. Some blacks slam the trouble makers-hard. On views that support self change is also needed, most had favorable responses, but there's always a percentage of hard core "we want violence", "that's the only change that works"! I'm astonished that group exists for so many. But I realized why there will always be those mal fits, for a very simple reason-THATS ALL THEY KNOW


Posted: December 18th, 2014 7:27 AM

Its been over 4 months since the shooting. I haven't seen any retraction statements from Dean, related to this article. Clearly, had Brown complied, he would still be alive. Even having been shot, he could have gotten on the ground as ordered by Wilson. We still have about 10% of the goons out there acting the fool.They still out there doin lots of crime- that hasn't changed. We still have people like Dean and Sharpton screaming: prejudice murders, racists- Damn, when will this madness ever end?


Posted: December 18th, 2014 5:29 AM

All Blacks can be referred to as African Americans, but they are not necessarily from the same country in Africa, so this may come as a painful blow to some whites and some blacks. The only difference between blacks and whites is the external color. They are basically the same on the inside, morals, values, beliefs. But the others from that come from the Republic of Niger may look the same on the outside, but are very different on the inside

sarah from Denver   

Posted: December 17th, 2014 7:42 PM

Try not breaking the law and see if you get shot. Try just being a respectable member of society.


Posted: December 15th, 2014 12:41 PM

NW, you're going to have to come up with something better than that, those words have already been considered and rejected. Don Lemon (from CNN news) also tried to come up with some positive ways to solve some of the problems: Stop having children out of wedlock, pull up your pants, get an education... Things that society expects from civilized American people. Lemon got slammed for remarks, too simple. So we have to accept the fact that they commit crimes, and want to be handled very gently

NW Reader from Seattle  

Posted: December 15th, 2014 11:15 AM

It's really simple. Obey the law, and if ordered to do something by a police officer, do it. If all the people screaming about their children not being safe actually "parented" their kids, knew where they were, who they were with and what they were doing, and taught them right from wrong, they wouldn't have a problem. You break the law and resist arrest (and try to fight for control of an officer's weapon), you're going to get hurt - it's that simple!


Posted: December 13th, 2014 5:26 PM

Its too bad that Michael Browns actions couldn't be deleted, instead his life was, so it did work out in the end.. Who made him commit those crimes? Did not his community back him up, and didn't his community lie about what really happened? A big difference between White trash and whites is whites don't stick up for the white trash, and the white trash community wont stick up for the trash either, they are on their own. Most of the comments here don't even address the festering, malignant crime

Mose from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: December 13th, 2014 12:50 PM

Profanity seems to show up on weekends when the forum cannot be monitored fro offensive postings. Too bad this nasty comment won't deleted until Monday. Hope it will be deleted.

OP Transplant  

Posted: December 12th, 2014 12:49 PM

I agree with Uncommon. If you don't put your fate into the hands of the criminal justice system, you have a lot less to worry about.

Uncommon Sense  

Posted: December 12th, 2014 12:39 PM

@One, I agree there are some institutional issues with the justice system... which is why as a black man I don't put myself in situations where I get caught up in it. Personal responsibility can work wonders for your life if you just accept it.

One difference  

Posted: December 12th, 2014 12:16 PM

Ray, I agree with you. If it were the case that the inequities in the system were mostly conscious they would be easier to change. It's the subconscious and structural forces at work that need change. And those are harder to deal with because often times they are not immediately apparent. But that doesn't mean they don't exist.

Mose from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: December 12th, 2014 11:40 AM

Good call, Double Standard.

Ray Simpson from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: December 12th, 2014 7:14 AM

@ SYMBOLIC OK I just do not believe that the majority of white people get up every morning trying to figure out how to do in black people. There are more important things in our lives.


Posted: December 12th, 2014 12:15 AM

@Ray -- it is statistically proven over and over that the criminal justice system disproportionally goes after blacks. 10 white and 10 black do a deed. You will find 1 white and 7 black in the criminal justice system. Saying there is no racism is not to recognize it which i understand and appreciate but it's there. and ti's very very there institutionally. Sony Studios had emails hacked -- check out all the racist emails about OBAMA this was yesterday. Racism thrives.Believe it to help it.

Double standard  

Posted: December 11th, 2014 9:10 PM

Some of the comments here are more offensive than what appeared under the Bali murder story. Those comments were quickly disabled yet here we are 600 comments later with people referring to N blacks and other insults.


Posted: December 11th, 2014 6:07 PM

See if I'm not right. my final posting


Posted: December 11th, 2014 6:01 PM

Somehow, the N blacks are going to have to be separated from the blacks, because they're piggyback riding on the rest of the black population. Michael Brown was the much needed resident savior of the N world. They found it all in they're martyr: Michael Brown. So from now on, the N will commit the crime, and if caught and apprehended, will scream racist brutality. Ray I don't share your view on racial hatred not being the American way. Its a turning point in the United States and just begining


Posted: December 11th, 2014 5:43 PM

It stinks, makes a mess and it doesn't solve anything, its like negotiating with terrorists- maybe worse. Terrorists show some sings of intelligence. This vomit is home grown, and it lives in some America neighborhood. The real problem is not about cops being too ruff, Its about crime- and how its tolerated, and even condoned by the "N" blacks, in predominantly black neighborhoods. Look at the feedback on "the straight shooter" They want to downplay crime as just part of daily living in the city

Ray Simpson from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: December 11th, 2014 12:09 PM

I do not believe there is any group in the United States who hate countless numbers of people because of their color or any other reason. There is hatred toward those who hurt others physically or mentally. That is an individual sentiment and has nothing to do with undercurrents of racial hatred. That is a liberal/political issue. If a sizable group of AA students fail it has more to do with their unwillingness to participate than anyone holding them back because of skin color. I believe that any kid of any color who asks for help at OPRF High School will get as much or more than he needs. If he chooses not to ask he lost a golden opportunity. The idea of racial hatred is not the way Americans feel or act. The police have the same moral compass and save a few bad apples they do a difficult job with very little appreciation. We need to stop listening to those who find fault with everyone else and everything they try to do.

Pari from Pittsburgh  

Posted: December 11th, 2014 10:10 AM

Why aren't the protesters/race agitaters talking about the crimes that these people committed in the 1st place? It suggests, "it's ok to be a criminal, f the community and the police, we want to do what we want and get by w it" Y not teach your kids not to commit crimes? That is my discussion as a black parent...less likely to be in contact w the police. How does a cop know if someone is unarmed? People want to sue and have an excuse to loiter. Noones talking about what brought the cops there

Me from Me  

Posted: December 10th, 2014 2:46 PM

It will end when black men stop committing 5x the crime of any other ethnic group per capita. Take responsibility, for once! Stop blaming others, for once!


Posted: December 9th, 2014 8:31 AM

I see a lot of demonstrators on TV, and they want change, they want but seem unwilling to give. Are they going to change? See, if they had, changed from their past behavior, none of this would have happened. Are they going to change and stop their bullshit steadfast course/attitudes to commit crime? -stealing cars, robberies, assaults, and murders? Why don't I hear that on TV? Some other websites have blacks telling them to do the right thing, and they get back insults from some of their viewers

crankyd from Chicago  

Posted: December 9th, 2014 4:15 AM

As far as what has happened recently in Staten Island NY... that IS disgusting. How can a cop that was shown to use an absolutely PROHIBITED hold around someone's throat POSSIBLY not be charged? But please... the two incidents CANNOT be compared in any way; let's not muddy justice.

crankyd from Chicago  

Posted: December 9th, 2014 4:07 AM

Michael Brown was the absolute most PROBLEMATIC, if not the WORST person to use as a martyr for the very real problem of unrestrained police violence. While I feel sorry for his family and anyone that cred for and loved him... i have ZERO pity for him. The convenience store footage taken mere minutes before his death is absolutely damning that i feel he should have been shot right then and there. The End. I've been involved on both sides of the law; i understand the mindset of both sides.

Danny from North Brunswick  

Posted: December 8th, 2014 8:15 PM

One more thing,Since you want bullys,thugs,criminals making up there own rules you should move to Newark NJ,Washington DC or Atlanta Gerogia ,you will fit right in .The cops there dont give a dam and only arrive after someone is dead. You will get a hell of a bargain on a house! Al sharpton move from your white neighborhood and send your kids to inner city school then you would be in touch with the people, you FAKE.

danny from north brunswick  

Posted: December 8th, 2014 7:59 PM

I was taught since i was small to respect people and the police. NO iam not white.Civilains like you have no idea what it is to be a police officer and the laws.So you come up with the STUPIT comment of licking your wounds? this is not a thug gang fight . You can not make up your own rules ,you can not do what you want ! If you want to be a bad ass and you aint scared of the police then your asking for trouble and your going to find it. My son who is half black was taught to respect the police .

danny from north brunswick  

Posted: December 8th, 2014 7:38 PM

TERRY DEAN you genius ! The police dept. in America are there to serve protect Lawfull citizens and enforce the laws including criminal ,ordinance,motor vehicle laws and petty disorderly crimes. The police have the power of ARREST, the police have no obligation to retreat or back away.The police can use deadly force which means the possibilty of taking a suspects life if the officer feels and can prove in court that such force was used when a life is in danger. continued .


Posted: December 8th, 2014 5:59 PM

I feel bad for the family but even so people need to stop the riots. And as horrible as it sounds death happens. Its life. I should know i lost my brother a few weeks ago.


Posted: December 8th, 2014 12:23 PM

The black community should be the ones to straighten out the black problem. The problem is, they don't know how. The good blacks don't want to associate with the ones causing all the problems- (the term used in the 1960's would still be appropriate for these rioters) and they cant control them any better than the police. I think the only thing they've really managed to do is to reignited racism. Lot of angry people out here. The Klan is probably loving all of this, hoping for a rebirth.

OP Transplant  

Posted: December 8th, 2014 9:51 AM

I think there's a generational piece to how people respond to these incidents. I grew up dark-skinned in bad neighborhoods. I was taught how to safely interact with the police. I knew as a kid that if you go for a cop's gun, you're going to get shot. Brandish what looks like a real gun at the police, you're going to get shot. I read these reports and think, what the hell's wrong with them? Didn't they know this would get them killed?

Cedric from Nunya  

Posted: December 8th, 2014 9:26 AM

Article is a pretty misleading as usual. Brown didnt just steal a box of cigars. He grabbed the store owner by his shirt which is assualt.way to play it down and lie. Also, the officer wasnt told to shoot on sight, liar, the thug attacked the officer which would get anyone killed.

Ray Simpson from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: December 8th, 2014 6:18 AM

Is the bottom line of this conversation, that we need to require police officers to apply the law differently for a group of societal outcasts? Why? If the law or it's enforcement is unfair - change the law. Young black men are stopped more often than anyone else because they are where a greater percentage of problems originate. That problem should be addressed in the black community or in the legislature.. All of this conversation has happened because a police officer defended himself from a large black man who tried to get his gun as he was leaving a crime scene. That was the logic as seen by the grand jury and they came to the only decision possible. Ferguson's looters and rioters do not care about Michael Brown or his family, they wanted their "free stuff" The politicians wept their crocodile tears but are only interested political gain from a tragic crisis. We all have participated here because we believe we care. The law was broken and in the course of events a young man died. Had the outcome reversed and officer Wilson died would Terry Dean even have commented? I venture not!

Brian Slowiak from Westchester  

Posted: December 7th, 2014 10:54 AM

Mose: I did know a few officers on the job who had no business being police officers.. A few of them were exempt rank, that is appointed. Some were patrol officers. and of course the Oak Park Police Officer who shot and killed an unarmed minority, was welcome back into the department by the chief and community and promoted.

Jim from South Oak Park  

Posted: December 7th, 2014 9:55 AM

Mike Brown has become the poster child for a subculture that is more violent, more criminal and more defiant than the American middle class. And the protests demand that the middle class should accept violent, criminal and defiant norms. Terry Dean suggests that if you get you butt whipped in a fight, "Just lick your wounds and move on." So, if a thug can whip a cop in a fistfight, then the cop just slinks away. If that's the new "justice," I don't want it.


Posted: December 7th, 2014 8:34 AM

Seeing more and more black killing by white police. The stories begin with a similar headline: "another unarmed black man killed by police". After being on this website for a while, I have to wonder how much is truth, VS B.S. One of them parallels Browns case where a friend said let me say he was no angel, but he still deserved due process. Why does this happen? What's wrong with people? Does anybody out there have an answer? If crime's the only life they know- then maybe death should follow

John Q  

Posted: December 6th, 2014 6:38 PM

(contd) Your assertion that the 12 year old boy committed no crime is unfactual, despite how you feel. People called 911, some saying a gun was pointed at them...there is the assault piece, the mere threat. The fact the pellet gun looked real aggravated the assault. It is a felony. In these conversations little progress is made because what we feel and think and believe is being prioritized over what is documented as law and judicial precedent. Yes, he could have been charged with a felony.

Joe Q  

Posted: December 6th, 2014 6:33 PM

Mose and Uncommon Sense: A person commits aggravated assault when, in committing an assault, he or she does any of the following: (1) Uses a deadly weapon, an air rifle as defined in the Air Rifle Act, OR ANY DEVICE MANUFACTURED AND DESIGNED TO BE SUBSTANTIALLY SIMILAR IN APPEARANCE TO A FIREARM, other than by discharging a firearm. This is directly from Illinois' statutes. While I don't know what Ohio's laws say I think it would strange if they greatly differed.


Posted: December 6th, 2014 4:49 PM

Seems people like Brown go out of their way to break laws. Non conformist. They go by street law- what ever they can get away with. So if you look at everything that has occurred in the past year, all could have been avoided if the law was respected. The 12 yr old boy, he knew right from wrong. He had a realistic looking weapon, took the colored center peace out of the barrel, no doubt to make it look more realistic. He wanted realistic, not some silly toy looking thing, and pointed at the cops?


Posted: December 6th, 2014 4:39 PM

There is a division, right VS wrong. If everyone was well educated, there shouldn't be controversy with regards to that. Is it a difficult concept to grasp- right VS wrong? The bigger controversy is how we deal with wrong when it occurs. Is it too much to expect people to do right? Is stealing cigars and pushing people around, assaulting cops, right or wrong? Laws were drafted to be in the best interest of the public- to protect. Is walking down the middle of the road right or wrong? Obey laws!

Cmj from Oak park  

Posted: December 6th, 2014 3:30 PM

This is to controversial an issue to be talked about online. So much misinformation and opinions are being expressed in the comments section. Articles like this (as well written and informative as they are) creates an online presence of division within our well educated and diverse community.


Posted: December 6th, 2014 3:24 PM

Guys there's no big mystery to how to avoid these life/death situations: Obey the law. As I'm typing this block, Cops is on TV, guess who they're chasing for expired tags- after a long chase, they find the car's been stolen, (not reported yet). Did I mention how to avoid these tragic situations : Obey the law. The foot chase just ended, took down a young black male, pants halfway down his butt. There is absolutely no respect from these people, whether they are 12, 22, 32 or .....OBEY THE LAW!

Mose from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: December 6th, 2014 2:30 PM

I stilll have no idea what you are talking about, Brian. You "insist" I speak out? I believe that's what I've been doing. Our current discourse on this subject has likely run it's course. Carry on but without me. Thanks for sharing a police officer's perspective .I agree it's fair to wait until all the information has been released.

OP Transplant  

Posted: December 6th, 2014 12:02 PM

"I realize that white people are brought up in a society clouded by racial mythology." Interesting that you assume everyone you disagree with is white, Bob. I'm not, but I do believe that this recent round of police shootings is characterized by victims who put themselves and the officers in a bad spot, and who forced the officers to make a decision about the use of force.

Brian Slowiak from Westchester  

Posted: December 6th, 2014 11:09 AM

Mose; I insist you speak out. Your statements have a limit to them because of weight and credibility. As do all statements. SOP w/us was to disengage the PO who is escalating, to the point of taking over the call , paperwork and disposition, if possible.

Brian Slwiak from Westchester  

Posted: December 6th, 2014 10:56 AM

Mose: The purpose of the horse tale is get in very close or stay away.Two seconds upon arrival does not take into consideration what the police officer saw or heard prior to arrival. I neither support or defend, I do understand because there by the grace of god went I. I will wait for all the information to come out. Will You?Training doesnot evolve around what I consider the proper procedures, but what the departmental considers proper procedure.

Bob Simpson from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: December 6th, 2014 10:36 AM

Police killings of unarmed African Americans have been a plague for decades. I went to my first public hearing about that in 1970 when I was living in Maryland. And it had been going on for a long time before that. What we are seeing now is a multiracial uprising against the institutional racism that makes these police killings possible, led by some very impressive Black youth. I realize that white people are brought up in a society clouded by racial mythology. I certainly was, but try to see beyond that so you can support our efforts to end this scourge of summary executions. White denial equal white complicity.


Posted: December 6th, 2014 8:05 AM

Worried about being shot? Seriously? STOP BREAKING THE LAW ! STOP RESISTING! DON'T APPEAR TO BEING PUTTING THE LIFE OF A COP IN DANGER! IT'S NOT A BLACK THANG or a WHITE THANG. Blacks I swear what do you expect a cop to do in real life on the job experience when you play as if you going to do something you'll regret? Get a job. Go to church. be a productive citizen in life and you wouldn't have to protest . All I have read is black stupidity. News media pushing the race issue. Job security.

OP Transplant  

Posted: December 6th, 2014 5:51 AM

"...you find that the police officers acted properly and the boy got just what he deserved." Mose, a number of commenters have made this jump. Understand that it's possible to put yourself in a position in which being shot by the police is the most likely outcome, without deserving to be shot. Neither Brown nor this 12-year-old deserved to be shot, but it's likely that they created situations in which the officers were trained to respond with deadly force.

Mose from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: December 6th, 2014 12:44 AM

I don't understand the point of your horse tale, Brian. Are you talking about the police shooting a 12 year old within 2 seconds of arriving on the scene or you own decision not to fire your weapon at the kid on Lake Street? It's suprising that you are willing to support/defend the tactics employed by these officers. It's a good thing you were never in a position to instruct or train personnel on what you consider the proper procedures to follow when a minor child is involved. Shoot first!?

Mose from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: December 6th, 2014 12:26 AM

Brian, the new chief was not aware of the previous evaluation. Read the report that found him lacking in many areas including responding to pressure. You failed to comment on your personal experience during 30 years of service. Did you ever have an occasion to interact with a person who you viewed as not suited for the job? My decision not seek employment as a police officer should not exclude me from commenting on the issue. That's a silly position to hold and certainly limits the discussion.

Brian Slowiak from Westchester  

Posted: December 6th, 2014 12:16 AM

There are two ways to walk behind a horse so the horse cant kick you. Walk so close your arm touches the tail. or walk ten feet away from the tail. Offense has an advantage, they work from a plan. Defense must adjust to the offense plan, which is not known to them. people w/guns, you get in so close they cant use the weapon or stay far enough away (30 Feet) so they cant hit you.We were as close as conjoined twins in the womb.Hand on the revolver helped stop him. I was ready.

Brian Slowiak from Westchester  

Posted: December 5th, 2014 11:53 PM

Mose, you are not everyone. You might be saying is that you are not capable of the challenge of the job and you don't wish to rise to the challenge, failure or not. The officers old police chief had an opinion, the officers new police chief did not share that same opinion. Neither did the training officers of either department, because those training officers opinioned the officer could do the job. Two training officers and one chiefs opinion against the one opinion of a chief.

Mose from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: December 5th, 2014 11:24 PM

Brian, not everyone is capable of serving as a law enforcement officer. I'm sure you must have encountered an individual in your 30 years who demonstrated to you they were not suited for the job. That was the evaluation by the chief of the police department who previously employed the officer who gunned down this boy. Glad to read you didn't use deadly force when faced with a similiar situation. What stopped you from killing that kid on Lake Street?

Brian Slowiak from Westchester  

Posted: December 5th, 2014 10:39 PM

@ Mose: I all ready did 30 years of police work. I don't know if I would have killed a 12 year old. I did have a kid pull a toy gun on me while I was riding the three wheel motorcycle at the Lake Theatre. The question to be asked is why don't you become a police officer and accept the challenge for yourself?

Mose from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: December 5th, 2014 9:56 PM

Of course, you find that the police officers acted properly and the boy got just what he deserved. I would not expect you to believe otherwise. The silly challenge proposed is typical of the nonsense you are prone to share via this forum. I'm sure Oak Park police encounter situations where a professional approach is warranted. Thankfully, we don't have them deciding in less than 2 seconds to draw down on a 12 year child.

Uncommon Sense  

Posted: December 5th, 2014 7:08 PM

Mose, it is easy to Monday morning quarterback when it isn't your life that is on the line. The cop doesn't know if it is a 12 year old or a 17 year old, nor does he know if the gun is fake or not. Yes, it is a tragic accident, but not one that I'm ready to say the cops were being over zealous. Why don't you go wave a fake handgun on the playground at Taylor Park at kids and let us know how calm and collected Oak Park officers are when they approach you.

Mose from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: December 5th, 2014 6:41 PM

Brian , is your posting an indication that you too would have responded in the same manner and opened fire on a child? No attempt to assess the situation, no need to confirm the boy posed a threat or that the gun was real. Just pull up in a squad car within two feet of the child and open fire on him in 2 seconds from exiting the vehicle. I know you've identified yourself as a former law enforcement officer with many years of experience but wonder why you seem okay with killing a 12 yr. old?

Brian Slowiak from Westchester  

Posted: December 5th, 2014 5:24 PM

In regards to the police shooting the 12 year old boy w/fake gun, that fake gun fooled the 911 callers (on tape) into thinking the gun was real.


Posted: December 5th, 2014 5:02 PM

Tim and others. I was absolutely on Wilsons side from the get-go. He was the true victim, not Brown. The case that occurred not far from Ferguson & just days past Browns death- not so clear-cut Brown seemed to have a death wish. To me, the Brown shooting was almost textbook for how an officer should respond to a threat of that nature.. Brown was poster child of (what should have been) an open and shut case of self defense. Wasting millions of dollars, with pathetic demonstrations &rioting.

Mose from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: December 5th, 2014 3:36 PM

You make no sense. Police shot and killed a 12 year old who was not engaged in any criminal activity. He was playing and rather than calmly approach him or even attempt to use non-lethal methods to disarm him; they opened fire. The police chief claims officers ordered him to put down the toy gun and yet within 1.8 seconds of arriving at the scene they executed him. Cold blooded killing of a boy by two highly trained officers is an outrage and should not be a joke to you or anyone. Have a heart.

Uncommon Sense  

Posted: December 5th, 2014 1:37 PM

Mose, no crime but maybe a Darwin award. Waiving a realistic toy gun (with bright orange tip removed to show it was a toy nonetheless) around a play ground in a city with a lot of gun violence is sure to get you shot by police.

Mose from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: December 5th, 2014 1:27 PM

Tim, the police shot and killed the 12 year old within 1.8 seconds of arriving on the scene. Check the tape. That hardly seems like enough time to carefully assess the situation and determine the extent of the threat to their safety posed by this youngster. Can you at least accept there were non-lethal methods that officers could have employed in this instance or do you want them to shoot to kill whenever a black person, regardless of age, is involved?,What exactly was the boy's crime?

ResponsibleCitizen from Richardson  

Posted: December 5th, 2014 12:50 PM

This is a standard technique of those that attempt to make changes to the system by use of the courts. Get a case, use it as an example.. e.g. Rosa Parks. I would agree that there are some cops somewhere who might use excessive force and are guilty. It may have happened recently, but, I think you should use a case that's less controversial than this one. When the video shows Brown stealing with force, it sure makes it hard to see him as a total victim.


Posted: December 5th, 2014 10:39 AM

Let's see. 1. Try to fight with and take a cop's gun and charge him again when told to stop and get down- shot dead! 2. Struggle with officers and disobey commands when being arrested- taken down and then later die from complications of a heart condition! 3. Pointing a realistic bb gun (after having removed orange fake gun marker) at strangers, then disobey officers commands and try to grab fake gun- shot dead!4. Selling drugs and struggle with cop- shot dead! Yep, real cherubs they were!


Posted: December 5th, 2014 9:43 AM

It doesn't make me feel good to type these statistics .Its hard enough, in todays job market, to find a job, even being educated. That's a big red flag on someone's future when not properly educated. So what does that leave- drugs. Selling drugs is fastest and easiest way to make good money, but a belligerent attitude, and stealing those cigars (to be filled with marijuana), got Michael Brown killed. There's no happy endings, when someone goes rouge on society (and the law) just prison, or death


Posted: December 5th, 2014 9:01 AM

Anytime there's a high dropout rate in the education system, that usually translates into higher crime rates, and along with it, more conflicts with police, some fatal- (and justified). Statistically speaking, black communities have higher dropout rates. And again, not all blacks- most blacks don't fit into that .They're clean because they've worked very hard to be that way, and don't associate with those type people. No education- no employment, or shit jobs, which translates into higher crime


Posted: December 5th, 2014 8:22 AM

Nile, "I assume" that you're are black, and hinting at some injustice against blacks. So here are some sobering figures for the disparity. According to statistics of incarcerated African-American males, in Aug. of 2013, by the United States criminal justice system, and submitted to the United Nations- 1 out of every 3 black males born today can expect to go to prison in his life time-. "1 out of every 3" In 1996 on an average day, more black high school drop outs were in custody, than employed

John Q  

Posted: December 5th, 2014 6:37 AM

If we're going to continue playing the he was "unarmed" game some of you will need to be reminded of more people, actual victims, who were killed by unarmed people. Delfino Mora died after being punched in the face by teenagers. Ok, he was elderly. David Koschman died from a single punch by Robert Vanecko. People die and suffer lifelong injuries from weaponless attacks. I also don't remember when a pro football sized body was not adequate to be considered a potential weapon.

John Q  

Posted: December 5th, 2014 6:20 AM

http://www.odmp.org/search/year/2014?ref=sidebar In 2014: 1 officer was killed by assault, 3 officers were killed in car chases, 10 officers were killed by vehicular assault and 43 officers were killed by non accidental gunfire. This does not include those who were choked, stabbed, hit with objects, pushed down stairs, struck by, run over and/or dragged by cars and as always...shot..that lived. I wonder where they get these paranoid thoughts that uncooperative citizens want to hurt them!

nile from Elk Grove,CA  

Posted: December 5th, 2014 1:30 AM

i feel that people aka white people think that it was nothing i was in my class room and i even the teacher said Mike Brown was in the wrong i say that it ashame to see another black man i saw a sign for Ferugson and it was to true it said Justice for _____ no need to fill the blank in it gonna happen again and i felt what the person meant we gave Michael Vick jail time for dog fights we give accident deaths jail time but we cant give a obviously weaponless

Mike from Fair Lawn  

Posted: December 4th, 2014 4:53 PM

M. Brown was a thug, if he didnt rob and commit a crime he would still be alive. It is very simple, stop breaking the law. Poor black man.....I am voting republican for the first time because I am embarrased by the liberals sticking up for thugs


Posted: December 4th, 2014 9:28 AM

When Gen. Washington defeated the British, in a decisive battle (having been taken by surprise); the captured British marched, playing: "The world turned upside down".That's what we have. We have a felon, a bully, and a thief, that has now been immortalized, and the Browns go to a world summit meeting. We cant fix the black and white (scum)criminal element, so we must now alter our intervention somehow to apprehend the scum-use kid gloves. Its a violent world, and scum like Brown has made it so.

OP Transplant  

Posted: December 4th, 2014 9:01 AM

The media has played an unfortunate part in all of this. News coverage and articles like this one by Mr. Dean jumped very early on this being a case of a white cop murdering a child for being black. As evidence came out, that scenario was proven false, but no one in the media would change the story. The media became invested in perpetuating this narrative, regardless of the truth. The false media coverage inflamed the protesters, who were not masters of critical thinking. You know the results.

Ray Simpson from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: December 4th, 2014 7:04 AM

@ Joe All you said is true! The point you miss is that Brown was poor, black and underprivileged so Wilson took this opportunity to kill a black man. That statement sounds so stupid, yet, a life is ruined a town has been burned to the ground and logic has been tossed to the wind with that very logic as the reason. The losers in this whole mess are Brown Wilson and the residents of Ferguson Race baiters got to sit next to the president in the WH, Looters got to keep all that free stuff and politicians got their moments under the Klieg lights speaking to mindless talking heads. .

Joe from Chandler  

Posted: December 4th, 2014 1:32 AM

According to the Grand Jury, Brown did slam the police car door shut. Then proceeded to puch the officer in the face, and attempt to grab his gun, all through the open car window. Wherein two shots were fired. The 6;3" 300 pound man, a felon on the spot for those actions, took off, with the cop in pursuit. Brown at some point turned , and charged at the officer, The officer fired, and those shots led to Brow's death. Brown caused his own death!


Posted: December 3rd, 2014 12:52 PM

No ridicule, are you shure, sounded a little like it. Well, we'll let it go. Oh, and I'm flattered that you ask me out, but I don't do blind dates

David Hammond from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: December 2nd, 2014 5:41 PM

I'll confess to being a bitter little man, but I have not in any sense ridiculed anyone (or name called, which is your game). You and others are creating straw men, fake positions supposedly espoused by "progressives" or others you're opposed to. I am not ridiculing, but I am most definitely calling you out. Also, you bore me.

Ray Simpson from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: December 2nd, 2014 4:50 PM

@ Mose - fir the first 250 comments you implored us to wait for the grand jury. Now you want us to hold off for some improbable special prosecutor. The Brown family should leave well enough alone. Their son can only look even worse and they will come off as petty and vindictive.


Posted: December 2nd, 2014 3:38 PM

David, you sound like you're a bitter little man. Don't you have anything to say other than ridiculing other posters?

OP Transplant  

Posted: December 2nd, 2014 2:53 PM

I think it's unlikely, Mose. The incriminating eyewitness statements have been proven to be lies by the physical evidence. He wasn't running away. He wasn't surrendering. The officer's statement syncs up with the physical evidence, which is why the grand jury decided as they did. No one is looking to rile up the race-baiters by taking a loser case to court and having to announce an acquittal. It's become about non-lethal forms of defense for police officers who are being attacked.

Brian Slowiak from Westchester  

Posted: December 2nd, 2014 2:50 PM

President Obama, outgoing Eric older with nothing to loose,Department of Justice, FBI, so far have done little if nothing. Maybe they cant do anything, worse , maybe they wont do any anything.

Mose from Oak Park  

Posted: December 2nd, 2014 1:54 PM

This may not be over. The Brown family could petition the presiding judge of the 21st Judicial Circuit Court of Missouri to appoint a special prosecutor to investigate and determine if charges should be brought against the officer. Hard to imagine a jury returning a guilty verdict if the case would go to trial but the family has indicated that it does want all of the evidence presented in open court.

David Hammond from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: December 2nd, 2014 1:29 PM

"For the life of me, I just cant understand how society not only accepts what Brown did- as apparently normal behavior. "Oh, he was just out having a little fun, just went a little too far." Where did anyone, anywhere express that sentiment?


Posted: December 2nd, 2014 1:18 PM

This is a festering problem that's not going to go away, or get better on its own. There is no easy solution, but I think catering to these hoodlums is a mistake. For the life of me, I just cant understand how society not only accepts what Brown did- as apparently normal behavior. "Oh, he was just out having a little fun, just went a little too far" How can a community stand and protect that poor excuse for a person, Michael Brown, and think the officer needs to change, and not their mentality?


Posted: December 2nd, 2014 12:47 PM

FWIW doesn't seem interested in the root of the problem. Kind of like cancer, easier to treat the problem, rather than cure it. I admit it would be daunting to try to change a whole subcultures view of the world, and how they can fit in it no matter how the rest of the world views or accepts it. "So boys lets round em up as gently as possible", (don't be concerned about your own saftey) and get em to prison in good condition, as fast as we can. Its a little like putting a band-aid on an ulcer.

OP Transplant  

Posted: December 2nd, 2014 12:09 PM

FWIW - I'm not talking about your posts specifically when I call it backpedalling. I'm referring to the entire series of posts, beginning with Terry Dean's woefully inaccurate column. It's gone from "Michael Brown was murdered for being black" to "Police officers need ways to stop violent attacks without killing the attacker." Everything has changed except blaming the police.

Ray Simpson from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: December 2nd, 2014 11:47 AM

@ FWIW I would much rather have a cop who uses his gun because he fears for his safety rather than one who is out to prove something. Brown was shot for bad behavior not race. A young man has been forced to give up his chosen career for doing what he was trained to do. That is the crime in this whole mess!


Posted: December 2nd, 2014 11:11 AM

No backpedaling here, OP Transplant. Wilson was scared and Brown being black definitely figured into that. Post-grand jury it's about what positive, systemic reforms can be made. I see a lot of parallels to fixing the rape culture and boys club atmosphere of the military. Is every unreported military rape about sexism in the services? No. But fixing the system helps.

OP Transplant  

Posted: December 2nd, 2014 10:47 AM

Strange how the discussion has shifted from how Brown was shot down for walking while black, as Terry Dean puts it, to how the officer was wrong because he should have used some form of non-lethal force to end Brown's sustained attack on him. There's a general backpedalling away from the initial accusation, while still scrambling to find a way to blame the police.


Posted: December 2nd, 2014 9:48 AM

Ray, a lot of these calls for improved non-lethal training are coming from inside police forces. I think you get officers who don't have it grilled into their brains, they freeze under pressure, and their sidearm becomes a too-quick last resort. They're human. A lot of this has to do with changing police culture, too. It's coming from the academy teachers trying to figure out how to make forces more professional. I think it's a good sign that it's the police chiefs who see the need for change.

Ray Simpson from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: December 2nd, 2014 9:21 AM

@FWIW - would it be prudent to use a TASER inside of a car? I have never handled one but know there is a bunch of wires, darts and a whole lot of low amperage electricity involved. As an Army medic we were trained to evaluate how lethal wounds are and which ones have a low probability of survival. My first reaction to the autopsy wound placement drawing was that Wilson was not shooting to kill but rather just stopping Brown. The last shot to the top of the head was just bad luck. Wilson seemed not to be shooting for center of mass as he is supposed to but rather nibbling around the edges. I have never shot at anyone and have absolutely no idea what the adrenaline rush would produce. Wilson had the bad luck of having to defend himself with lethal force. Most police officers retire without experiencing that. Do you have any idea how you would react?


Posted: December 2nd, 2014 8:38 AM

FWIW- I disagree. They're not exploiting him. The definition of thug (a thief, rouge, a brutal ruffian)- that's exactly what he was. It only took a few seconds of video to see all those words. Actually, Wilson was trained correctly, he did exactly what he should have done. I think the community and parents are the ones that need better training If you cant raise your children better than Brown was, then you have no business having kids. Funny how some expect more from their pets than their kids


Posted: December 2nd, 2014 7:55 AM

Ray Simpson, you're right it was the best they could afford. Police departments around the nation are trying to fix that few officers are well-trained in using non-lethal force. Ferguson doesn't have enough Tasers for every cop, for instance, and Wilson testified he never requested one because they are too bulky. That's on all of us to not put a scared, under-trained cop without resources in a bad situation. Otherwise is it his fault he sucked at his job? His dept? The city? All the above.

Ray Simpson from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: December 2nd, 2014 6:58 AM

@ FWIW - Prove that Wilson had "Poor Training" He probably had the best his department could afford and he reacted exactly as his training dictated.We give police officers "special" powers to maintain civil order and protect the citizens from thugs like Mike Brown. MB was in control of the events of that day and could have ended the situation by just stopping his attack. What could Officer Wilson have done differently? Had this event happened in Oak Park what would you expect the outcome to be? Those of us who think Mike Brown was a poorly educated anti-social thug see the fact as the Grand Jury did and wonder why the case went to them in the first place. The states attorney sent the case to the GJ to avoid any implication of racial bias. The GJ did their job and anguished over the carnage they knew would result. They also knew that given the facts officer Wilson did what he was paid to do - MAINTAIN CIVIL ORDER! Race became an issue when the politicians and race hucksters chose not to let a good crisis go to waste. Can you honestly believe that any one of those rioters and looters gave a damn about poor Mike Brown. They took advantage of a chance to get free stuff.- again not letting a good crisis go to waste. Our progressive friends, here, find ingrained racial hatred in every unfortunate event in Ferguson Once again not letting a good crisis go to waste True racism is turning every event into a racial issue when in fact it was a legal one.

David Hammond from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: December 1st, 2014 7:28 PM

Don Lemon? A leader? The guy who made sure all CNN viewers knew that he smelled weed in the air during the Ferguson demonstrations? He took heat for that because it seemed to undercut the seriousness of the protest. This guy is no leader, he's not even a newscaster by my definition, and you, sir, are unclear what you're talking about, though it's very clear you are angry. Um, period.

Honest Abe from OP  

Posted: December 1st, 2014 6:06 PM

FWIW...you lose all credibility when puking up the "racist conservative" bromide. If this incident shows anything it's that the true racists in this country are the Democrats, the liberal media, and AA "leaders" like Sharpton & Don Lemon. Guess who created the system w/the "baked in" racism? Big city democrats, that's who. Liberals, all, & with a vested interest in keeping AA's in poverty. They, & the AA politicians who've sold their souls to the Dem devil, own all of this. Period.

OP Transplant  

Posted: December 1st, 2014 6:06 PM

"..."it would be a cleaner, more coherent struggle if Wilson had shot a better man." It would be a cleaner, more coherent struggle if Brown hadn't been killed violently attacking the police officer who was trying to apprehend him for the other violent felony he had just committed. The truth is, offenders like Brown are the reason officers carry guns at all. They have to be able to defend themselves if they're attacked while doing their job.


Posted: December 1st, 2014 5:48 PM

David, yes the racist conservative types have exploited Brown being a "thug" for their twisted political ends. But I disagree about a "better martyr." Even the most horrible of criminals deserves a day in court that Brown will never get because of Wilson's poor training. This is about cops who are bad at their job. Yes, racism is "baked into the system" and we should talk about that, too. And failures of the justice system. But above all this is about police reform. That will benefit all.

David Hammond from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: December 1st, 2014 5:36 PM

Make no mistake, I think the growing movement to investigate police excessive use of force could have used a better martyr, which is to say, it would be a cleaner, more coherent struggle if Wilson had shot a better man.

Ray Simpson from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: December 1st, 2014 5:25 PM

David claimed "we have to take the martyrs we get" Mike Brown was no martyr - he was a big dumb thug who had no idea how to act in civil society. Making him anything more is just stupid. There is no reason for him being dead other than his own actions. Bottom line a police officer has his life and career ruined, a community lays in ashes and politicians are taking full advantage of another crisis that must not be wasted.

OP Transplant  

Posted: December 1st, 2014 5:10 PM

"So instead of addressing the true failures we make up excuses- the blame lies on society, the whites, the police." Well said.


Posted: December 1st, 2014 4:34 PM

So again, I have to ask what society expects. Does society ask any more from you, than me? Does it ask any more of your grown children than you (as a parent)? Are people rallying around someone that's been a victim, or a fool that just didn't care? How many of you out there would Condon and support a young adult J-walking, stealing, assaulting a clerk, and a police officer? (a felony) So instead of addressing the true failures we make up excuses- the blame lies on society, the whites, the police


Posted: December 1st, 2014 3:52 PM

For some reason, it is tolerated by some cultures to a commit crime. If I don't follow the rules, what are YOU going to do about it? It seems perfectly acceptable in many instances, and in particular this case. Even Terry Dean says, if he did do anything wrong, at the most, he should have been arrested, tried, and if guilty, been sentenced to prison- as if its perfectly acceptable. It would be a very big deal to me if my child did something like Brown did.. Why isn't it a big deal to the Browns?


Posted: December 1st, 2014 3:37 PM

You see, somebody filled Michael Browns head with shit instead of respect and moral values. Even a 10 year old knows right from wrong. So if a teenager or young adult feels they don't feel like it, so they're not going to, that generally means the parents have the same kiss my ass attitude. Instead of blaming society and making up excuses for the tragedies and messes that they've made, they need to take responsibility for your failings. Michael Brown wasn't gunned down because he was black.


Posted: December 1st, 2014 3:15 PM

I have to ask, what does society expect from whites versus blacks; as opposed to what we expect from ourselves and our children? In general, society expects blacks and whites to respect and obey the laws. As adults, do we feel that we should obey, and respect the law, or just if we feel like it? Do we expect the same from our children. Children need to be taught. So, if we don't teach our children the rules, don't blame society or law enforcement, parents are responsible for the consequences.

brian.slowiak@hotmail.com from Westchester  

Posted: December 1st, 2014 3:04 PM

Thank you, Adam Smith and OPT.

Adam Smith  

Posted: December 1st, 2014 12:20 PM

@David Hammond - I assume you are familiar with the "safe passage" signs and designated areas. Who do you think the (primarily AA) children are being protected from - white cops who want to shoot or wrongly incarcerate them? OPT is correct. Much bigger problems to be solved. Solutions could start with getting to/from school safely, getting an education that gets you into college and making a better life for yourself.

OP Transplant  

Posted: December 1st, 2014 11:47 AM

David - My point is that it is dishonest to suggest that getting shot by cops or falsely imprisoned are big problems in minority communities. White liberals want to protect us from things that hardly ever happen while making excuses for the things we actually do. But some of us believe that we are responsible for ourselves, and should bear the consequences of our own actions. If whites expect one thing from their kids, but make excuses for mine, then they believe their kids are better than mine.

David Hammond from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: December 1st, 2014 10:56 AM

" If you think young men in my old buildings are laying low, worrying about being falsely imprisoned or shot by a cop, you are naive." No one said that.

OP Transplant  

Posted: December 1st, 2014 10:51 AM

David - I know that's true, but that's not the reality of growing up in a bad neighborhood. I knew people who routinely committed crimes. Some got incarcerated; most did not. The people I knew were not worried about getting shot by a cop or falsely imprisoned. They were worried about getting caught. If you think young men in my old buildings are laying low, worrying about being falsely imprisoned or shot by a cop, you are naive.

Ray Simpson from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: December 1st, 2014 10:43 AM

@ David so we have a statistical percentage of 2/100 of a percent. while regrettable it is a part of our system and humans make errors.

Ray Simpson from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: December 1st, 2014 10:24 AM

@ Reality - We now see the hidden truth in double negatives. My late english teacher is smiling - at least in my memory!

David Hammond from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: December 1st, 2014 10:21 AM

Here's the source: http://www.innocenceproject.org/Content/DNA_Exonerations_Nationwide.php

David Hammond from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: December 1st, 2014 10:21 AM

"I've never known anyone who got locked up who didn't commit a crime. " The Innocence Project has achieved 321 post-conviction exonerations based on DNA evidence; 202 were African-Americans.


Posted: December 1st, 2014 10:18 AM

The whole black attitude thing is pervasive in communities like Ferguson. (certainly not all members, many respect the law). Even when proof that wrong doing took place by a community member, they deny it. People said "he didn't do nothen", they see the video of him stealing, they say "that's not him" In the grand jury investigation, all the witnesses were interviewed- the ones that said he didn't do nothen, couldn't get their facts straight to corroborate, meaning they lied ("no we didn't")

Ray Simpson from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: December 1st, 2014 10:00 AM

@ Checkmate - "According to Terry Dean" absolutely no source reference just opinion in an opinion piece. We are all accustomed to these WJ opinion pages stating unsubstantiated opinion as irrefutable fact. On both sides of the argument. If you read Mr Deans column with the belief that he is a black man who hopes that his communities youth is not as hopeless a it seems, you can appreciate his defensive position. The statistical data does not support his contention.

OP Transplant  

Posted: December 1st, 2014 9:52 AM

Let's be honest. I've known guys who've been incarcerated. Even if otherwise good guys, they were all doing things you get incarcerated for, if caught. I've known other guys who routinely did things you get incarcerated for, who never got caught. I've never known anyone who got locked up who didn't commit a crime. I've never even known anyone who got locked up the first time they committed a crime. You make choices about how much police contact your life is going to have.


Posted: December 1st, 2014 9:29 AM

@reality - according to Terry Dean, MOST of black men and boys killed by police over the past decade or so committed no crime whatsoever. I am sure he did extensive research before publishing this fact in the newspaper. So you're wrong.


Posted: December 1st, 2014 8:30 AM

David, you're absolutely right about the numbers. I'll take a moment to discuss numbers. According to the FBI, in 2008, in a uniform crime report the numbers and statistics were: Black youths made up 16% or the youth population, and accounted for 52% of violent crimes, including- 58% of murders, 67% of armed robberies. Maybe that's why "It is a numbers thing". So yes, cops are going to watch blacks. If you're going to look for crime, that's the most likely place to find it- and they do find it

Ray Simpson from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: November 30th, 2014 10:30 PM

@ Mose - each one of those AA in prison are there because of something he did. Not the group! If you could get half of them turned loose would you be OK with relocating them all in your neighborhood? I bet not!

OP Transplant  

Posted: November 30th, 2014 10:21 PM

"Or could it be a numbers thing?" Yeah, because when a black person gets shot, it's almost always by a white cop. Really? If you want to talk numbers, getting shot by a cop is pretty damn rare. An "epidemic"? Minority communities have plenty of problems, but cop shootings do not top the list. But thank God for white folks like you who "care about it", as evidenced by your post here, which is, of course, how you show you care. Because nothing shows you care like telling strangers you do.

Mose from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: November 30th, 2014 8:18 PM

@Ray, here is a book to read if you want to better understand mass incarceration in the age of colorblindness, "The New Jim Crow", by Michelle Alexander.

Ray Simpson from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: November 30th, 2014 7:36 PM

@ David here is a number you might not like "According to the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP), African Americans constitute nearly 1 million of the total 2.3 million incarcerated population, and have nearly six times the rate of whites." Could there be a failure to live within the bounds of society? Does " IN YOUR FACE" mean anything to you?

David Hammond from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: November 30th, 2014 7:27 PM

"The reason people don't riot when a white guy is shot by the cops is that white guys..." Or could it be a numbers thing? According to the Center for Juvenile and Criminal Justice, "young African Americans are killed by cops 4.5 times more often than people of other races and ages." (http://www.cjcj.org/news/8113). It's an epidemic, and a big problem...but only if you care about it.

OP Transplant  

Posted: November 30th, 2014 6:16 PM

David - The reason people don't riot when a white guy is shot by the cops is that white guys are expected to be responsible for their own actions. They're held to a higher standard of behavior. They're assumed to understand the consequences. If a white guy had done what Brown did, they'd call is suicide by police. Expecting less from us, and then using that as an example of progressive "tolerance" is paternalistic and condescending. I prefer klan robes to smug suburban liberals.

David Hammond from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: November 30th, 2014 3:41 PM

Seems I should answer the last two posts, but I can't begin to understand what either is getting at, though I agree about the death throes.


Posted: November 30th, 2014 1:49 PM

Well, I think this column is going through death throws, so I'll try to make this my last entry. I guess I'll never understand what made these protesters so committed to a felon, and why so many would believe a liar like Dorian Johnston I guess they have to believe lies when the truth is harsh, and hard to swallow,-I don't know. Former New York Mayor Julianne, said some of them could face perjury charges for lying under oath that, Brown was shot in the back first. Isn't it now worse not better

Ray Simpson from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: November 30th, 2014 1:41 PM

@ David I think you are getting your nose rubbed in progressive ideology.

David Hammond from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: November 30th, 2014 11:06 AM

"Poor Michael Brown couldn't be expected to act any differently, because he was black and, well, you know they just can't help it." In the almost 500 comments in this thread, has anyone actually said something like this?


Posted: November 30th, 2014 5:03 AM

Well said.

OP Transplant  

Posted: November 29th, 2014 11:31 PM

White liberal excuse-making for minority low achievement and antisocial behavior is rooted in the perception of white superiority. Poor Michael Brown couldn't be expected to act any differently, because he was black and, well, you know they just can't help it. So if he gets shot by the police while committing crimes, that's really shooting him for being black. Because, you know, he can't help but commit crimes, being black an all. I prefer flat-out prejudice over liberal condescension, myself.

Don't Let Facts Get in the Way  

Posted: November 29th, 2014 11:24 PM

@DH - "We have to go with the martyr we have rather than the martyr we want." Really? This felon is a martyr now in your mind? This is all based on media driven fiction. Wow, I thought you were intelligent. Terry Dean with his arms up does make me giggle now that the testimony has debunked this account.

David Hammond from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: November 29th, 2014 6:29 PM

Re: Fox News. I watch them all the time. They're getting much better. My preference, of course, is Al Jazeera, probably the best source (along with BBC) for international news.

David Hammond from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: November 29th, 2014 6:23 PM

"protesters must have a better set of examples than some punk who attacked an officer" We have to go with the martyr we have rather than the martyr we want.


Posted: November 29th, 2014 6:17 PM

For things to get better for the protesters will require them to change, not society. They think they're owed something because they feel they've been wronged in the past. They think the red carpet should be rolled out. They have little education, no credentials other than a rap sheet, they are belligerent, walk around with their underwear half way down to their knees, have no respect or regard for the law and they want to blame all their problems on others. How can things get better for them?


Posted: November 29th, 2014 5:55 PM

The only thing that seems certain to me is the continual changing expectations of the work force & continued increase in educational requirements. 20 years ago, a bachelors degree was sufficient to land a position as a physical therapist. Today a doctorate degree is necessary. the better white colored job will require it as well. The rest fight for the rest. Anyone living in the past, or using "street smarts" to get what they want, or thru agitated riots and protest, will be left behind crying.

Ray Simpson from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: November 29th, 2014 5:24 PM

@ Dave Ok I read your CNN column - what a boatload of mindless progressive crap! Our population seethes with undercurrents of racial hatred?? Businesses find ways to hold the AA down? Find a better source - give FOX a try-- almost everyone else has and given them top ratings.

RF Dan  

Posted: November 29th, 2014 5:23 PM

I keep hearing about how the protests are about the bigger issue of racism by police...if so, why choose this incident above all others...protesters must have a better set of examples than some punk who attacked an officer..the signs "blacks matter" show a real lack of perspective..everyone matters and if AA's think other folks have never seen discrimination they need a history lesson

OP Transplant  

Posted: November 29th, 2014 4:29 PM

Anyone who thinks Brown stole those cigars, assaulted the store clerk, and attacked the officer attempting to apprehend him for that felony because he was mad about slavery is delusional. He was a criminal and a young man of poor character. He made a series of stupid, self-destructive choices. On the plus side, every time I see that picture of Terry Dean with his hands up, it makes me smile. "Damn, when will this madness ever end?"

Uncommon Sense  

Posted: November 29th, 2014 4:02 PM

Dave, nearly all the social ills and cultural dysfunction affecting the black community didn't start until 50 years ago. Look at marriage rates, out of wedlock birth rates, incarceration, etc. All increased under the liberal war on poverty. If racism were the cause, you'd find higher rates 50 years ago than you have now as no one is going to argue that people today are more racist than 50 years ago. Daniel Moynihan was 100% correct.


Posted: November 29th, 2014 3:32 PM

There are plenty of blacks that do quite well in society, some of them bring that point to light in this forum. Others, however, seem to think the world owes them something. Case in point "Michael Brown". Apparently, he felt that his community owed him the right to free cigars, the right to assault a store clerk, and a police officer. Whatever the past injustices, (that's past) his arrogance got him killed- not slavery. His (and the others) -hard on toward society, has alienated all of them.

David Hammond from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: November 29th, 2014 3:23 PM

Label me as you please. More relevant to this discussion is an article that just came up on cnn.com: "Science has bad news...for anyone who claims to not see race: They're deluding themselves." More here: http://www.cnn.com/2014/11/26/us/ferguson-racism-or-racial-bias/index.html?hpt=hp_c2

Ray Simpson from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: November 29th, 2014 3:13 PM

@ David - I can assume that you are a proud Progressive?

David Hammond from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: November 29th, 2014 2:48 PM

"Whatever societal problems they are having is a result of poor life choices and a community that needs new leadership." You don't think that part of the "societal problems" you reference could be traced to the enduring legacy of relatively recent slave society, the impact and even timeframe of which you (and many others) seem very eager to minimize?

Ray Simpson from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: November 29th, 2014 2:45 PM

@ David a century is = to 100 years not 1,000 years for what it is worth.

Ray Simpson from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: November 29th, 2014 2:40 PM

@ David OK so slavery ended 150 years ago - the "Bad Act" occurred for a couple hundred years before that. Not a single looter in Ferguson experienced a single instant as a plantation slave. Whatever societal problems they are having is a result of poor life choices and a community that needs new leadership.

David Hammond from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: November 29th, 2014 1:14 PM

"the radical progressives who seek social justice for activities a couple centuries ago" Are you referring to slavery? The Emancipation Proclamation was 1863. Not a "couple centuries" ago.

Ray Simpson from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: November 29th, 2014 11:02 AM

It occurs to me that the average citizen, black, white red brown or yellow never even thinks about racism. We all make an effort to get along and judge others by our individual actions. The two noteworthy exceptions are the race hucksters who get rich pitching evil and the radical progressives who seek social justice for activities a couple centuries ago. Ferguson has spotlighted the most vile characters in our society and made it look like they are the 'man on the street' Those folks pushing brooms at 5:30 in the morning, cleaning up their town are the heros we should be celebrating, not the out of town thugs getting "free stuff"


Posted: November 29th, 2014 4:11 AM

Black People Are The First OnE To Play The Race Card Get Over It.Blame The Guy For His LifE Choices Don't Blame The Cop For Doing His Job Or Protecting His Life.....

Mark from Mt. Ephraim  

Posted: November 29th, 2014 2:03 AM

I don't think the police department released the video as so much as the media got to it. I'm sorry but you don't seem very intelligent. You'r argument lacks any basis or evidence.

change agent  

Posted: November 28th, 2014 6:11 PM

12 year old black child (an actual elementary school little boy-size and type of child) was recently gunned down by cops when they sped up to within feet of him and from inside the cop car slaughtered him within 2 seconds of approach, and not uttering a word of warning . What was he doing? He was sitting on a swing, alone, in a public park with no one in the immediate vicinity, playing with a toy gun. The city cameras recorded the entire incident live. It's available to view online. So . . .


Posted: November 28th, 2014 5:37 PM

Standing together they feel strong, but in actuality they are weak. If they were strong, they would be able to face the truth. On his best day, michael brown was something no mother should have been proud of-but his mother was proud of him because she raised him to be a disgrace Anyone that I know would be ashamed to know someone that strong arm- robbed someone. But In his community, he is a flagship, and they will do their best to ignore who he really was, and continue to live a lie that he was


Posted: November 28th, 2014 5:12 PM

When the truth doesn't serve in someone's favor, they then turn to lies, substituted to serve for their ineptness. Its a lot easier to blame someone else for their failures and incompetence. How could they face themselves in the mirror knowing they are staring into the face of a loser? So they then group, in kind, attempting to fit into what they feel is a functional unit- no matter how defective. Supporters (and terry dean), say for what he did, he should have been arrested tried and sentenced.

Ray Simpson from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: November 28th, 2014 9:34 AM

A Look at Ferguson, MO. We know that 80+% of Ferguson are black. We also know that only 18% of eligible voters went to the polls to choose their leaders.It is also reasonable to assume that none of the voters were looters or rioters, The police chief has reported that he has tried to fill open positions with blacks but, cannot find applicants who can pass the legal or educational requirements. We give police officers special privilege in defending themselves while defending us - with lethal force. When the race baiters quit thinking of 300# 6'8": thugs as "Precious babies" and see them as the plague of their communities there might be some grounds for understanding.

Brian Slowiak from Westchester  

Posted: November 28th, 2014 9:29 AM

Google Roderick Scott and Christopher Cervini. Scott was a AA neighborhood watch officer in 2009 who shot and killed Cervini, a white kid while breaking into a auto. Sound familiar. South Salt Lake City AA police officer shots and kills white unarmed teenager. No riots,no outsiders,no national coverage. The AA community accepted the not guilty verdict w/Scott w/o question. Double standard, racist AA cops, or blind justice?


Posted: November 28th, 2014 9:15 AM

Why can't some black people understand that this wasn't a minding-your-own-business attack by a police officer. Michael Brown was the aggressor, there is ZERO debate about that. Get over it! This shooting isn't the representation of black oppression some people are so badly wanting it to be. You attack a police officer, you will lose your life. White people aren't looking to shoot black people and white people shouldn't have to fear defending themselves. Self defense is a basic human right.

Brian Slowiak from Westchester  

Posted: November 28th, 2014 8:18 AM

Google Roderick Scott and Christopher Cervini from 2009. Scott was a AA neighborhood watch officer who shot and killed Cervini,white kid trying to steal something from a car. Sound familiar.South Salt Lake City AA police officer shoots and kills white kid laying on the ground for not showing his hands. No riots, no outsiders, no national press coverage. In Scotts case the AA community completely accepted the jury decision he was not guilty. Double standard,. racist AA cops, or blind justice.

change agent  

Posted: November 27th, 2014 7:39 PM

@"Local" :Spot on! Lead up to announcement: "Full State of Emergency"! Announcement made mysteriously at night when businesses were closed so there was no human life to protect. All public "servers" (inc. Nat. Guard) hanging out on the other side of town picking their teeth and allowing the entire black bus. community to burn to the ground. One way to solve a pesky problem? Then they mugged for the cameras claiming they weren't expecting "this"! HA! HA! This was a Federal Conspiracy. Period.


Posted: November 27th, 2014 5:12 AM

Everything got to be blamed on the white folk. The number of blacks having children out of wedlock, the number of black men unmarried having multiple children with multiple women, the number of blacks on welfare, the number of failed students at Normandy- leading to its un-accreditation. The brutal whites killing innocent Brown. He a gentle giant. What about the film showing him stealing and assaulting a clerk? Oh.. ah.. but he a gentle giant... You people lie so well, you believe your own lies


Posted: November 27th, 2014 4:55 AM

OP Transplant UR Right, they should have used Brown as poster child to promote birth control pills- not as a martyr. Sad but true UR wrong. If you look around, you'll see black gangs, how many white gangs do you see? They probably fearful of white folk, and do so for their own protection. Then they probably practice the knock-out- game on innocent folk, just to be prepared in case they are attacked. Look at the film footage- how many whites rioting? Get your head out of your ass so you can see

OP Transplant  

Posted: November 26th, 2014 9:46 PM

Sad but true - If Brown had been white and had behaved the exact same way, he'd still have been shot. Try committing a felony and them attacking the officer who tries to apprehend you. Maybe go for his weapon. There's plenty of inequity out there, but Michael Brown is not the right guy to riot over.

Sad but true from Louisville  

Posted: November 26th, 2014 6:40 PM

White people seem to be born with a proclivity toward hypocrisy. You say that black people deserve to be beaten, shot, and terrorized by white police officers because they do things that are wrong. How many white kids fight, shoplift, and disregard authority and have that misconduct attributed to youthful ignorance? Your statistics about crime you say show blacks have a problem. You ignore the fact that police determine which violence to record as crimes, and which to call something else

Aging Disgracefully  

Posted: November 26th, 2014 5:01 PM

Always superb reporting and analysis, Terry.

You People Are Hateful from Oak Park  

Posted: November 26th, 2014 4:57 PM

Hateful, hateful, hateful.

Ryan from New York  

Posted: November 26th, 2014 3:43 PM

No question the treatment of blacks by police needs to be less militarized and more humane. Given Mike's interactions with officer Wilson that day he is the wrong example for African Americans to hold up as police brutality. Additionally the lies by the witnesses conflicting with the evidence is a disgrace. This case shouldn't be another black victim of white Devils like OJ Simpson was back in the day by racist white cops. Hard to be compassionate with Brown

Jeremiah Puckett from Denver  

Posted: November 26th, 2014 2:20 PM

You need to be honest, Terry Dean!!! You are part of the problem. As a whole, the black youth I see do not respect themselves, their friends, their teachers or any other authority. They need to stop having babies out of wedlock, stop dropping out of school, and stop carrying around an attitude if they EVER want to improve their lives.

Jeremiah Puckett from Denver  

Posted: November 26th, 2014 2:16 PM

I'm getting sick of people saying Michael Brown was unarmed. He had TWO ARMS, and he used them to start beating on the police officer. Without the gun, you think 160# Wilson is going to defend himself against 300# Brown? OH PLEASE!


Posted: November 26th, 2014 12:54 PM

Whatever the merits of the case, it seems the Ferguson police did everything they could to maximize a negative response from the community. They announced the results at night - a time when either celebration or protests could get out of hand. And the state troopers - they were "available" but not on the streets. The police wanted an angry violent response and sadly they got it. And the press focused on the negatives with only scant coverage of peaceful protests. Shame on us all.

Jim from South Oak Park  

Posted: November 26th, 2014 11:46 AM

It seems likely that Michael Brown was defiant and violent. He's of a subculture that embraces defiance, crime and violence. And they insist it is someone else's fault. The subculture's most visible members are black, but they do not represent the larger American black middle class. The madness ends when the subculture cleans up its act: When violence is not a way of life. When it accepts responsibility for its actions and does not blame "the system." This BS article just abets the violence.

Ray Simpson from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: November 26th, 2014 11:08 AM

@ Terry Dean - You should put this whole column and all of the comments together as an example of the whole range of community thinking. There have been examples of white racism, black racism, reason and irrational thought. You took some slings and arrows for your original premise, but you sure got the folks talking!


Posted: November 26th, 2014 10:52 AM

Ray, I understand your concern. What are they doing to the innocent. The business owners, the police, and their families. Going around terrorizing everyone. You need talk to those people. There is no voice of reason within them. This is something that these people are going to have to fix themselves. Sharpton and other agonist could stop them if so desired, but why would he, this is how he got so rich. Yes there's lots of hate/anger out there. For the mob, they should be put in internment camps

Ray Simpson from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: November 26th, 2014 7:39 AM

@ Brent - you are punishing a whole group for the activities of a few. THAT IS BAD!! Would you refuse brain surgery from Dr Ben Carson? Or blood transfusions from a black man. Those were the prejudices of my youth and I still shutter when I think back.


Posted: November 26th, 2014 7:26 AM

I have the feeling that even the responsible and caring blacks will feel the backlash of these actions. I say that because they could have made an effort to hinder or even tried to stop them. I will not purchase from, or be a part of the blacks economics pursuits such as black car salesman, or any sale that pays commission or keeps them employed. As a matter of fact, neither will any of my relatives. It all adds up, and is just part of the price they will pay for their cry baby black antics

Keith from Newnan  

Posted: November 26th, 2014 1:34 AM

Your headline asks when this is ever going to stop... Well I've got a few answers to that question. It will stop when black men stay at home with the family and actually teach their sons and daughters how to be productive, civil Americans. It will stop when the black youth in this country change the channel on their music selection from hate spewing, racially charged violent music. And finally, it will stop when young black men stop committing violent crimes and stop attacking police officers...

Rick S from Covina   

Posted: November 25th, 2014 11:23 PM

England... The "next" time Mate, when England is getting their A$$ kicked from abroad... You're on your own, no more bailing out England !! You talk it, now fight it !!! You're-on-your-Own ! America, the land of the free, and the home of the Brave... FightOn

Rick S from Covina  

Posted: November 25th, 2014 11:10 PM

wait to see their impact on me ? I am no fan of Police, at all ! But as a human "Person" I will not wait to see what happens ! Too bad it wasn't "You" put in the same situation so alllll of us could watch You cower and shoot much earlier, you talk like a Coward ! Punk !!! America doesn't care where you came from and as for "Bloody ole England", that's where pompous murderers/killers originated from !!! Shoot first, ask questions later... That's England And that's why we left first !

Garry from Raleigh  

Posted: November 25th, 2014 10:57 PM

Wrong, assaulting a police officer, you're dead. Unarmed black teen, media responsible for rioting with this verbiage. The Brown family is a disgrace to our people.

Rick S from Covina  

Posted: November 25th, 2014 10:57 PM

Terry, innocent ? Innocent is when I'm walking/driving down the street or sitting in my home and suddenly I am attacked for "no" reason by "anyone" who has "no" right to attack me whether they are "supposed" friends, colleague, police, state; "Anyone" for no reason !! That said, a criminal who has just committed a crime and fits the description and I am faced with said person "knowing" that said person wouldn't think "twice" when facing me about inflicting harm at their convenience, why would

Glen from Dallas  

Posted: November 25th, 2014 9:23 PM

You can put your hands down now!

H. Munster from Chicago  

Posted: November 25th, 2014 9:20 PM

I wish our leaders were more concerned with young african americans murdering people without regret. Leading cause of death amongst young people (all races) is murder. Why in God's name cant we teach self responsibilty. We all have free will, and have to live with our mistakes. The knock out game is a perfect example of a immoral and decrepit generation. Where is the outrage when an elderly WWII veteran is beaten to death by cowardly punks? also, Ferguson was burned by DOMESTIC terrorists.

Ray Simpson from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: November 25th, 2014 5:47 PM

"Never let a crisis go to waste" David Axilrod


Posted: November 25th, 2014 5:39 PM

Well its about time to put this to bed, I have a feeling the arson will backfire . Oh, and incidentally, if all the peaceful demonstrators had a mind to, they could have stopped the more violent ones. I have a feeling that they were secretly cheering them on- including the ones that gave birth to "thug". All they would have had to do is walk off, and say: "no were not going to have none of this" and peacefully walk home. If their not happy here, go elsewhere, or ship em to Guantanamo Bay Cuba


Posted: November 25th, 2014 5:11 PM

I agree that the press has turned this BS into a mini series. Friday, with all the drama on TV, seemed to set the stage for a movie, all we needed was pop corn and soda pop. Indeed, the news media profits immensely. With the media egging them on, they are empowered. With no audience, the assholes would just be standing there sucking their thumbs. I think mayor Dailey had it right. In the mid 60's, Dailey ordered the police to "shoot to kill" any and all arsonists and rioters- Problem solved

OP Transplant  

Posted: November 25th, 2014 3:15 PM

If we return our attention to the article above, it's now clear that Mr. Dean was poorly informed. Physical evidence supports the officer's statement that Brown attempted to take his weapon through the car window, and that Brown was moving toward the officer when he was shot fatally. Mr. Dean's posture in the above photo is as false as his assertion that Brown didn't attack the officer. Wrong from top to bottom.

Uncommon Sense  

Posted: November 25th, 2014 1:30 PM

If you are really interested in understanding the evidence available, the false narrative, etc. This was crowd sourced from day one. http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2014/11/24/congratulations-treepers-you-nailed-the-entire-evidence-construct-and-witness-testimony-with-99-99-accuracy/


Posted: November 25th, 2014 1:24 PM

I was watchin CNN last night when that lady got hit by a rock in the head. Sista tried to get in da way of da brothers breaking windows at da likker store. did you see the dude in the mask take the three bottles of hooch and da sunny d right under da reporters feets. these situations are just an excuse for the brothers to get free crown royal

magmaticace from cleveland  

Posted: November 25th, 2014 12:36 PM

obama should have the power to override free press on issues that could insight riots effect the outcomes of major court cases or put the lives of people in danger. this could have been resolved closed circuit 7 months ago without damage to property. the media is helping destroy this city

joe from Hollywood  

Posted: November 25th, 2014 12:03 PM

That's the way you handle it he should be locked up for starting a riot.people will never learn. Animals do that NOT productive members of society. Joe

joe from Hollywood  

Posted: November 25th, 2014 12:00 PM

Why is it on one foot black people are always wanting equal everything which let me add is there right as it is to whites but when things don't go the way they want they ALWAYS pull the race card.I'm an American Jew I don't go around saying you people killed my people.It is very sad that a young man lost his life.Was it justified, that is for the law to decide NOT us.So things didn't go the way it should of so that means browns step dad tells a crowd to burn it down oh yeah that's the way to do


Posted: November 25th, 2014 10:17 AM

when a police officer tells me to get out of the street - you better believe I do exactly what he says. That's not because I am white - it is because I respect the fact that he is the law. When you don't respect the police you become subject to a "situation" which, depending on how far you want to push it, could end in your death. If Brown would have been white he would still be dead. So why don't you looters and rioters take note before you end up in a similar situation.

Ray Simpson from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: November 25th, 2014 6:42 AM

The prosecutor laid out the case that was decided by a grand jury. That is the way our system works. If what we were told is true the case should never have been brought to the GJ. The grand jury was just to let all of the facts be known by a jury of citizens who then made. the final decision. Those who testified and agreed with the evidence were given more credibility than those who presented their story with an intended anti-police outcome. Both groups did what they thought was right, but the anti police sides story failed in light of overwhelming evidence. The race baiters wanted to condemn a sworn officer who was doing the job they pay him to do and who will probably never again do the job he has chosen. A good mans life has been destroyed for no logical reason. After all of the stores are picked clean, windows broken and a community left in ruin Al Sharpton and his army of thugs will move on to their next outrage leaving the good citizens of Ferguson to repair the damage and clean up the carnage. I think they will do just fine!


Posted: November 25th, 2014 5:45 AM

Robert Hey And your an idiot. don't like Justus? Go be with the the roaches that threw a tantrum. You're idea of Justus is to let OJ Simpson off, free to roam the streets, which is where he would be today if he wasn't so stupid. He didn't do nothing. Protect the criminals and the hell with law abiding citizens. That wasn't Simpson, he just looked like him. That wasn't a knife it was a sandwich. That wasn't blood on him that was ketchup. Goldman and his girl were unarmed too- weren't they?

Natalie Stephan from Lake villa  

Posted: November 25th, 2014 1:31 AM

People across the country have the right to protest, but when they place other lives in danger, it becomes irresponsible. I sympathize for the family who lost their son, but the case simply turned into a 'he said she said' ruling in court. No one knows what truly happened but that is only the cause of the true problem we are seeing. Expecting racism. I believe that most people looked no further than the race of those involved into account. An inhuman act such as this should not be blamed by race

Dalien from Bossier city,la  

Posted: November 24th, 2014 10:33 PM

I cannot believe that this is such a surprise to everyone this is bigger than mike brown and family this is the results of years of anger and it is coming up and it's being seen throughout of America as sad as this may seem this needed to take place politicians government and local officials should have been address these issues maybe this will open blinded eyes starting with our president of the united states deal with the problems at home talk to young people government and keep it real!!!!!

Uncommon Sense  

Posted: November 24th, 2014 9:34 PM

Exactly as predicted from day one by anyone who tried to objectively look at the facts of the case. Occam's Razor. No cop is going to purposely shoot an unarmed teenager in the middle of the street in broad daylight in a black neighborhood without just cause. The goons in Ferguson, the race hustlers, and the Gruberite social justice sheeple just embarrassed themselves yet again.


Posted: November 24th, 2014 9:27 PM

Don't let the facts get in the way of a column. What a chump. "Journalist" in name only.


Posted: November 24th, 2014 8:40 PM

Notice the mistake constantly made by blacks protesting and arguing cases. One is its immediately race. Two their victim is always 100% innocent and always painting as just a kid. Three they tear up the neighborhood black businesses and all and loot. Somehow their being upset justifies other crime. I have always said the best way of solving these issues is when a neighborhood is made up of mostly blacks, then all justice should be black, the DA, the grand jury and the chief of police case closed

Ray Simpson from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: November 24th, 2014 8:29 PM

Just announced " NO TRUE BILL" in other words 'let the riots begin! Honest justice be damned!


Posted: November 24th, 2014 5:02 PM

I asked those questions, not necessarily wanting an answer, (more of a statement) since I already stated my feelings below, in another paragraph. Role models, who are they? Respect, where is it? What are they teaching these kids in those neighborhoods? If you want to go around acting like an ass, then don't bitch about being treated like one. Don't expect respect if your not willing to give it first. Why did this 12 yr. old die? -ask his parents. My message: Straighten up your sorry act people

Brian Slowiak from Westchester  

Posted: November 24th, 2014 2:11 PM

"Who are these role models?""Where does a chlld pick up those attitudes" The oldest tenured patrol officer AA of the OPPD told me that a young AA man living in N/central OP during the 80s drove an orange Chevelle. with a police scanner. The officer asked why the young man had a scanner. The young man replied he would listen to the radio calls for perpetrator descriptions and then go home and change clothes to match, go to the area of the offense so the police would stop him.


Posted: November 24th, 2014 8:38 AM

Now it seems we have another senseless shooting, this time in Ohio, where a 12 yr old black child was killed by a police officer for brandishing a toy bb gun- First at people and then an officer, why was he killed? I was never shot or killed for aiming a bb gun at police, O wait, I never did that, nor did anyone I ever knew. Outcome? Not surprising, considering the array of role models that have been seen & heard as of late. Who are these role models? Where does a child pick up those attitudes?


Posted: November 23rd, 2014 1:57 PM

Hate and violence extends itself deep into the soul. You can call these non- blacks blacks what you will, but they're not out for justus, or fighting for a just cause- they even come from out of state to join in the festivities.There are also whites and Asians that fall into this category as well-but nearly so many. If the people wanted a martyr, they surely picked the wrong one. Brown was a violent thug and a miserable excuse for a role model. Good blacks can stop the bad ones, so please do


Posted: November 23rd, 2014 1:32 PM

I see a lot of black/white juggling issues going on in these columns. I hate to dredge up old hate issues & mentalities, but it seems prudent. True blacks are not evil, hateful individuals, lusting for violence. The only difference between the true blacks, and whites or Asians, is their skin color. People cant help their skin color, we are born that way- and we cant do a lot to change it. But there's a hell of a lot that people can do to change the inside of themselves. Black is only skin deep

Ray Simpson from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: November 23rd, 2014 10:37 AM

It looks like the Grand Jury in Ferguson chooses not to be the catalyst that results in the destruction of their town. They cannot decide? So now we must start sorting out what we know, suspect and want to be true. Next time you are near an Oak Park police car, take a moment to look at the front seat drivers side. There is only room for an average size male officer amidst the steering wheel, radios, computers and the tools of police work. We know there was Michael Browns blood inside the police car. Logic dictates that a trained officer would not pull a man 40-50 pounds heavier and 15 years younger into a space that small. Therefor Brown was attacking the officer probably to get his gun. Had Brown been shot in the back seat the whole scenario changes, but we know that was not the case. We know that the officer has seven years on the Ferguson PD with several commendations in a community where he is a minority. It seems to me that a bad event happened and the race baiters are twisting the facts to justify a false agenda. My lasting memory of Ferguson will be the black, white brown and yellow citizens doing early morning cleanup of their town. The rioters destroy everything in their path to prove a point they just violated.


Posted: November 23rd, 2014 8:37 AM

Gleaning through various articles about Michael Brown, I'm amazed at the witness statements, and the various lies they contain. Johnson, at the top of the heap, said Brown was shot in the back- lie, he had his hands raised surrendering - a bunch of lies,. Other noteworthy comments: Dude in the video wasn't Brown, it didn't even look like him- a lie, he paid for those cigars- a lie, he's never been in a fight in his life- a lie, was shot for no reason- a lie, & Brown didn't attack, Wilson a lie.

Jacqueline Peters   

Posted: November 23rd, 2014 3:34 AM

M. Brown was a 6'4', 300 lb,18 yr old adult male. Cops aren't civilians but armed officers of the law, attack one and you WILL likely get shot. Why wasn't Brown at work, you know, a job, instead of robbing and roughing up an old man? I hope you never need a policeman to come to your aid, he would have to tell you to lick your wounds and get over it. You really do sound like an Al Sharpton wanna be.

John Q  

Posted: November 22nd, 2014 2:13 AM

OP Transplant: I gotta admit that I read your comments and almost laughed..I'm thinking "WHITE PEOPLE in Park Forest..where?"...it was a joke but it was funny to me. I was thinking the same thing though I didn't know the officer was black until today. I'm guessing most other people did not either but it's been brought up recently with other incidents that resulted in the deaths of white with black officers. The police are still blamed but just not for racial reasons. SMH


Posted: November 21st, 2014 4:03 PM

Brown wasn't killed because he stole cigars, or even for pushing a store clerk, or J walking. That's what drew the officer's attention to him. What got him killed was that same arrogant behavior against the police officer, and demonstrated that he was a danger to society. You cant assault a police officer, and attempt to take his fire arm, with a discharge in the car, and expect to be embraced as a child. If you kill or attempt to a cop you should expect to die, one way or another

straight lines  

Posted: November 21st, 2014 3:29 PM

Sorry, Mose, I'm going to have to eat that one. You were right, I didn't think- (on this latest comment, but not on my earlier comments) I actually superimposed a word that didn't exist. I do however stand behind my other comments, including Wilsons being found innocent, I have a secret source that has already spoken, the verdict will be on the news shortly, as I am told.

straight lines  

Posted: November 21st, 2014 3:11 PM

To Mose Wrong again, Mose. I opened with: "I DON'T THINK", not: I don't know. You just can't seem to get it right- can you? But, as you said in some of your earlier comments, (not word for word) wait for the Grand Jury, and have trust in the system- and today Justus has, in fact, been served. Officer Wilson is exonerated, as he should have been, and there's one less thug to have to deal with.

OP Transplant  

Posted: November 21st, 2014 1:39 PM

John - Just today in the Tribune there's an article about a black officer who killed a 95-year-old white man. Could be completely justifiable, could be an error on the part of the officer, but no one assumes it was racially motivated. Police officers of every race make split-second decisions in dealing with suspects of every race, and sometimes it goes badly. White folks in Park Forest are not rioting. Not every bad thing that happens is the result of racism.


Posted: November 21st, 2014 11:55 AM

This sortta thing happens to all races. If you do not believe it just try to argue with the bad cop. You will get hurt or killed. Rememeber dead men can not testify. Mike did not have to die, but God will be the judge.

Uncommon Sense  

Posted: November 21st, 2014 10:59 AM

John Q, Trayvon was in Sanford, FL because he was expelledl. The house in Sanford was not his father's house, but his father's side chick's house (Brandy Green). Sybrina Fulton had kicked Trayvon out of the house which is why he was his father in Sanford. In fact, Sybrina didn't even raise Trayvon but for about a year before he was killed. he was actually raised by Alicia Martin, his stepmother. Tracy & Sabrina are not married. The real story didn't fit the "narrative".

John Q  

Posted: November 21st, 2014 6:14 AM

George Petrusha, both Brown and Martin had fathers around. If you remember, Martin was killed RETURNING to his father's home after a trip to the store. It's ironic you mention Detroit and Gary as examples of what happens if towns are "turned over" to blacks yet you fail to mention the decline in industry that both towns suffered which had nothing to do with black people. Those towns dived from failed industry and newer residents who were increasingly poorer than those that left.

John Q  

Posted: November 21st, 2014 6:06 AM

OP Transplant, I just saw your 10/31 comments. I'm not white, doing well enough for myself, have no problems with police...I'm not sure what you took from my comments but it appears it was severely out of context. I have several comments in this thread. It looks like you took a specifc comment, in response to another comment, and tried to let it speak on issues I was not addressing. Sorry, wrong black guy. I don't believe "the man" has my destiny dangling from his fingers...that's for the lazy.

John Q  

Posted: November 21st, 2014 5:57 AM

videotaped? What really got that guy in trouble was that the courts found they had no reason to force Grant and his friends off of the train. While it looks like Grant was involved in the altercation they were investigating they basically "guessed" correctly who was involved without having an articulable reason for pulling them off the train as opposed to any of the other riders that present. It is lazy and destructive to simplify all of that by saying that it happened just because he is black.

John Q  

Posted: November 21st, 2014 5:52 AM

Jon Elrod, Oscar Grant was killed because of a deadly mistake made by the officer...keeping his taser and firearm on the same side of his body. You may think that means nothing but apparently police departments across the country do not as they often mandate that the two be placed on separate sides of the body to avoid "muscle memory" confusion. You honestly believe an officer knowingly shot an unarmed black man in front of 10s of witnesses, in an event that the average fool would know is being

Mose from Oak Park  

Posted: November 21st, 2014 1:45 AM

You opened with, " I don't think". That's abundantly clear, straight lines.

straight lines  

Posted: November 14th, 2014 3:27 PM

I don't think that what's going on in Ferguson is going to help their plight any. Seems to be socially acceptable to commit crime and not have to pay for it. Think about it- a life of crime without any consequences. The only people that will be attracted to live in that community, is scum- which doesn't bother them. Their community is nothing but a bunch of liars. The grand parents, parents, Johnson, & others- Never been In a fight, was shot in back, had his hands raised surrendering- all lies.


Posted: November 14th, 2014 5:28 AM

It is sad to see scuffles and another person hurt or killed, but we also must stand in the shoes of those who were intimidated by a huge individual. Inside the store, Mr. Brown stoled products instead of paying for them, and then pushed around the store clerk, who was half his size. To see a man the size of a refrigerator coming at you, I suggest you'd be scared for your life as well.


Posted: November 10th, 2014 3:17 PM

Yes, they're practicing their response to the verdict- prepared for a no indictment verdict- as it should be. SO THEY CAN RIOT. Social Pillars You can give em books, but you can't make em read, or learn anything from them, and grow as individuals. This ridiculous nonsense has polarized the public- in my area anyway, My neighbor having said "I thought I was passed all that (hate and prejudice)". they're filled with discussed. The parents should be ashamed of themselves for raising him that way

Ray Simpson from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: November 10th, 2014 12:18 PM

This has changed from a law enforcement issue to a political nightmare. The race hustlers see a chance for more prime time t v coverage. As if we cannot identify Sharpton and Jackson in an instant. The Grand Jury has not spoken yet the rioters have been hired signs printed and warnings issued. No wonder racial tension exists - someone is doing it for gain and profit. That is immoral!


Posted: November 10th, 2014 10:47 AM

Normandy's average salary over $10,000 a year more. than the state average. Class size under 20:1.They also had more teachers with Master degrees than state average- but, Normandy had a much higher drop out rate than state average. I don't know why a lot of these students went to classes, but it doesn't sound like they went to learn. He must not have learned much- came out with a thugs' attitude. Brown may as well have been prepared for a position as sanitation engineer or septic tank cleaner.


Posted: November 10th, 2014 10:24 AM

As a passing thought, with the grand jury verdict coming soon, I cant help but wonder why Michael Brown ended up acting like such a fool. There is an article on the net, that comments on him having his graduation picture taken in March, (early), the reason being, that they had only 2 cap and gowns that had to be shared by all- 2 at a time. Ironic, considering that Normandy teachers are some of the highest paid instructors in Mo- according to the dept. of. elementary and secondary education.


Posted: November 7th, 2014 10:27 PM

Everything things a crutch now so tired of the Black White thing get a life 11/eyewitnesses came forward and said their was a struggle over the gun but out of fear for their own life they won't be a witness !!! I lived in the city all my life and can understand their fear take a look at the stop snitching video . I'm not getting involved seeing first hand how the youths of today have no respect for anyone White and Black stop this Shit it be old now!!!!!

george petrusha  

Posted: November 5th, 2014 8:59 AM

18 +drugs +fatherless household +violent culture, that is perceived as cool=what happened to Michael Brown and treyvon martin. let the black people take control of ferguson so they can create a nice safe city like Detroit or gary in.

straight lines  

Posted: November 2nd, 2014 3:24 PM

Honestly, I think Brown was a bully, and I think he had some significant criminal issues as a juvenile. No one that's led a good honest life will just rob a retail shop, assault a clerk, and then take on a Police officer- and with impunity, out of the clear blue. I think he thought he could get by with it again, and just messed with the wrong person, and I think he got exactly what he deserved. Doesn't matter what color. OP, you give me hope for this world.

OP Transplant  

Posted: October 30th, 2014 2:18 PM

John Q - If you make a lot of choices that result in police contact, it's easy to imagine that the police are out to get you. And if you blame everything bad that happens to you on racism, then you imagine that racism is the cause of all bad things. I'm not white, and yet I'm pretty successful, and I have no problems with the police. Why isn't racism keeping me poor? Why aren't the racist police oppressing me? We're all in charge of our own lives.

Bill from cookeville  

Posted: October 30th, 2014 12:09 AM

I think the lesson here is 1. Don't assault a police officer, and 2. Use the freakin' sidewalk .If he hadn't been walking in the middle of the street none of this would have happened

John Q  

Posted: October 29th, 2014 11:38 PM

"ThatGuy", somehow you assert that racism is created by black people complaining about racism?!?! And those blacks who say racism is not a big issue to them, are they the reason for racism as well? Midlothian is not exactly the south suburban region's bastion of intelligent thought. BTW the mainstream media that ignores the "innocent white people being shot and killed" is typically run by whites...go figure.

ThatGuy from Mdlothian  

Posted: October 29th, 2014 10:14 PM

Why do black people always have to make things about their race? There are just as many "innocent" white people being shot and killed as blacks. Racism still exist because y'all continue to make it an issue and yes, I mean y'all as in black people.


Posted: October 24th, 2014 10:21 AM

Realist, I agree. Dean's a Journalist, ought to know better. My comments go nowhere, but his..... and provocative news coverage creates an even worse atmosphere. News media gets to cover a story that unfolds, in front of them, and due to them, while they stir the pot. No news media, no breaking news- no pot stirring= fewer agitated demonstrators.

Realist from OP  

Posted: October 24th, 2014 9:04 AM

Just want to point out that Terry Dean is just as guilty as the posters on this board in using unsubstantiated claims to draw provocative generalizations AND, what's more, adds to the fire by posting that photo. WJ should be ashamed of itself for continuing to give prominent web space to this guy.


Posted: October 24th, 2014 5:48 AM

Mose, those "goofy questions"? need answers, but I now realize that you aren't prepared to answer any questions. What you like to do is delve into, criticize or critique other peoples' opinions or comments. Like asking a therapist a question, so I won't ask you any more questions. As for the "punch is a Joke" look above in Terry Deans article where he says: even if Brown just whipped his butt in a fist fight. he (Wilson) should just lick his wounds and move on.... (like his punch is a joke)

Jim Coughlin from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: October 23rd, 2014 8:18 PM

Ebony, I have previously expressed my doubts about you and believe it is quite likely you are really a very disturbed person desperate for attention and prone to posting strange comments on issues relating to race and African-Americans in particular. What you intend to be viewed as provocative instead come off as the confused thoughts of a very troubled individual. There are other folks on this forum who may buy the baloney you're peddling. Serve it to them. I've had enough of it and you.


Posted: October 23rd, 2014 5:47 PM

Mose - you just don't get it, do you...there are simply no facts at this time to support an accusation that Brown was murdered. All Brown's supporters have is opinion. Yet they have forced Wilson into hiding. Does that mean anything to you? The evidence released indicates a struggle in the police car, which is consistent with Wilson's story.

Mose from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: October 23rd, 2014 5:19 PM

Wayne, I'd hoped we were finished with the back and forth on this issue. You posed some goofy questions to me but failed to provide your own answers. I'm not willing to feed the nonsense presented that someone has made light of the incident by claiming a punch in the face is a joke. You want to offer as factual evidence; details still being examined by the grand jury and have not yet been released to the public. It's tiring and useless to continue discussing this with you. Go play with Ebony


Posted: October 23rd, 2014 3:50 PM

Ebony, I'm still waiting for Mose to answer the questions I have ask- I'm sure something will come to light. Who ever thinks that a couple of punches to the face is a joke, have never been clocked. Just one punch from someone of Browns size is capable of knocking a person unconscious. On top of that, he nearly had his weapon taken, and i'm shure he thought it would be used against him. Easy to say what should have been done. Pointing fingers is easy, maybe a finger should point to his parents?

Franz from Winnetka  

Posted: October 23rd, 2014 2:37 PM

Mr. Doogan, The "mentality of slaves." What does that mean exactly? FH-W

OP Transplant  

Posted: October 23rd, 2014 2:34 PM

Mose - No one's opinion here is legally binding. Obviously, the finding of the grand jury will determine the actual outcome. Still, this comment board is a place for people to discuss their opinion about the events. Assuming that people are civil (and not everyone is), it's okay for people to talk about this. And it's okay for people to disagree.

Mose from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: October 23rd, 2014 2:23 PM

The grand jury is still hearing evidence and except for what some do consider the questionable release of an autopsy report; there's been nothing provided as a true and sworn account of what happened the day Officer Wilson attempted to direct Mike Brown out of the street and on to the sidewalk. Makes no difference to those who are convinced they know exactly what occurred and how both parties then responded. Ebony wants none of that and is still ready to rule. Order in the kangaroo court!


Posted: October 23rd, 2014 1:42 PM

Yes So many questions, I am adding something to the conversation by suggesting that you be put in an environment that facilitates reading comprehension. Such an environment could preclude such ridiculous comments suggesting that Brown had his hands up with no weapon in them. You do realize that his hands were indeed used as a weapon, right? You know, the same type of weapon Ray Rice used while playing the knockout game with his wife.

So many questions  

Posted: October 23rd, 2014 1:01 PM

Ebony, do you think you are adding something interesting to the conversation by insulting me? If so, please explain.

Mose from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: October 23rd, 2014 12:48 PM

Ebony, sorry to read I did not receive a passing grade from you but will consider the source before getting too upset. You could have at least provided us with an idea of what you consider to be an acceptable opinion and one that will earn your approval. I guess it's your way or the highway. Or summer school!

Mose from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: October 23rd, 2014 12:40 PM

MB. it could be that news reports provide the race of the victim because there seem to be too many reports of police misconduct involving minorities. I don't recall reading John Burge tortured white males and he may not have been discriminating with his brutality. Terry Dean did mention a long list of unarmed black men and boys killed by police over the last decade in his opinion piece but did not provide stats. Brown's shooting was not an isolated incident in that community or our country.

MB from Mattoon  

Posted: October 23rd, 2014 12:05 PM

Regardless of anyone's opinion, it's up to a grand jury to decide now. If the boy that was shot and killed was a white man would someone write an article titled "Police shoot an unarmed white man". I doubt it. It's a shame regardless of the color of the man's skin. It's too bad Americans can't use this incident to try to better ourselves as a nation and stop referring to people by their race.


Posted: October 23rd, 2014 11:56 AM

Bill Doogan and So Many Question - you both should ask your parents to turn the basement lights on, because it is quite clear both of you struggle to read...which makes you look about as intelligent as Mose.

OP Transplant  

Posted: October 23rd, 2014 11:51 AM

Mose - It didn't occur to me that any readers would believe that that was a serious proposal. It was not. It was intended to cause the reader the consider the likely outcome of such behavior, regardless of the races of the persons involved. The obvious conclusion about the likely outcome would prevent the reader from doing anything "dumb and dangerous." Thank you for the opportunity to clarify that. The only stupid question is the one you don't ask.

Mose from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: October 23rd, 2014 11:49 AM

Not point in continuing this dialogue with you, Wayne. No doubt people are fed up with crime. Me too!


Posted: October 23rd, 2014 11:38 AM

To Mose. Who wrote this racist article? Action, not Race, is what this is all about not color. A lot of Blacks are fed up with the BS crimes that go on too. How many of these protesters have you spoken to? I haven't noticed any comments about the protesters. Do you even know what they want? I doubt it. What will you tell the protesters if Wilsons' acquitted? With all the hate, do you really the Grand Jury will satisfy everyone? How about you Mose, have any racist bones in you?- Better look close

Mose from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: October 23rd, 2014 11:13 AM

That's a really dumb and dangerous "experiment" you propose, Transplant. Regardless of the neighborhood or community, suggesting someone attempt to take the gun from a police officer is encouraging risky and reckless behavior. Of course, you do realize that it is no simple and easy task to grab and capture a weapon that has been properly holstered by a police officer. Better to see a physician or mechanic to get your loose screws tightened.

OP Transplant  

Posted: October 23rd, 2014 11:04 AM

Bill - Just wondering which posters are the "retards" and which are the "loser hicks"? Also, which would be worse? These things are tough for me to quantify.

Mose from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: October 23rd, 2014 10:59 AM

Realist, you assuming facts that we do not know are actually in evidence but instead are relying on news reports and leaks that may be slanted to support versions that both sides contend are accurate. The "photo" of Wilson's injuries was detemined to be actually a pix of an injured x-games athlete. Better to wait for the grand jury to determine if the shooting was justifiable.

So many questions  

Posted: October 23rd, 2014 10:48 AM

It seems the shattered eye socket detail was leaked by Wilson's friends. I am bothered by the selective disclosure of information. I don't like it when anyone tries to manipulate my view of anything. To the point of the legal case, Brown was killed after that altercation, when he had his hands up with no weapon in them. Even if Brown punched Wilson in the face, that doesn't give Wilson the right to shoot him after the fact.

Bill Doogan  

Posted: October 23rd, 2014 10:44 AM

Check out the comments from the "gun rights" crypto Klansmen defending the killer cop. Most of the NRA retards are authoritarians. They wave the flag and beat their chest talking about freedom & the Constitution, but most are loser hicks with the mentality of slaves. That's why they let NRA lobbyist Todd Vandermyde put Duty to Inform police in the carry bill. DTI is only for black people in Chicago, not the good old boys in southern IL where HB183 sponsor Brandon Phelps lives. Yee-haw!

Realist from OP  

Posted: October 23rd, 2014 10:00 AM

@Mose are u serious?!!! "Mike Brown may have behaved badly but not did kill or cause great bodily harm. " Wilson's eye socket was SHATTERED from the force of the Brown's assault. Do u have any idea how hard that is to do?!!

OP Transplant  

Posted: October 23rd, 2014 9:54 AM

To those of you who are certain that Officer Wilson's behavior was motivated by racism, I propose an experiment. You go into a high-crime neighborhood and attempt to forcibly disarm a police officer. My hypothesis is that, regardless of your race or the race of the officer, you would be killed or injured. I believe that the dynamic at work here is much more officer/suspect than it is white/black.

Franz from Winnetka  

Posted: October 23rd, 2014 9:41 AM

So many questions, You are kidding, right? The mob was not and is not remotely interested in the truth. Had Wison provided his account as you hoped, it would have fallen on deaf ears. Those willing to loot and ravage their own neighborhoods are not interested in the truth, they are just looking to lash out.

So many questions  

Posted: October 23rd, 2014 9:28 AM

If Officer Wilson's account is true, why wasn't it provided right away? Doing so may have helped prevent what has happened since Brown was killed. Telling his version of what happened couldn't have made things any worse.


Posted: October 23rd, 2014 8:45 AM

To Anon. I wouldn't worry to much about how people will look at, or think of you, as a result of all this. If you're a law abiding, decent person, looking for a better life, I think you'll be ok- but I cant speak for everyone. I agree with you about the polygraph test. I think every one involved, and that claims to be a witness to this case should be tested as well. I believe that would knock Johnson out ,as a liar, in shout order. Who's going to believe a proven liar and a thief?

Bill Dwyer  

Posted: October 23rd, 2014 8:24 AM

I apply the term 'thug' to a huge stoned teenager who, when stopped by a cop on suspicion of a crime, attacks said cop, smashes him repeatedly in the face, attempts to disarm him, gets shot, runs off then turns around and charges the cop. That behavior is not something worthy of the energy being expended in Ferguson. There are real problems and injustices in the black community needing attention and redress. Michael Brown isn't one of them, and the protesters are fools wasting their energies.

Mose from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: October 22nd, 2014 9:44 PM

Anon, extend you message to men of all races. Our gender accounts for the majority of violent crimes. It would make it harder if all men were viewed as

Mose from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: October 22nd, 2014 9:34 PM

Bill, isn't it unfair of you to characterize people marching in protest or calling for justice as "mobs"? I wouldn't give much credence to any rabblerouser making threats for the TV cameras. That's teapartyish! Do you apply the term "thug" to only people suspected to be involved in or proven guilty of criminal behavior? Mike Brown may have behaved badly but not did kill or cause great bodily harm. He might just be a teenager acting foolishly who got caught in a tragic set of circumstances.

Anon from Fairfax  

Posted: October 22nd, 2014 8:49 PM

Not knowing all of the FACTS, I cannot make an accurate judgment of whether Micheal Brown deserved to get shot or not. However I want to test the legitimacy of the officers word. We could possibly do a lie detector test on whether the officer is lying about what brown did or not. Second, I just want to make this clear, African-Americans, please do not steal, by doing this you will make it harder for us successful African Americans to get by in this world. It's hard enough already as it is.

Bill Dwyer  

Posted: October 22nd, 2014 8:38 PM

Why, I'd ask, have mobs of people been in the streets for the past 73 days, with supposedly responsible people bellowing about the dire consequences if a grand jury doesn't indict a police officer? Apparently, no matter what the facts are? It all makes me question my liberal values. Mike Brown was a criminal thug, and the facts are going to support that. I don't waste my energy and time on people like him. The real, genuine issues before us are too important, and MSNBC, etc, should be ashamed.

Mose from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: October 22nd, 2014 8:24 PM

Bill,my mistake if I was wrong to view your post as directed towards me. Please understand that I have not been willing to offer any opinion regarding the guilt or innocence of Brown or Wilson and have suggested people ought to refrain from declaring there is proof to support any particular position. Wait for the grand jury and then either cheer or jeer their decision. Why are some unwilling to wait for our legal system to do it's job and instead pursue a rush to judgement? Racial hatred?

Mose from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: October 22nd, 2014 8:10 PM

Wayne, aren't you guilty of the same thing charge you level against Mr.Dean? You want him to have all the facts but place no such restriction on yourself. Is it possible you do have a racist bone in your body in light of the nasty tone of the comment telling people to leave their country if not happy here. Clearly you are not interested in a civil dialogue regarding an incident that has engaged thoughtful people to ask important questions and offer well reasoned opinion.

Mose from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: October 22nd, 2014 7:34 PM

Let's say I'm more than skeptical of "reporting" offered by your key source. Too bad you seek a rush to judgement instead of allowing the grand jury to examine the evidence presented to them and then deciding if the shooting was justifiable. I don't know the facts nor do you. Big difference seems to be your insistence that both Mike Brown and Trayvon Martin deserved to be shot dead. That's not the way it's supposed to work.

Bill Dwyer  

Posted: October 22nd, 2014 7:23 PM

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/new-evidence-supports-officers-account-of-shooting-in-ferguson/2014/10/22/cf38c7b4-5964-11e4-bd61-346aee66ba29_story.html?hpid=z2 .. You have a problem when the truth coming out undercuts your position. That's what newspaper are supposed to be about. Bringing out the truth. Hopefully the truth keeps coming out here.

Uncommon Sense  

Posted: October 22nd, 2014 7:01 PM

WaPo is also reporting there are seven or eight BLACK eye witnesses who back up Officer Wilson's account, but have not spoken out of fear of safety. theconservativetreehouse.com has a complete breakdown of all the evidence, witnesses, players, motives, timelines, photos, etc. Most of the major outlets source their info from this site. They broke most of the Travyon Martin evidence (the site was mentioned in the trial).

OP Transplant  

Posted: October 22nd, 2014 6:42 PM

Mose - I wouldn't look for grand jury results before mid-winter. The most likely outcome is that the officer will be exonerated, and authorities know that rioting will be kept to a minimum by weather. Autopsy info was probably leaked for the same reason; to soften the impact later. This information is being "handled" in a way that is intended to cause the least damage.

Uncommon Sense  

Posted: October 22nd, 2014 6:34 PM

It is becoming obviously clear from the information leaking out that it is highly unlikely Officer Wilson will be indicted to hopefully quell any additional violence. I certainly don't expect any apologies to Officer Wilson, QuikTrip, the beauty salons, and all the other true victims from the black grievance pimps and charlatans for being wrong yet again.

Mose from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: October 22nd, 2014 6:16 PM

All the facts have not been fully disclosed. An autopsy report was leaked. Yet another example of those in charge of this investigation continuing to act in an unprofessional manner. The grand jury continues to hear testimony and those findings are not expected for several months.

Johnny C  

Posted: October 22nd, 2014 6:13 PM

They tried to frame OJ, what makes you think this recent information is any different?


Posted: October 22nd, 2014 5:55 PM

To Mr. Dean. I noticed your comment about some cops are good, but others need look for a different line of work. I think you need to find a new line of work. Print before you have all the facts, just riding on the tails of angry blacks of a slack mentality. Also, you said Wilson should only have arrested Brown, and if convicted, he should have sentenced to an appropriate amount of prison time. Easy to say when your ass is not on the line like Wilsons was. Oh, and you can put your arms down now

begladicarry from anywhere  

Posted: October 22nd, 2014 4:49 PM

This entire blog is now irrelevant. The facts are now fully disclosed and Michael Brown was indeed a thug, and did indeed bring about his own death. Nothing the officer did or said was racist in any way, nor was any action of his inappropriate. Time to look for a different martyr.

OP Transplant  

Posted: October 22nd, 2014 2:45 PM

"Might want to revise his photo as well." Realist- Perhaps in the interest of journalistic accuracy, Mr. Dean will favor us with a photo of himself trying to wrestle a service weapon from the hands of a uniformed police officer?

Realist from OP  

Posted: October 22nd, 2014 2:07 PM

Ummm-- apparently this hands up pose was a fiction. Finally some evidence that shows that folks spoke a little too soon , including the writer of this op-ed piece. Might want to revise his photo as well. http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/10/michael-brown-autopsy/381761/

factchecker99 from ferguson  

Posted: October 22nd, 2014 9:12 AM

these kids are about as innocent as a 5 dollar hooker, check the facts. two criminals got shot while assaulting/shooting at police you out of towners don't know any facts your just here against our will tearing up our cities the blame doesn't lie with police it lies with the parents that were too busy to raise/parent their children

straight lines  

Posted: October 20th, 2014 3:24 PM

after lookin thru some of the dialogue from Dean article and responses to other comments. I'd just like to say writers are suppose to be objective and truthful, no matter how terrible it makes you or others feel. Everyone of these cases are individualized and stand alone. This officer Wilson never shot anyone before. You make it sound like conspiring and taking turns to systematically kill blacks. From what I'v seen your the racist- But it must be hard to see with your head stuck up your ass


Posted: October 20th, 2014 8:54 AM

I still say Wilsons the true victim here. Did Brown deserve to die? for his actions brown might as well have pulled the trigger on himself. this isn't a racist thing, he didn't get shot because he was black, but because of his actions, dont ask why. Oh but look how many other black teens get shot, yea, because so many commit bad crimes. Most blacks are wonderful, productive citizens, but the rest, if not happy here, move to another country like Africa but youll have to work if you want to ea

mi from cleveland  

Posted: October 17th, 2014 2:22 PM

Wo cares.stop acting like an animal and you won't get killed by the cops.


Posted: October 17th, 2014 11:55 AM

It's time for me to let Michael Brown go- will be my last entry. There is always more than 1 side to a story. It just didn't have to end the way it did. Don't think well ever get the whole truth. If Wilson is convicted, or found innocent- neither would surprise me. Mr. Brown had his whole life ahead of him. Maybe if he saw so much wrong with the system, he'd decide to become a policeman to try to help make things right- still an uphill battle. Now we'll never know. Its in the lords hands now


Posted: October 17th, 2014 10:26 AM

The high school Mr. Brown attended was Normandy. How such well paid staff could fail the school isn't puzzling. Instead of cleaning up their own mess, (i.e. getting rid of ineffective teacher, sending thugs that disrupt classrooms, and threaten teachers to a more suitable location), they push that responsibility on to others. I don't know that Mr. Brown was college material. I don't think he learned respect, I think he was a bully and did what he wanted- and he Should have been brought better.


Posted: October 17th, 2014 9:21 AM

A mental glitch on my part, Winter- thanks for the correct. Still mired in the mud with this mess, and it still makes no sense; but if you look deeper certain things do come to light. I thought possibly, that the high school he attended had poorly paid staff. After checking though, I discovered that the average administrator salary was- $79,000/ with state average being- $70,000. For teachers- $58,000/ $41,000 for state average, and $56,000 regular term teachers, and state average was $39,000,.

Quest in ons from Madison and Pulaski  

Posted: October 16th, 2014 4:57 PM

I dont kow why police keep shooting un armed black teens. I also dont know why, when a black teen is shot by another black teen, there aint no protests. Wheres the protest and concern? Why is it only the rare time a white cop shoot a black teen, folks protest the white man? I thinks the media hype up that for ratings. Ratings equal money. Media profit off propaganda and nobody cares when black teen shoot another black teen. Only the rare time white man shoot black teen. The truth no doubt

Winter Skye from Chicago, Illinois  

Posted: October 16th, 2014 4:30 PM

Dan, why in bloody hell do you persist in calling Mose MOSS? Geez...once may be a typo, the second time Auto-Correct but this is getting ridiculous...LOL

Len from Las Vegas  

Posted: October 16th, 2014 4:06 PM

Maybe blacks shouldn't commit crimes 10 times as much as whites even though their population is only 13%

anonymous from sheridan  

Posted: October 15th, 2014 12:13 AM

We should open our eyes!!!! Black people are not dangerous, or scarey and they should not be locked up!!!! They should be the ones protecting us not white!!!


Posted: October 11th, 2014 5:18 AM

The fact is Moss, you have a closed mind, or you would be more open to other comments, and you wouldn't be afraid to listen to what these men have to say on the website that I suggested. You have hundreds of demonstrator (and rioters) out there, and not one of them saw what happened, If you want to make useful, go out there and tell those people what you're preaching here, and go home and wait for the grand Jury's ruling The truth hurts doesn't it Moss

Paul from Dayton  

Posted: October 11th, 2014 12:04 AM

If Mr. Brown at anytime disarmed the officer, or beat him til he was about to go out. Deadly force is allowed. You need to look at your supreme court rulings.

Mose from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: October 10th, 2014 6:08 PM

Dan, you are wrong to assume there is any logical reason to support the rather weak and incoherent positons you continue to present. Despite reasonable efforts directed at you to refrain from assuming you have access to all the pertinent facts and carefully reviewed the evidence; there is nothing you have to say that should be considered part of a thoughtful discussion. It's easy for you and a few others to claim to know the truth. The only fact is; you know nothing.


Posted: October 10th, 2014 4:53 PM

Hey Moss, You need to check something out. If you google Brown 1814dreadyhead. there is a Brother with a white doo rag. He has something to say- listen to him ( its about 22 min. long) very unbiased. Off to the right side is another brother that says "Michael Brown and Dorian Johnson an embarrassment!!!!!!) if you listen to them you may get some insight..


Posted: October 10th, 2014 3:30 PM

Moss, being a police officer is a thankless job- seems especially true in Ferguson There are many people (of all colors) out there that just plane hate cops. So I do give this officer the benefit of the doubt. Now, it seems evident that if someone obeys and respects the law, (and those enforcing it), they should have little to fear- but as it stands now, lawbreakers out there are hiding behind Brown supporters' protection regardless of crime - So if you kill one, you'll face their arson


Posted: October 10th, 2014 1:58 PM

No Moss, Joe asserted that the cop used excessive force behind a box of cigars, (without having all the facts), and again, I responded with my assertions. If officer Wilson did, in fact, kill Brown for a stolen box of cigars, it would be a very sad day-.and the 2 scenarios I listed below, can be considered, but they just sound so ridiculous. I do, however, agree with uncommon sense, there's a lynch mob out there, and now another black man killed over sandwich? It must have loaded with bullets

Uncommon Sense  

Posted: October 10th, 2014 11:38 AM

Mose, there is no debate about whether Brown made some bad choices. We agree that guilt or innocence has not been determined. However, you need to talk to rabble rousers in Ferguson about waiting on facts before deciding to loot and protest. It is really ironic you have black folks essentially calling for the lynching of a man without due process. The latest honor roll student killed was supposedly holding a sandwich despite all the evidence to the contrary.

Mose from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: October 10th, 2014 10:55 AM

You're back again, Dan! Too bad. Still insisting that, even without having access to any of the evidence currently being presented to a grand jury, you are able to determine guilt or innocence. Certainly calls into question your motivations.


Posted: October 10th, 2014 8:52 AM

Brown made some very poor choices. He chose not to respect the law, which ultimately got him killed- but not just for stealing cigars. He also assaulted a store clerk, and committed aggravated assault and battery on Wilson. He chose to use his large size for evil purposes rather than for good. He made Poor choices for friends as well. The friend that was with Brown when the shooting took place was asked for his testimony, started out that Brown was walking away, and shot in the back- is a lie.

Joe from Houston  

Posted: October 9th, 2014 11:09 AM

I think we're all focused on the wrong thing here, it's the fact that some ones 18 year old son is dead. Weather, black, white, blue green what ever color some one may be. No one should haft to make arguments for their child's death all because some cop used actsesive force behind a box of cigars.. Really? 3/5th that's all I gotta say.

Mose from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: October 7th, 2014 4:20 PM

Nice to read that you've dialed it back, Dan. A happy ending is probably out of the question for the officer or Mike Brown's family. Let's hope that the grand jury is careful to consider all of the evidence presented to them.


Posted: October 7th, 2014 10:32 AM

Moss, the only thing that I can say with any certainty is there will be no happy ending. No matter what the outcome, a lot of people will be up in arms, Those that support the victim, or those that support the cop. Even if Officer Wilson is exonerated, he will have to put into some protection program- somewhere, with a whole new identity- his whole family. Some of the best people that I've ever known are African Americans. They're good, down to earth people- Its a shame it has to be this way

Mose from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: October 7th, 2014 10:03 AM

Very true, Dan. The forum does provide us with an opportunity to share opinions and information. I viewed your posting as an attempt to assign guilt without any basis in fact. Better to wait for the grand jury to review the evidence the prosecutor presents and they will decide if the case needs to proceed to trial or conclude the shooting was justifiable. A rush to judgement by someone who has no access to factual information is of little value and raises questions about their motivation.


Posted: October 7th, 2014 8:46 AM

This forum is all about opinions, Moss, even yours. Its based on Mr. Deans opinion which is: black against white, when it should be about wrong VS right. When I see ridiculous assertions, not based on all the facts or something silly (like a white cop killing an unarmed black with his hands raised in the front of witnesses), I feel compelled to respond to them- no one's opinion, in this column, is based on all the facts- including yours Moss Without opinions this column would'nt even exist

Mose from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: October 6th, 2014 4:49 PM

Dan, before deciding which of the scenarios "makes the most sense" explain why this ought to be pondered by anyone who posts or reads comments on this forum? What's the point? Trying to rally the troops or create a groundswell? Why dismiss any explanation but your own? It sounds like you've already decided guilt or innocence without having heard any of the evidence that is being presented to a grand jury. Nothing's been leaked. Is this just your imagination running way from you?


Posted: October 6th, 2014 3:33 PM

Of the 2 scenarios below, which makes the most sense. Or, did Brown go to a shop to steal cigars, 4 pot smoke.The clerk tried to stop him from leaving and he assaulted the clerk, pushed him in by the throat. The clerk called cops with a description with stolen cigars. Cops found him walking down street, tried to stop him, cop was assaulted, and injured, pulled his gun- told him 2 stop, Brown stropped , came at the cop who fired, Brown kept coming, bull rushed the cop and was shot in top of. head


Posted: October 6th, 2014 2:04 PM

Brown and friend went to a shop to buy some cigars. Brown paid the clerk, and went to leave, but the clerk met him, and tried to steal the cigars from him. Brown explained that he had just paid for the cigars. Annoyed, Brown had to get physical and pushed the clerk back into the shop by the throat. The clerk falsified a call to police, giving his description to police, who recognized and went to stop him with lethal force- even tho he explained his plight, he was gunned down with hands raised


Posted: October 6th, 2014 9:07 AM

Here are two scenarios in the Brown case. Scenario #1 Brown was walking with his friend, minding his own business, and enjoying a nice day- when officer Wilson pulled up. The officer said: you're black, I don't want you walking down my street". They had words and Brown, having done nothing wrong, continued to walk down the street. Wilson pulled his pistol and shot Brown in the back, Brown turned around, put his hands in the air, and was shot 6 more times, the last shot in the top of his head.

ed scale from moeno valley  

Posted: October 5th, 2014 4:44 PM

no, because black people are no longer men but sheep who are being slaughtered. the ku klux kops believe in the 1857 supreme court chief justice roger taney declared in a court opinion that black people have no rights which the white man was bound to respect. black people have no human rights in the apartheid states.

Winter Skye from Chicago, Illinois  

Posted: October 5th, 2014 11:50 AM

@Tim: Why are you so afraid to say the word BLACK? I notice you have no problem saying WHITE so you must think BLACK is a dirty word or something. If you are WHITE, then this is a particularly interesting observation on my part. You see, whenever you treat someone differently (or refer to them in a different way), you are demonstrating a form of prejudice because you are deciding in advance how to judge them. Even if it's favorable, I mean! If you are White and speak to Black people with more sweetness and respect than you would a White counterpart, you are far from not being a racist. The true non-racist is someone who doesn't use a person's race/gender/ethnicity as a determinator for how they treat them.

Patriot from Atlanta  

Posted: October 5th, 2014 11:21 AM

in all reality it just looks to me like another wanna be punk ass gang banger cliped! I would almost bet money that the words college, military or job was not in this man's vocabulary! considerate population control gang bangers and thugs get dead! even a common face does not deserve to suck the same air as honest hardworking people.


Posted: October 5th, 2014 9:17 AM

Continuing, Mr. Dean should also take note of this- A DOJ study of 2012 revealed that blacks committed 6X more murders, 3X more rapes, 10X more robberies, and 3X more assaults than whites. Another study conducted by the FBI of 2008 in a crime report stated: Black youths made up about 16% of the youth population accounted for 52% violent crimes including: 58% of youth murders, and 67% of youth robberies. If you want to point fingers point them at the ones that commit these crimes- not the cops.


Posted: October 4th, 2014 3:51 PM

I don't think Brown was shot for stealing a box of cigars, nor shot for J walking- or being black, but the truth is: had he not robbed, nor J walked, he would still be here today- because the confrontation would never have occurred. A man on the internet has some insight that you may be interested in. Google: Brown 1814dreadyhead and listen what the man has to say. Its a 22 min. video- N worth listening to. There's 6X as many whites as blacks, but blacks still manage to murder more people- Why?


Posted: October 1st, 2014 10:51 PM

I must also say this to some of the people posting and commenting that Mike Brown had a right to be shot down like a dog in the street by Officer Wilson because he stole a box of cigars. I'm from California where all day every day, Hispanics and white youths, do beer runs, in my college days I manage several convenience stores. White, Black, Asian and Hispanics you stole things on a regular basis, also from Retail and Grocery Stores, I have yet to see one of those kids shot down for stealing.


Posted: October 1st, 2014 10:33 PM

There is plenty of Video of officer Wilson face, if the injuries are there and severe a enhancement of the tape should verify it. If not we have another Sanford Fl, Zimmerman walk in the station with no injuries and suddenly their is documentation. Do we really think they cannot get a doctor to false document after the fact.

Mose from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: September 24th, 2014 12:24 PM

Wayne, where is the evidence to support your claims regarding this incident? It appears you are just repeating unconfirmed news reports. The grand jury is charged with examining the facts and will make a determination. Trust the process to work before offering your verdict.


Posted: September 24th, 2014 10:22 AM

Officer Wilson should never have been put in a position, to have used lethal force. When officers fears for their lives, they should have the right to use lethal force. He had already been attacked by Brown, and Wilson almost lost his revolver to Brown. During the scuffle, Brown inflicted serious injuries to Wilsons face and he had proven just what he was capable of. There never should have been an altercation between the two to begin with. Maybe marijuana use affected his judgment, Sadly.


Posted: September 23rd, 2014 4:43 PM

Poor police officer, he get to live while Micheal doesn't. Poor, poor cop? What ever happen and I grant you we do not know all the facts, but what ever happened one person was unarmed and you don't just get to gun a person down. What happen to his training? Night stick and or tasser? To often the first response to African Americans is to shoot first. While whites get treated as if their life matters. This fact is clear even if other facts in this case are not., It is an country wide problem.

wayne from st louis  

Posted: September 23rd, 2014 12:37 PM

I think the saddest part of this whole Brown case, is that officer Wilsons life has been tragically torn apart, by someone who was portrayed as a sweet, tender hearted, child. Officer Wilson was just doing his job: enforcing the law. The evidence suggests that Brown disobeyed the law, and when confronted by Wilson, became belligerent, and attacked Wilson. During the struggle Wilson was injured by Brown (documented), there is a robbery (documented) and Brown, a lethal threat, was stopped .

Mose from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: September 23rd, 2014 12:09 PM

The grand jury is hearing evidence including testimony from Officer Wilson. Let's wait until all of the evidence has been presented and learn of their decision whether to indict or have found that the shooting was justifiable. There is much that we still don't know about the incident and it seems unfair to speculate on the guilt or innocence of either of Mike Brown or Darrell Wilson.

Tim Thomas from Richmond  

Posted: September 23rd, 2014 5:10 AM

First lets be clear, Micheal did not steal the cigars. Further video has revealed that he paid for them. Not shown by police, no big surprise there. However there was no 911 call from the store or its owner. A customer called police after a confrontation with the store owner that had nothing to do with the cigars. So yea he walked cause there was nothing to get away from. Moreover walking down the or in the street is not a shooting or kill offense. New audio released confirms he was surrendering

dan from st peters  

Posted: September 22nd, 2014 6:15 PM

All this was brought on Brown, by his own hand. For someone to strong- arm a theft in broad daylight, and then not try to make a getaway, but instead chose to walk down the middle of the street- like he did nothing? He was looking for a violent confrontation. This violence will end when people take responsibility for their actions- and learn to obey the law. ITS VERY SIMPLE ISNT IT? It seems to be a rite- of-passage in some neighborhoods, to get arrested and do time- does that make em good?

James from Benicia  

Posted: September 18th, 2014 8:10 AM

The black man always has his hand in the cookie jar. I work at a scrap yard and not one day goes by where we don't call the police because yes, a BLACK male is caught not only on camera, but by our employees loading copper onto his vehicle. 75% of the people coming in during the daytime are black. Not working like everyone else. They have a sense of entitlement to not take any responsibility for their own actions and blame others when they are caught doing it. Race card once again.

Mose from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: September 17th, 2014 9:04 PM

That's nonsense, Walter!

Walter j baldt from Philadelphia  

Posted: September 17th, 2014 8:35 PM

Why don't you write about black men shooting cops. You will find that it happens every dam day. So an unarmed blck man story is no big deal. If your going to write these kinds of stories write about both sides not just one.

fred from san berdoo  

Posted: September 16th, 2014 11:07 AM

This artical misstates the facts the thug who killed mike brown had no idea about the cigar incident he made contact with mike and his friend because they were walking in the street mike was killed for j-walking!!!.

put another way  

Posted: September 15th, 2014 3:57 PM

Reality chick -- your figures put another way are that 4-600 suspects are killed each year by 500,000 police officers and 158 police officers are killed by 12,000,000 suspects. So the odds of any one suspect being killed by a police officer are substantially higher than the odds of a police officer being killed by any one suspect. Your figures, which I did not check, show roughly 1 in 1000 police officers kills a suspect each year. Roughly 1 police officer per 76000 suspects is killed each year

Mose from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: September 15th, 2014 3:09 PM

Your research shoudl have provided you with better information. The 150+ police officers who die while on duty were not all the victims of the violent actions of a suspect. Auto accidents are the cause in a majority of these tragic incidents. No doubt poilce officers have been slain by criminals but to claim all were gunned down is simply false.

reality chick from somewhere  

Posted: September 15th, 2014 1:59 PM

Dr. Reno said 300 cops are killed annually, most by bruthas- from my research the average amount of cops that die each year at the hands of a suspect is 158. While that is less than the amount of suspects killed by cops, it is still a lot. Out of 12 million arrest in the US per year, about 400-600 suspects are killed. 12,000,000-600= 11,000,400 that don't die. There are less than 500,000 cops in the US. So 500,000-158 deaths. Odds of cop dying by suspect are higher than suspect dying by cop

Brian Slowiak from Westchester  

Posted: September 14th, 2014 5:08 PM

Worse, I think Dr. Jean Reno and James from Corinth are one in the same.

Mose from Oak Park  

Posted: September 14th, 2014 12:25 PM

Is Reno lying or badly misinformed? Police officers do die in the line of duty but to make a claim that 300 cops are killed annually by "bru-thus" is false. More likely the majority of officers were fatally injured in a motor vehicle accident or suffered a fatal heart attack. The fact that Reno chose to use offensive language and spelling to describe black males causes me to believe this post was motivated by racism and should be viewed as the hateful rantings of a very troubled mind.

Dr. Jean Reno  

Posted: September 13th, 2014 11:40 PM

Until police become mind readers (or get x-ray vision) they will have no way of knowing whether a black man resisting arrest---you know the old Rodney King thing of never doing what your told to do when stopped--is armed or not. By the way who says the po' black man was unarmed? I've see several cases where "friends" of the black guy hide the gun befor the cops ever get there. And... 300 cop are killed each year (most by bru-thus), so it'll be a while befor the cops catch up with you.

Jamie from Corinth   

Posted: September 13th, 2014 9:38 PM

It's so funny if it was a black cop and a white man it be so different y'all don't know what happen he was stealing . Kkk days or over I mean really ppl like u think cause y'all or they are black everyone should treat you or y'all special I hate to tell y'all in gods eyes where all the same so I don't feel sorry for him I do feel sorry for his family my brothers a cop he got jumped by 5 black guys he steal goes to work . And enforce the law right or black .he was not good If he's stealing

Winter Skye from Chicago, Illinois  

Posted: September 13th, 2014 12:07 PM

Terry, the problem is that you cannot control how other people feel towards you. As a woman, I cannot wait for all men to respect me and what other people think about me is none of my business. Opinions are nothing but projections from the other person, especially if they don't know you at all. If a White person is a racist, their racism reflects indoctrination, fear, anger (maybe a negative incident they have blown up to include all members of a particular group) and other subjective things. I listen to Al Sharpton's show every day and one thing I notice is how the callers often bring up racial incidents in their community. They keep saying "How long must we deal with this?" but their scope isn't much beyond perceived injustices. So they remain mired in the past and don't even see it. U do U! Anything else is a mistaken belief that you are dependent on acceptance from others to have a good life.

Brian Slowiak from Westchester  

Posted: September 12th, 2014 10:36 PM

driver to his hospital bed. Maybe to stop the madness, instead of talking about the madness would be to ask AG Eric Holder to reopen the case. Justice, fairness, madness or just talk.We can talk or we wish,Dean does. We all do.Anyone want to try action?

Brian Slowiak from Weastchester  

Posted: September 12th, 2014 10:30 PM

Terry Dean posts his opinion.That posting draws other opinions. But what do we do now. The Madness of an Oak Park police shooting an unarmed minority in our community drew the investigation of the Cook (CrooK) county States attorney. Part of that Office gave us Ed Hanarhan and The Black Panther Raid,killing two (Eddy was found guilty in federal Civil Court,no criminal charges),Jon Burge, Daley the First and his Homberg Athletic club and Rainbow Beach,DaleyII handcuffing the CTA bus

Mose from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: September 12th, 2014 5:53 PM

Terry, thanks for engaging in a dialogue with folks who posted on this forum in response to your column.

Terry Dean Wednesday Journal Employee

Posted: September 12th, 2014 3:11 PM

Oh, and what "benefits" do you speak of?

Terry Dean Wednesday Journal Employee

Posted: September 12th, 2014 3:10 PM

"Celebrate blackness"??? Would you like to expound on what that means from your perspective? And at what point in my column or comments here have I did this "simultaneous" juggling act you speak of? Thanks

Truth seeker  

Posted: September 11th, 2014 8:40 PM

Video of witness reaction. http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/10/us/ferguson-michael-brown-shooting-witnesses/


Posted: September 11th, 2014 5:56 PM

It seems to me that Terry Dean reflects the current status of many blacks who want to celebrate their blackness, and collect any benefits that come from being unique and a minority, while simultaneously deriding anyone who notices/points out negatives that go along with that "unique" status. You can't simultaneously ask people to applaud that you are different and then demonize them for pointing out negatives that are associated with status as different.

Terry Dean Wednesday Journal Employee

Posted: September 11th, 2014 3:40 PM

Agreed OP. Without question. But the tone, if there was one in the column, came from myself, a black man, and my own personal perspective and cultural experiences, which have merit and value, as it does for any other culture or ethnicity. And I don't necessarily couch that view, OP Transplant, solely based on the guilt or innocence of the victim. Anytime a black man is shot and killed by police, that is sad. Maybe not to other people, but to me. When a black man shoots and kills another black man, that is sad--to me. Again, people may see, or read into things that aren't there. If some people don't want to talk about race, culture or ethnicity in general, that's there prerogative. We don't live in a vacuum world or "Imaginationland." And as I stated before, I've also written about black men needing to be more responsible, more faithful to their wives or girlfriends, more involved in the kid's lives. etc. etc. Should I not write the word or talk specifically about "blacks" because such statements might offend some black people???

OP Transplant  

Posted: September 11th, 2014 3:14 PM

"...we can add him to the long list of unarmed black men and boys killed by police over the last decade or so..." Mr, Dean, if you weren't suggesting that the shooting was evidence of racism, why mention the word "black"? People of every race have been shot by police over the last decade of so.


Posted: September 11th, 2014 2:58 PM

Terry, are you really in a position to pass judgment on whether the store the kid visited was convenient or not? I mean have you actually been to that convenience store?

Terry Dean Wednesday Journal Employee

Posted: September 11th, 2014 2:52 PM

... If and when more facts come out, I'll reassess my point about the officer's actions. But based on what was released at that time and other witness accounts, I'll maintain what I wrote then.

Terry Dean Wednesday Journal Employee

Posted: September 11th, 2014 2:50 PM

The column is my opinion, whether my profession happens to be a journalist or not. But one thing I've learned as a journalist over these many years is this: people will see what they want to see and believe what they want to believe no matter what the facts are or truth is. I wrote nothing in this column about "white racism." But if that's what people want to see and believe, nothing I can do about that. And I didn't write anything about looting. When I write about such issues, I write very, very authoritatively--I don't suggest or beat-around-the-bush. The column was very, very clear, and very very fair, about the incident, Mike Brown's actions before the shooting, and the appropriate response of any police officer to use lethal force when his/her life is truly in danger--as I clearly wrote..."If Brown attacked the police, which is what the Ferguson Police Department says happened, then any cop has a right to defend himself, including using force, even if that force is lethal." But, as I also wrote, that didn't appear to be the case based on multiple witness accounts. And again, I wrote my opinion in a column, not reported on info gathered for a news article...

OP Transplant  

Posted: September 11th, 2014 2:33 PM

Mr. Dean-My observations are limited to the piece published above. I'm not questioning that you've written other pieces and published them elsewhere. You suggest that Brown's death is evidence of white racism. But, sometimes, white suspects are shot by police, without rioting and looting. And, often, black men are shot by other black men, without rioting and looting. What happened is Ferguson is rare, and I think that you, as a journalist, know that. Why suggest otherwise?

Terry Dean Wednesday Journal Employee

Posted: September 11th, 2014 2:32 PM

Lastly, in response to your request Winter Syke, we're not able to embed links in the comments section but can in main article/column section, which I've done here.

Terry Dean Wednesday Journal Employee

Posted: September 11th, 2014 2:12 PM

First off, while I love good dialogue, I promise --to myself and more importantly my editors--I will get back to work here at the job. Second, and primarily speaking for myself, I agree Uncommon, and I've made that point before (see accompanying column below). But how is solving our own problems, which we should, going to solve "white racism?, that is, those people who are racists against blacks? That's like asking women to stop "complaining about white male power structure" and only focus on bettering themselves. There's more women in the workplace, owning businesses, in political office, etc. etc. --and thank God for that. Does that therefore mean they aren't subject to discrimination, sexism or bigotry and should "stop complaining" about those issues????? I

Uncommon Sense  

Posted: September 11th, 2014 1:43 PM

complaining about white racism when if one truly looks at the black community, most of our ills are self inflicted and a result of victim hood propaganda. For me it, it is a matter of priorities. The 75% out of wedlock births, the poor school performance, glorification of street life, lack of economic empowerment, etc that really matter. If we are going to get mad, we have bigger issues to be mad about.

Uncommon Sense  

Posted: September 11th, 2014 1:39 PM

Terry, I think the criticism is 1) the tone of the article makes it seem as if there is an epidemic of black males being gunned down by police. There is no objective data to demonstrate this is the case 2) No one knows what exactly happened, yet instead of waiting for the incident to be properly investigated, we get demands for mob justice. My criticism is that too many journalist, pseudo intellectuals, and others spend an inordinate amount of time and ink...

Terry Dean Wednesday Journal Employee

Posted: September 11th, 2014 1:00 PM

For clarification, opinion columns and news articles are not the same, though people outside the news biz often make the confusion. Two, it is, in fact, a matter of context, because-- as common sense would dictate--several columns can be written about the same topic or related topics. To read one column and assume that the author has never written about other or similar topics is quite uninformed. Such claims have been made by some commentators here: "i.e. Why doesn't he [me] write about black on black issues." Answer: I have and, thus, I've added previous columns on this and related topics to give those who care to have it "context."

Brian Slowiak from Westchester  

Posted: September 11th, 2014 12:51 PM

this is not a issue of questions asked or context. This is a specific issue the 19 August article written by Terry Dean about police shooting unarmed minorities and the connection between Ferg/OP and the history of the OPPD shooting unarmed minorities. At the recent meeting I understand little if anything was said about OP history on the matter. this is not a issue of question or context,rather who,how and why frames the entire story.

Brian Slowiak from Westchester  

Posted: September 11th, 2014 12:42 PM

Terry Dean may have asked such questions. We all ask questions. The article written 19 August is on a specific topic, IE police shooting unarmed minorities, not black on black crime. The history of police shootings of unarmed minorities includes what happened in Oak Park. While a meeting was held in OP to discuss the Furgeson/OP connection, I can imagine little was said about what happened in Oak Park. It is not about questions asked, it is about who,how and why the question gets framed.

Terry Dean Wednesday Journal Employee

Posted: September 11th, 2014 12:31 PM

As a matter or context, here are two more past columns about this topic--in addition to what I provided in comment yesterday--that underscore my and other's concern about these issues. http://www.austinweeklynews.com/News/Articles/7-23-2013/It's-still-open-season-on-black-men-(and-women)-in-America/ http://www.austinweeklynews.com/News/Articles/4-11-2012/Seeing-beyond-the-hoodie/

Terry Dean Wednesday Journal Employee

Posted: September 11th, 2014 12:22 PM

I have asked such questions, in detail, previously OP Transplant. Read my comments from yesterday that includes source material. Both questions, in my mind, are worth asking and need to be asked--not just one or the other. Other people might not agree. They can choose sides and point fingers and find scapegoats if they choose to do so.

Bill Doogan  

Posted: September 11th, 2014 12:02 PM

Duty to Inform in IL's HB183 concealed carry bill gives police criminals legal cover for murder of black men. Are you armed? Hand over the gun- bang. He made a fast move, the officer defended himself. Case closed. Dead men tell no tales. How did this happen after NRA recruited black man Otis McDonald for their 2nd Amendment lawsuit? The Hick from Harrisburg Rep. Brandon Phelps put DTI in the bill because his pet rat traitor NRA lobbyist Todd Vandermyde cut a deal w/ the Chiefs of Police.

Brian Slowiak from Weastchester  

Posted: September 11th, 2014 11:38 AM

@ deflection; The Oak park Officer who shot and killed an unarmed minority never gave a public explanation

OP Transplant  

Posted: September 11th, 2014 10:20 AM

Mr. Dean's comments ("Damn, when will this madness ever end?") imply that young black men being shot by police is at some sort of epidemic level. The truth is that incidents of this type are rare. Explanatory context, which we might hope to see in an article written by a journalist, would note that when young black men are killed by guns, the shooter is much more likely to be another young black man or the victim himself. Mr. Dean might better ask when that madness will end.

Brian Slowiak from Westchester  

Posted: September 11th, 2014 9:11 AM

Why would Ofc. Wilson file a report? If Ofc. Wilson had a traffic accident w/the squad car, a second officer would have been called to the scene to make an investigation and complete a report. Checks and balances. Ofc. Wilson probably gave a statement.When asked to make a statement, the only refusal would be for time to obtain an attorney. Failure to make an ordered (under duress) statement results in termination. I am sure Ofc. Wilson made a statement,citizen access to that is limited.


Posted: September 11th, 2014 8:22 AM

John Q -- you make a lot of good points but I am bothered by your assertion that Ofc Wilson owes no public explanation. Someone does. He is a public employee & entrusted with public safety. If he had filed a proper police report there might be fewer questions. It gives the appearance of a cover up. We have different versions from others said to be his account. It's part of my frustration that an unarmed young black man was shot and killed & no official explanation given.

John Q  

Posted: September 11th, 2014 4:21 AM

if you think Chicago doesn't have CAPS attendees who feel that they engage in dialogue and have a sense of belonging with cops I'd disagree. That does nothing however for the police hating criminals out there. You may not feel OPPD is hostile or aggressive on enforcement but I'll bet you haven't been arrested either. I think OPPD is a great dept but I know many of the criminals they lock up day and night wouldn't give as glowing reports simply because they locked them up...

John Q  

Posted: September 11th, 2014 4:17 AM

Mose, Ofc. Wilson not coming out and speaking is wise. You forget that he is a public employee and could be prohibited from speaking to the press regarding a work related incident. Even if not people don't really care what he thinks or says, they want to string him up and drag him through the streets. Don't expect that because he tells us, who he owes no explanation, what really happened that the public will believe him let alone accept it. I first got involved with CAPS shortly after its start

Brian Slowiak from Westchester  

Posted: September 10th, 2014 9:19 PM

@ Mose; When was the last time you heard dialogue about the Oak Park Police shooting an un armed minority?

Mose from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: September 10th, 2014 7:34 PM

Brian, I guess there are a lot of differences between the two communities. Having never been to Ferguson,Missouri, I cannot say if the residents and police actively engage in dialogue that might result in mutual understanding and cooperation. Oak Park has certainly devoted a lot of time and energy to make sure people are included and feel a sense of belonging. It hasn't always been successful but don't believe Oak Park police are viewed as being hostile or aggressive in terms of enforcement.

Winter Skye from Chicago, Illinois  

Posted: September 10th, 2014 6:31 PM

Terry, thank you for providing those articles and I will be glad to read them. Please try and get WJ to make links clickable so that it's easier to go to the article.

Brian Slowiak from Westchester  

Posted: September 10th, 2014 5:28 PM

This is not about black on black crime. This is about police officers shooting unarmed minorities, The contrast here is how one officer shot and killed an unarmed minority, and was welcomed back into the community and how one officer shot and killed a minority is being vilified. Is the WJ going to report on the meeting at the library about Fergueson and Oak Park connection.


Posted: September 10th, 2014 5:25 PM

Thanks, Terry.

Terry Dean Wednesday Journal Employee

Posted: September 10th, 2014 5:25 PM

Another column about such crimes, and one giving a deeper analysis with solutions to the core problem. http://www.austinweeklynews.com/News/Articles/9-22-2010/One-more-thought-about-the-new-Black-KKK/ http://www.austinweeklynews.com/News/Articles/11-22-2006/A-positive-statement-for-the-brothers/

Terry Dean Wednesday Journal Employee

Posted: September 10th, 2014 5:07 PM

I have written columns about blacks committing crimes against one another. Just two examples here. http://www.austinweeklynews.com/News/Articles/10-1-2013/Our-community-elders-deserve-better/ http://www.austinweeklynews.com/News/Articles/6-2-2010/New-'KKK'-is-terrorizing-the-black-community/


Posted: September 10th, 2014 4:53 PM

@reflection -- I wouldn't presume to know Reverend Jackson's intentions any more than I would presume to know Officer Wilson's. Terry Dean's column is about the police shooting and killing young, unarmed black men. Let's ask him to write about black on black crime next. Then those comments would not be out of place. More local efforts: http://cureviolence.org/the-model/about-us/ http://politics.suntimes.com/article/chicago/quinn-pfleger-lead-anti-violence-march-south-side/fri-07112014-918pm

Brian Slowiak from Westchester  

Posted: September 10th, 2014 4:42 PM

@ Mose: Wild Bill was called Wild Bill because he was wild Bill. My question is why did two completely different communities act completely different to a police shooting? Why did no outside sources come in to Oak Park and demand justice? What is the major difference between the shootings? look what the insiders did to control the Vannecko murder. Why isn't Oak Park talking about the difference? Is it possible that the two police officers are/were treated unfairly?


Posted: September 10th, 2014 4:35 PM

Darren Wilson previously worked for a department that was disbanded because of racial tensions between the town's police force and residents. He then went to Ferguson where several years prior white police officers beat an unarmed black man and charged him for destruction of property for bleeding on the officer's uniforms. It's a bad history. The facts will end up disputed as Michael Brown can't testify, the police report, filed 10 days later, has no narrative, and Officer Wilson isn't talking.


Posted: September 10th, 2014 4:30 PM

@defelction-Seems as though Rev Jackson is merely deflecting responsibility from the individual/local level to the feds. Jackson's take seems to be "someone else magically solve the problem with more money". With Jackson, it always seems to be some else's responsibility to resolve the ills of the AA community. The straw man in question resides in the mirror.


Posted: September 10th, 2014 4:16 PM

Terry Dean's point continues to be deflected. He doesn't discount the issue of black on black crime but rather is alarmed that unarmed young black men are being shot and killed by police. Separate issues. As for leaders not attempting to address black on black crime: http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2014/07/09/rev-jackson-obama-feds-need-to-do-more-to-combat-chicago-violence/ Now can we let that straw man argument go?

Steve from Oak Park  

Posted: September 10th, 2014 3:29 PM

Just ask Patti.

Mose from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: September 10th, 2014 2:13 PM

Cynthia, I did a little internet research on William Kohenke and read Dan Haley's columns detailing his own experiences with Oak Park's former chief. Not sure if I would describe him as a "meat and potatoes" guy as much as a loose cannon. Controversy certainly seemed to follow him thoughout his career in law enforcement .

Bill Dwyer  

Posted: September 10th, 2014 1:36 PM

FYI- http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1988-05-30/news/8801030238_1_rental-van-foot-chase-rental-office

Bill Dwyer  

Posted: September 10th, 2014 1:22 PM

That was an African American officer involved, as I recall, Brian.

Cynthia M from lincoln Park  

Posted: September 10th, 2014 1:16 PM

Bill Kohenke WAS "Wild Bill" and he was a real "meat and potatoes" police chief. . But one morning at my Toad Hall B/B breakfast table--as were entertaining international guests-- we were totally gobsmacked when he led the conversation in perfect Russian. He was a fun guy.

Mose from Oak Park  

Posted: September 10th, 2014 10:48 AM

Brian, I remember Chief Kohenke. Wasn't he known as "Wild Bill" during his time in Oak Park? How did he earn that moniker and what the circumstances that resulted in him leaving the department?

Brian Slowiak from Westchester  

Posted: September 10th, 2014 10:19 AM

No riots. No looting. No outsiders. No DOJ. The Oak Park community was basically quiet.The Chief of Police did not change the Rules and Regs on rukes of engagement.The contrast and comparison to these two shootings is remarkable.

Brian Slowiak from Westchester  

Posted: September 10th, 2014 10:15 AM

The Oak Park Police shot and killed an unarmed minority possibly on 30 June, 1988. a five year veteran of the OPPD was involved in a chase w/ a stolen Uhaul on Roosevelt. A foot chase ensued and the perp cornered the officer, and threatened his life by advancing on the officer. The perp then grabbed the officers gun and puled the gun toward him causing the gun to discharge,striking him in the head. Kohenke, the chief at that time came out in the Chi. Trib to support his officer.

Mose from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: September 10th, 2014 9:38 AM

I did no such thing, Ray! A defense for Mike Brown was not offered. We still have not learned from the officer any of the details regarding this encounter. You have rushed to judgement without knowing all the facts. My response to Doug from Reno called into question the animosity of his comment. Referring to Brown as a "dirtbag" and claiming all "dirtbags go to hell" was offensive and for someone who cited scripture as support for his position ignored a promise Christ made to the good thief.

Ray Simpson from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: September 9th, 2014 11:51 PM

@ Mose This "Young Man" is about to ruin the career of a young cop who was doing his job. Seven years on the force and no reports of racial bias - in a community where he is a minority. Defend Michael Brown if you need but don't sacrifice a young man who was put in a difficult position and we must assume he did his best.

Mose from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: September 9th, 2014 11:14 PM

Not sure how things are in Reno, Doug but 18 year olds will often make mistakes and sometimes their poor choices do have life changing consequenses. The death of Mike Brown was tragedy for his family and friends. No desire to prove you wrong but do wonder why you need to express such animosity towards this young man?

Doug from Reno   

Posted: September 9th, 2014 9:54 PM

Well let's look at this from a parents view 1. Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 2. Honor your father and your mother. 3.You shall not steal. 4. All dirt bags go to hell He was not out going to church or looking for a job. He was high. It was in the report that his parents had done. Mabe if they were so involved with his life as they are now in his death he would not have died as a dirt bag. Prove me wrong. My kids are not knocking over liqure stores on pushing the owners over.

Winter Skye from Chicago, Illinois  

Posted: September 7th, 2014 11:01 AM

@Jay: Thank you for saying that. Truth be told, most people make assumptions based on whether someone says one thing against another poster. I am appalled that Terry Dean was allowed to pose in that picture like he was under attack from the police. He still has not addressed the much larger issue of male Black-on-Black violence and I doubt he ever will. Anyone who thinks it's a good idea to pose in such a disempowering way and to encourage his brethren to see themselves as such seems to have erroneous views on what is more of a threat to Black men in America. And there is no way for me to put any sense in his head regarding it. To wait around for others to see the light is to give others your power. Slavery used to be physical and now it's a mindset.


Posted: September 7th, 2014 9:03 AM

Why we always gotta call names

Phil from Ny  

Posted: September 6th, 2014 7:56 PM

Amazing how you write an article without knowing all the facts. What's more amazing is that from the time Trayvon Martin was shot till this incident 425 blacks were shot in Chicago by other blacks. You,Jessie Jackson, and Al Sharpton did nothing nor did you take the time to write anything! Maybe if you clowns focused your energy on the true problems there would be no problems. Remember educated black professionals don't ever seem to get shot, I wonder why?

John Q  

Posted: September 6th, 2014 5:33 AM

Mose, I read more than one piece that suggested it was a dog handler with St. Louis County Police and not a Ferguson cop. I say it to say this: small discrepancies cast great doubt to the credibility of your posts. That department is being investigated on a federal level. If you think their chief is dumb enough to order them to do controversial and unethical things right now, of all times, I would say that is highly unlikely. The feds will know how many times a day these guys fart by the end.

Ray Simpson from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: September 5th, 2014 9:54 PM

So many rumors - so few facts. Funny how the protesters have packed up and moved on. They may have gotten their 30 seconds of fame and know it. We have heard several positive stories out of this mess. The citizens cleaning up after the protesters. Citizens standing guard outside of businesses. Citizens helping store owners clean up after the looters. People are, for the most part, good and caring and should be a part of the story

Mose from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: September 5th, 2014 9:41 PM

Ray, it's my view that the police chief of Ferguson is either not in control of members of his department or they are acting on his orders. Unconfirmed reports that officers assigned to the canine units were allowing dogs to urinate on a public memorial were very disturbing as were those rumors that the KKK was planning to march. Hard to know what is factual or an attempt to stir emotions. Let the grand jury sort it all out and decide the appropriate course of action.

Ray Simpson from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: September 5th, 2014 6:20 PM

GG should read Grand Jury - - sorry

Ray Simpson from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: September 5th, 2014 6:19 PM

@ Mose it is very likely you will never know what the GG sees and will only know whether they decide to bind the officer over. I see it this way Mr Brown was leaving the scene of a felony and the police officer observed him acting strangely. The officer called mr Brown over and things went south from there. The procedures of the police dept was less than professional but probably a new experience for them. This is a good example of what happens when a small town police department encounters world class race baiters. .

Mose from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: September 5th, 2014 6:02 PM

Bill, my point is that there's a lot of misinformation that's been circulating without any confirmation by investigators. To know that the police chief lied about something like the video release calls into question what else have we heard/learned that might be untrue. I'm willing to wait until all the evidence is presented to and examined by the grand jury before reaching any conclusions. How about you or is your mind made up?

Bill Dwyer  

Posted: September 5th, 2014 5:41 PM

And, so, Moses, does that, if true, change what's on the tape? I.e., young Mr. Brown robbing a store and battering the clerk. What's your point? The guy's on tape committing a felony.

Mose from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: September 5th, 2014 4:18 PM

Ray, looks like the police chief lied about receiving FOIA requests for the convenience store video. The official report of that incident is now available online. Photo currently circulating on the web claims to show injuries suffered to the face of Officer Wilson. It's bogus! Lots of misinformation out there. Let's wait for the grand jury decision.


Posted: September 5th, 2014 2:55 PM

@winter Hey man, you know what? Your right, I'm sorry. Gotta stop hitting these forums up late night. I'm a bit to opinionated, and need to shut my trap and learn to put myself in other people shoes. Peace, Jay

Winter Skye from Chicago, Illinois  

Posted: September 5th, 2014 1:24 PM

@Jay: You decided that I was against everything you wrote because I mentioned IT'S?! I said that because it never fails to amuse me when people calling others stupid online and write YOUR STOOPID. In any case, do you see how subjective you are and quick to jump to conclusions? You decided you knew everything about me based on one thing I wrote and you were utterly wrong.

Ray Simpson from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: September 5th, 2014 10:13 AM

Why have we heard so little from the Ferguson police Dept and city government? Could it be that they know they have the facts and the proof on their side and are also smart enough to know that if they exonerate the police officer all hell will break out again. Let the lack of ill intent of the police officer come out in the grand jury. The speed of allowing a grand jury hearing indicates to me that the city and its legal staff know what is there and are more afraid of race hucksters than legal liability.


Posted: September 5th, 2014 5:29 AM

@Winter Sky, So you called me out on the use of the word "it's". Yet you don't really seem to have any reasonable argument, you mention guilt, who do you think feels the guiltiest? Why are white Americans from the south supposed to feel guilty about abiding the law and and agreeing that racial equality is important and essential? And if it was so bad, why did your race stay put? You all stayed and now run the south but yet your people still kill each other and are worse off than before.


Posted: September 5th, 2014 5:12 AM

@Winter Sky, Y

Winter Skye from Chicago, Illinois  

Posted: September 4th, 2014 12:35 PM

@Terry Dean: Unfortunately, you choose to gravitate towards symbolism which is the exact opposite of empowerment. And for the record, statistics show that you would have a wayyyy greater chance of needing to put your hands up with another Black male versus a cop or White man. So maybe traipse through Austin and North Lawndale and put your hands up and say PLEASE DON'T SHOOT! I'M INNOCENT!!! Do you see how pathetic it is to be in such denial?

OP Transplant  

Posted: September 4th, 2014 12:31 PM

dan-I agree that it's very unlikely that a uniformed officer just decided one day to shoot a citizen for no reason in broad daylight in full view of numerous witnesses. The most unapologetic of self-avowed racist KKK members don't do that, but this police officer supposedly did. No one who is posting here knows what actually happened, but I'm not inclined to believe the least reasonable version of the events.

Winter Skye from Chicago, Illinois  

Posted: September 4th, 2014 12:31 PM

@Jay: And irony is using the word stupidity and then misusing ITS.

Bill Dwyer  

Posted: September 4th, 2014 12:21 PM

My my, Jhobe Brunkt. Yours must be a painful mind to be stuck in.


Posted: September 4th, 2014 11:53 AM

I think it's insane to believe that an officer of the law would gun down an unarmed man in broad daylight without cause- it just doesn't make sense. It's equally difficult to take the word of his friend. According to him: "Brown was first shot in the back", (when upon autopsy, that was found to be a lie). His friend, therefore, is no longer a credible witness. For the truth, release the juvenal records, and polygraph the officer and any witnesses, to maybe make some sense of this mess.

Mose from Oak Park  

Posted: September 3rd, 2014 11:21 PM

Jay, let's dig a little deeper and look at who is commiting the majority of violent crime in this country. By far, males are responsible for most of the murders, rapes, robberies and assault 80% vs. 20% by female offenders. Guys are overwhelmingly guilty of white collar crimes. Hate crimes too! Look at the gender of serial killers. Mostly felllas. Terrorists and hijackers? More than likely to be a man. Why are male so violent and corrupt and what is being done to protect society from them?


Posted: September 3rd, 2014 10:42 PM

Almost everyone I know who has frequented, lived or worked downtown in my area has been mugged, beat up, harassed or worse by black people! Is it madness to protect yourself? If poverty is the mother of crime, stupidity is it's father.


Posted: September 3rd, 2014 10:38 PM

Why is it madness now any white person shoots a black person? What about black on white crime I'm just guessing but I bet it's 500% higher than white on black crimes. I believe in statistics, regardless of the percentage of black on white crimes. Statistics show one out of three black males while end up or spend time in jail. The jails definitely need reform, but where I live the county is run by blacks, who are doing nothing for the 90% black majority living under their jurisdiction downtow.

Jhobe Brunkt from Baton Rouge  

Posted: August 30th, 2014 4:10 AM

May ! Everytime someone needs a BUCKET of Chicken, they need DRUG. drug ain't free ! chicken - you gotta kill with that watermelon.

In Glen Ellyn formerly from OP  

Posted: August 27th, 2014 1:27 AM

James- get off? He won't even be charged, can't be charged, because of the inconvenient detail of eh-vee-dense. In the US, evidence DOES matter. I say the cop's insurance company should sue M.Brown's parents for medical bills and suffering, and who's going to pay for all those police? The owners of the destroyed and looted businesses should be entitled to compensation from the M.Brown estate and parents for inciting a riot and breeding a bully.

In Glen Ellyn formerly from OP  

Posted: August 27th, 2014 1:16 AM

Mose, was that really you at 11:26? That post actually sounded human and factual.

Mose from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: August 26th, 2014 11:26 PM

Your "perps" attracted an officer's attention when he observed them walking in the middle of a street. The minor offense escalated in to a violent and deadly confrontation. Taking the life of an individual even in the line of duty often has a powerful emotional impact on a police officer. I'm sure this an experience that Officer Wilson will never forget. Most police officers never had to discharge their weapon in their careers. I don't believe Dr. Baden's autopsy cited any shots in the back.

Ray Simpson from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: August 26th, 2014 8:25 PM

The testimony of Browns friend about shots in the back is interesting because it is in his best interest not to connect the two events. If it is determined that the shooting happened as the two perps were fleeing the scene then the friend could have a felony murder charge slapped on him. I am sure his lawyer is trying to keep him quiet now.


Posted: August 26th, 2014 6:38 PM

im tired of the race card bieng played and Jessie jackson and AL sarpten coming out of the wood work it is ridiculous. an officer has a right to defend himself whats going to decide the case is, would a reasonable person in this situation use deadly force, also let me add witnesses are notorious for distorting and misrepresenting the truth. i believe the officer has a good case and will probably get off.

Michel Gaddis from Medina  

Posted: August 26th, 2014 5:33 PM

I'm just wondering if Obama and Holder will be getting involved in the Utah case where the white unarmed teen was killed by the Non white ( Black ) officer....

Michael from Seattle  

Posted: August 26th, 2014 4:13 PM

Why do black people make a race issue out of these type of occurrences? Same week a black cop shot a white guy coming out of a 7-11 because he fit the description of a guy with a weapon. It was not the perp. He did not have a weapon but he shot and killed the innocent white guy with no weapon! He had not just robbed a mini mart and punched a cop! The the looting! Oh god the looting!! And the author of this article actually believes that the poor black community has been wronged? Just stop!!

Tracey from Fayetteville  

Posted: August 26th, 2014 2:20 PM

I will be so happy when this is all over, no matter what the outcome is. It is all sad, any death of any one, by anyone accidentally, or self preservation, it is sad. If you attack a police officer in ANY city they are armed to defend themselves, and if you try to take their gun, then you are the one taking your own life in your hands. Daughter of a police-officer my WHOLE 55 years.

In Glen Ellyn formerly from OP  

Posted: August 26th, 2014 9:30 AM

clarification- there was no reported injury within the squad car from the gun's discharge. I believe the officer's severe eye injury from the assault was made known after this article was published.

In Glen Ellyn formerly from OP  

Posted: August 26th, 2014 9:24 AM

Shame on you, Terry Dean for either following your boss' direction/example for providing inflamatory and misleading commentary for a relatively peaceful and diverse community or shame on you for taking it upon yourself to harm peaceful relations with this opinion piece for whatever reason. Be sure that your efforts in a professional position, though protected by law, have contributed to hurt relations, understanding, and sympathy between community and cops, and between white and black. So sad.

In Glen Ellyn formerly from OP  

Posted: August 26th, 2014 9:15 AM

ion 4) by witness accounts, both erroneous and otherwise, initial shots were fired at but without hitting the halted 18yr old 5) the apparently invincible 18 yr old is reported to have taunted the officer and rushes him 6) initial shots, several hitting him off center of mass, fail to deter the massive 6' 4" 18 yr old as the 35 foot 7) distance between them is quickly reduced to 3 ft with the 8) last shot hitting the falling body mass in the top of the head. Not shot for jwalking or being black.

In Glen Ellyn formerly from OP  

Posted: August 26th, 2014 8:57 AM

profile- 1) clear video evidence of 290 lb. 18 yr. old male, later known to have drugs in his system, stealing and intimidating with no weapon a store clerk when confronted 2) wide witness testimony of his pushing officer back into squad car and, with no weapon, assaulting the officer within it until the officer's weapon discharges with no injury to either person 3) he gets some distance away, apparently unharmed, having just "whipped the officer's butt" according to this story author's descript

Ray Simpson from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: August 26th, 2014 7:37 AM

In answer to Mr Deans question the problem will stop when black men quit killing other black men. Calls to 911 bring a cop and you do not get to "press one for a caucasian officer - press two for an African American officer - etc.-" Those calls put the police in danger and at a distinct disadvantage. There are 50 black on black murders for every 'cop shoots black man' incident. I would assume that the vast majority of black men shot by a cop were involved in some sort of illegal or violent activity. How many of those AA/Cop incidents involve a black cop? That information is never provided. If you are a small town (Ferguson) cop and you are a racist bully it takes less than seven years to become evident. I have seen NO former reporting of negative actions by the Furguson cop. I believe he got into a bad situation and fought his way out the only way he knew how. I also believe that given another choice he would have acted differently. We will never know.

Mose from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: August 25th, 2014 11:05 PM

Not a true fan of the Billo show but thought it was interesting that he would offer such an nasty evaluation of how the Ferguson Police department has handled their investigative duties. Strange that you chose to lecture me about not reaching any conclusions without facts after you stated that Mike Brown was a "thug" who "cold cocked the cop". "broke his eye socket" and "tried to take his gun". Sure seems like you weren't "waiting for the rest of of the facts to emerge". Who's sorry now, Bill?

Bill Dwyer  

Posted: August 25th, 2014 9:58 PM

Well, Moses, there you go. Bill Reilly has passed judgement on the Ferguson police department. So that defines your definition of legal conclusiveness now? So sorry for you. The FACT remains, some of the facts are out. Let's all try waiting for the rest of the facts to emerge, shall we? Unless you're really satisfied with Bill Reilly's conclusions here.

In Glen Ellyn formerly from OP  

Posted: August 25th, 2014 9:39 PM

Mose- I, too, wonder why M.Brown's body had lain in the street so long. Unfortunately, I questioned the source of the info, (local witnesses), more than the significance of the info. I lose, thanks to the varied local witness misrepresentations of other aspects of the situation. I really wish the locals had saved their rebellious self-riteousness for the mentally impaired AA who acted out the "suicide by cop" tragedy days later in St. Louis. I saw the vid- no 290 lbs of charging momentum there.

Mose from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: August 25th, 2014 9:08 PM

Grand jury findings are now not expected until October. Let's see if Ferguson Police did in fact conduct a fair investigation. Hard to explain or justify detectives not showing up on the scene for almost 1 hour and then ordering the corpse of Mike Brown to remain laying in the street in four hours. Lots of questions but the fact is the officer shot an unarmed man 6 times. Right wing icon Bill O'Reilly derided the Ferguson police as "keystone cops"

just the facts justified again from Philadelphia  

Posted: August 25th, 2014 3:42 PM

Fact..responses + protests have been made with out most facts that need to be gotten. Aka fair investigation. Hang him first mentality by many and our president. Did this huge unarmed man attack a police officer after video shows a violent crime he just committed. Byt...T.Martin (was bigger than Marvin Hagler ex middle weight champ.) Facts showed repeated slamming of George Zimmerman head while sitting on top against a concrete sidewalk (after he broke Zimmerman's nose) was shot right then.


Posted: August 25th, 2014 12:44 PM


Bill Dwyer  

Posted: August 25th, 2014 12:39 PM

The spokesman refers to the 'part that details Wilson's version of events.' That's his statement. There isn't a modern police department around that doesn't take an officer's statement after a major incident like the Brown shooting. And FWIW, news reports for more than week have been referring to certain witnesses whose versions of the event support Wilson's. So Wilson obviously has, in fact, made a statement.

Mose from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: August 25th, 2014 12:34 PM

A number of news outlets have reported that while Ferguson Police have a 16 page official report relating to the store incident, there has been no confirmation from Ferguson police that Officer Wilson has provided details or witness statements have been obtained. You are citing a St.Louis County spokesperson.

Bill Dwyer  

Posted: August 25th, 2014 12:24 PM

You're in error, Moses. In fact, Wilson has made a statement, but it's not being released. Big difference.--Time Magazine reports St. Louis County police department spokesman Brian Schellman, citing a 'pending investigation,' told TIME that 'the department does not intend to release the "investigative" component of the incident report, the part that details Wilson's version of events.' You serve no good purpose when you misstate the facts, Moses.

Bill Dwyer  

Posted: August 25th, 2014 12:16 PM

Where are you getting your facts from, Moses?

Mose from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: August 25th, 2014 11:05 AM

It goes both ways, Uncommon Sense. Police departments also have been found to protect officers who have committed crimes. You may recall a recent incident involving a drunk off duty cop beating up a female bartender. Investigators at the scene did not immediately arrest the attacker and allowed him to leave. Only after video of the incident surfaced did CPD take action and charges filed. Studies show officers wearing lapel cameras produce a significant decrease in brutality complaints.

Mose from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: August 25th, 2014 10:13 AM

Ferguson police department confirms a 16 page report was produced relating to incidents at the convenient store but that Officer Wilson has still not provided an official statement or filed an official report regarding the shooting the Mike Brown. The department also acknowledges that officers opened fire on a deranged man with a small steak knife within 15 seconds of arriving on the scene. Police did not attempt to calm down the suspect, disarm him peacefully or use less than deadly force.

Uncommon Sense  

Posted: August 25th, 2014 10:00 AM

The same people complaining about police releasing the MB robbery video are the same people who will cry and moan about all the crime in their hood and claim police don't care. Which one is it? The reason there is so much crime in the black community is because black folks protect the criminals and make excuses for anti-social behavior. How many times have we seen the mothers of known thugs claim they were a "good boy" despite a preponderance of evidence showing otherwise?

In Glen Ellyn formerly from OP  

Posted: August 25th, 2014 8:27 AM

If undermining the system of justice by bearing false witness, endeavoring to suppress evidence, or endeavoring to withhold the reporting of a crime that affects the public isn't a punishable crime under some category of "obstruction of justice", it should be. Sneaks, cheats, liars AND thieves should all face responsibilty for hurting the public safety and security.

In Glen Ellyn formerly from OP  

Posted: August 25th, 2014 7:59 AM

Somebody called the cops for the convenient store strong arm, of course, as should have happened, and the surveillance tape evidence was obtained by authories to identify the perp, as should have happened. We know the above two actions help defeat crime and privide justice. If you're related to the criminal in question and don't believe in defeating the criminal, well... we saw what happened... the system of justice is undermined and innocent people suffer. That is intent to obstruct justice.

John Q  

Posted: August 25th, 2014 2:32 AM

both incidents at the same time. Also, did the store manager ever say the police demanded the video? Again, people jump quickly onto a couple media prints and get misinformed. No the police cannot forcibly take the video from him but if you believe that he told them no and they took it anyway...well I don't.

John Q  

Posted: August 25th, 2014 2:30 AM

Beth Totten, don't believe the hype. Just because the owner says he did not call the police does not mean no one else called. I have a friend that works in law enforcement in St. Louis and she told me that when the incident happened she was out of town. A friend called her to tell her about the shooting and told her the guy that was shot had just robbed a store before it happened. She told me the media has outsiders thinking the information was not already known but she found out about...

In Glen Ellyn formerly from OP  

Posted: August 25th, 2014 1:23 AM

I do firmly believe that if the president had shown up after the first day or night of rioting, he could have saved a lot of destruction, ill-will, embarassment, and taxpayer cost. Way to represent the people, prez. Was he at another fundraiser or busy dealing with terrorists, promoting illegal drugs, or vacationing? I don't remember, he just might have been confused double speaking with Isreal, Russia, the Muslim Brotherhood/Hamas, or China. I really dislike missed opportunities of harmony.

In Glen Ellyn formerly from OP  

Posted: August 25th, 2014 1:08 AM

Before someone shoots me... do I believe what I just said is so simple and clear cut accurate, of course not, but I bet someone thinks I'm a racist now and may want to shoot me now in the name of justice. ha

In Glen Ellyn formerly from OP  

Posted: August 25th, 2014 1:04 AM

I love "hispanics", too. Replace the single issue of "justice" with "illegal immigration amnesty" and they voted 67% and 71% for Obama in '08 and '12, at 9% and 10% of gen population respectively. They're not too happy- they didn't get an Hispanic president nor the promised immigration reform. Single issue voting hurts.

In Glen Ellyn formerly from OP  

Posted: August 25th, 2014 12:53 AM

Some in the wider blk community see this embarrassing pair of facts but are afraid to speak up and be labeled as Uncle Tom's and "white" even by their families. I live with one (among other housemates). Kinda like how Obama got 95% & 93% of the AA vote when the general population gave him 53% & 51% of the vote respectively nationwide in '08 & '12. Is that 41% and 39% if AA segment (13%) is entirely removed? Justice my eye.

In Glen Ellyn formerly from OP  

Posted: August 25th, 2014 12:24 AM

The FACTS that the M.Brown parents called for nothing less than the murder conviction of the cop for action just after their son commited strong arm robbery before the investigation AND for suppression of the vid. evidence of their son committing the strong arm robbery is just embarassing for anyone claiming to want justice. The family is essentially saying TWICE that evidence doesn't matter. Amazing how fake and uneducated people can be. Get a dictionary and look up "justice", and "truth", too!


Posted: August 24th, 2014 11:55 PM

I'm not even saying that the cop is definitely innocent, nor am I saying he's definitely guilty. I'm saying that the black community has made it their goal to paint the cop as a guilty racist murderer, and a symbol of how all white cops are racists, before all the evidence is in. Public perception has played such a huge role in allowing these riots to occur, and perception has been twisted on both sides. Brown is merely a political tool for people like Al Sharpton and JJ.


Posted: August 24th, 2014 11:50 PM

to the crime. It's also relevant because Brown knowing that he robbed the store would act differently to the officer pulling him over, compared to if he had not committed a crime. Why are the show keepers denying the robbery? Because they don't want to be a victim from the backlash they would receive by siding against Brown, who has become somewhat of a martyr for the black community. Imagine how much hate they would get if their testimony leaded to the innocent verdict of the cop.


Posted: August 24th, 2014 11:45 PM

beth, why does the family and lawyer get to try to spin public perception by painting Michael Brown as a harmless angle, and the cops are not allowed to show Brown (with video evidence) to be a violent individual? Cases are sometimes won or loss, due to the lack of evidence, but the characterization of the individuals involved in conjunction with what evidence is available, so I would say that releasing the video IS relevant to the situation, especially considering it was an event that lead up

Ray Simpson from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: August 24th, 2014 5:12 PM

I understand that the video was released under a state version of the FOIA and the police had no option!

beth totten from cambridge, new york  

Posted: August 24th, 2014 4:24 PM

The police chief did not have to release that video of the supposed strong arm robbery. He only released it because he was protecting the cop who shot the unarmed boy. What right do the cops have to go into stores and demand the tapes of that alleged robbery without a warrant. The owner said he didn't call the cops. Also that young girl they took her cell phone of the shooting without a warrant. That cop didn't seem to injured by the tapes. He should be arrested. Then let a jury decide his fate.

Spirited Debate  

Posted: August 23rd, 2014 7:06 PM

By the way, if you know anything about anthropology we are all Americans of African descent. Some more pigmented than others. Go back far enough in the family tree and Officer Wilson shot his cousin Mike Brown. Justifiable force, maybe, murder, maybe, I was not there. Either way a tragedy, ABSOLUTELY. None of the good upstanding citizens in Ferguson deserved this. And I'm guessing none of the cops wanted to be there but that was their assignment. The few who instigated, deserved the tear gas.

Spirited Debate  

Posted: August 23rd, 2014 6:56 PM

I just saw a debate between Juan Williams (filing in for Bill O'Reilly) and Jason Reily. Dr. Reily is an American of African decent and believes we wont heal the police/race divide until we recognize that police deal more often with violent black crime than white. Their (police) guard is up when encountering black youth because of this, just like our guard is up when we see a pants to the ground youth wearing gang colors. Unfortunately the black youths arent making it easier when they act up.

Grey Island  

Posted: August 23rd, 2014 6:25 PM

because they are considered "privileged", and don't have a history of being persecuted for their color, so in this day and age, being persecuted through "street justice", whether warranted or not, is more socially acceptable than the reverse. Today, a black mob stomping on a white guys head is an awful crime, but a white mob stomping on a black guys head is a horrific act of racism.

In Glen Ellyn formerly from OP  

Posted: August 23rd, 2014 6:21 PM

Ray- lol @ Glen and the 3%ers. I cried myself to sleep (nap) wondering what I did wrong.

Grey Island  

Posted: August 23rd, 2014 6:21 PM

Bill, I was merely going by what was reported in the WJ. Maybe I should be pulling facts from other places instead, but yes I agree that the facts need to be presented? However, the idea that black on white crime gets a pass as being less note worth of public outrage, is still an issue. I'd imagine that if white people went out in the streets to protest these crimes, they would be branded as "bigots", "KKK", "racists" etc? Whites are not allowed to talk about black on white crimes as racism

Bill Dwyer  

Posted: August 23rd, 2014 6:10 PM

Easy, Grey Island. I covered the Alton Hayes case several years ago, and I recall the police disc outing that alleged comment. Agree with your concerns, but I'd advise staying on the factual straight and narrow.

Grey Island  

Posted: August 23rd, 2014 5:55 PM

What about the game "knock out" where groups of black go around dropping white people, not limited to adult, but also women and old folk? If this was reversed where white people were going around in flash mobs assaulting blacks, it would be a national sensation, call as national disgrace, acts of racism, and there would be protesting, rioting and looting in the street. When whites are the victims of these hate crimes, nothing happens. So are the blacks going to admit this double standard? No!

Grey Island  

Posted: August 23rd, 2014 5:51 PM

are blacks. If you commit a crime, you obviously have a much higher chance of having a run in with a cop, it's that simple. Also, blacks complain about unfair treatment against them due to their skin color, and say no one else has to deal with it, ignoring the violent black on white crimes that have been happening in recent years. What about the flash mobs of blacks that were targeting lone white people? What abut those 2 blacks in Oak Park that attacks a white saying "this is for Trayvon"?

Grey Island  

Posted: August 23rd, 2014 5:46 PM

You talk about the "long list of unarmed black men and boys killed by police over the last decade" as some sort of racist agenda the police all over the US, but lets see all the specifics of those incidents. How many were straight up police "murders"? Were they in the heat of a struggle? What were the circumstances? The black community often complains about how blacks are subjected unequal arrests, but never talk about the fact that (at least in Chicago) the majority of people committing crimes

Grey Island  

Posted: August 23rd, 2014 5:41 PM

was at a lowered angle, which could or could not have indicated that he was rushing the cop, but does say that he had to have been at close range to receive those shots. You make it out like the cop was punishing Brown for the robbery, but there is no evidence to suggest the cop knew he robbed etc. So many people have already decided Wilson to be guilty before the evidence was even in, and like you, I doubt their minds will be changed even if the evidence shows the cop to be innocent.

Funny Name  

Posted: August 23rd, 2014 5:41 PM

@Hugh Janus, clever name.

Grey Island  

Posted: August 23rd, 2014 5:38 PM

Terry Dean, talk about cherry picking your "facts". You, like some many others, have taken part of the "evidence" and "witness accounts" and made your own recipe of a story to back up your personal assumptions and obvious biases. You say the "witnesses" saw him with his hands up. Well "witnesses" also said he was shot in the back, which has now been contradicted by the autopsy report. You use Brown's getting shot in the face as "evidence" of the cops guilt, yet fail to mention that his head

Ray Simpson from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: August 23rd, 2014 5:31 PM

@ Jorge - those rubber bullets turned out to be ear plugs that someone dropped. A couple dozen cops with tear gas can make several hundred looters and rioters wand to be any where else and doing anything else as well.

Grey Island  

Posted: August 23rd, 2014 5:30 PM

Unarmed white guy was shot to death buy black cop in Utah. Unarmed white guy was shot to death in Dallas. Where's the outrage? Where the rioting? Where's the looting? Where's race card? The black community and the mainstream media portray these crimes as some kind of crusade against blacks, but when they happen to white people (which they do), or some other race, it suddenly doesn't hold the same significance. Talk about a double standard.

Bill Dwyer  

Posted: August 23rd, 2014 5:14 PM

What 'two cops,' Jorge? There was just one cop who shot Brown. After the thug cold cocked him and broke his eye socket and tried to take his gun.


Posted: August 23rd, 2014 5:10 PM

Another thing that I wanted to mention is that the police in Ferguson were shooting tear gas at the press as well as physically assaulting those in the press and arresting them for no reason. Jay how do you justify that? They also shot rubber bullets at a white female pastor who was demonstrating peacefully. Was this the police "protecting" us?


Posted: August 23rd, 2014 5:06 PM

Jay, if they were two black cops shooting a white kid those cops would either have been arrested and put in prison or killed. That is the truth. It is because Darren Wilson is white and Michael Brown is black that Darren had it not been for the media would have probably received another medal. Can you imagine if we didn't have the media or cell phones that take vids? This would have been a non event.

Ray Simpson from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: August 23rd, 2014 5:00 PM

@ Glen I did not intend to use the "and" to include you - sorry

Ray Simpson from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: August 23rd, 2014 1:26 PM

@ Glen and the 3%'rs have always ruined it for everyone.

In Glen Ellyn formerly from OP  

Posted: August 23rd, 2014 1:16 PM

yup. Or we can just be honest and fair with one another. The former takes a huge amount of material resources (money, man-hours, etc.) to control us; the latter takes a huge amount of mental resources (reason, logic, patience, cooperation, understanding, memory, adaptability, etc) to control ourselves. Which is cheaper? Which is easier? Control ourselves or be controlled? Rule ourselves or be ruled? Live free or die.

Ray Simpson from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: August 23rd, 2014 12:30 PM

@ Glen - to do that our society has set up rules of behavior and this bunch of looters and race baiters refuse to live within those parameters. That is why we allow police to carry guns and use them when necessary. The cop was enforcing our rules and was defending us! To find this police officer guilty of anything, we need to prove that he intended to kill the kid. He may have made a mistake and over reacted and I am sure he will be willing to explain what happened. The witness has proven to have distorted the facts to the point of filling a false report ( a felony) What Sharpton et al want is a rigged jury that will excuse anti-social behavior by condemning the peace keeper. Cops do work that we choose not to do and get very little community support.

In Glen Ellyn formerly from OP  

Posted: August 23rd, 2014 10:24 AM

We have to choose to care for ourselves.

In Glen Ellyn formerly from OP  

Posted: August 23rd, 2014 10:17 AM

hmmm, perhaps bad choice of words because I don't mean to have us arm ourselves with guns to use against eachother for control. To police eachother would mean to mediate our discontent for the sake of understanding and peaceful resolution, peace and stability even if everyone's expectations aren't perfectly satisfied. Thank goodness we have that option in this country more than probably anywhere else. What a waste when we don't choose that option. We have to care for eachother. Better?

In Glen Ellyn formerly from OP  

Posted: August 23rd, 2014 10:05 AM

We have to police ourselves.

In Glen Ellyn formerly from OP  

Posted: August 23rd, 2014 9:53 AM

Many newsmaking incidents of black on black, black on white, and even white on black violence are more questionable, potentially more controversial than the Ferguson incident, including, IMO, the St.Louis shooting just a few miles and days removed from the Ferguson one, that did NOT invoke rioting. Some people in Ferguson chose to be offended and even feel justified to be violently destructive. Obama could have chosen to rebuke these self-imposed and divisive choices before so much waste. FAIL.

Ray Simpson from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: August 23rd, 2014 9:16 AM

would there have been any outrage or comment by Mr Dean, or anyone had the kid been white and the cop black? I venture not. We are now learning that Al Sharpton is Obamas eyes and ears in Furguson. Does anyone find that appalling?

wade from crestline   

Posted: August 22nd, 2014 6:22 PM

look at the facts, that black kid deserved to die, he attacked a police officer after robbing a liquor store! the white kid that a black cop shot was unarmed, did not attack a cop, and didnt just rob a store. i hope that black cop gets death!

Ray Simpson from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 9:00 PM

@ Mose - you seem fixated upon pigmentation and cannot see beyond that first eighth of an inch of skin. That my friend is racism! This situation in Ferguson is being manipulated by the race baiting hucksters who make a living promoting hatred. You have set yourself up as a voice for their dishonesty. No one here has given the cop a pass, likewise we are not calling for his conviction. The facts will tell all - if DOJ doesn't muck it up by demanding "social justice" You might convince people if you could show any incident where this cop has abused or shown disrespect for any black in his town. If that was the situation it would be all over the demonstrators signs and mindless chants. There is no proof that there was any racial component to this unfortunate situation.

In Glen Ellyn formerly from OP  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 8:11 PM

Ray- hilarious situation looking back. Gotta luv the irony. MOSE- your hypothetical really occurred in Ferguson: M Brown's family demanded that the officer be convicted before the shooting evidence was gathered, even denying that the evidence that their 300 LB 6'4" "child" had just robbed the nearby store mattered. In fact, they were upset that the damaging character evidence was even made public, that it was used to damage their son's character. Duh! What a ridiculous sentence, but true!!

Mose from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 8:02 PM

It's hard to find humor in a KKK cross burning, Mr. Simpson. Your grandfather may have decided to just laugh it off but doubt the families of lynching victims ever forgot the brutality and horror they experienced. Still wondering why you and Josh seem so intent to rush to judgement? Don't both Officer Wilson and Mike Brown deserve a fair hearing of the evidence? The prosecutor will provide the grand jury with facts and they will determine if charges are warranted. Allow the process to work.


Posted: August 21st, 2014 7:03 PM

That's a really pathetic response, Typical. I'm sure you believe you're right. Yet you can't- or won't- explain WHY you believe you're right? You're not willing to explain your thinking. Really? That would make YOU the problem on these boards, Typical, not those of us willing to actually engage in detailed debate. I'm genuinely weary of folks who can't support their opinions on these boards, and who don't have the guts to deal with differences of opinion in a detailed, specific manner.

Ray Simpson from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 7:01 PM

@ Mose - please do not speak to me about the KKK. My grandfather was a European immigrant who had a cross burned on his front lawn because his english was not so good. He laughed about it because he owned the laundry/dry cleaning plant in their town and he knew that half of the cowards beneath the sheets took a paycheck from him every week ( During the depression) and that most of the sheets would come to him for cleaning.

Mose from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 6:42 PM

The KKK is in your corner Mr. Simpson and Josh from Oak Park. A Missouri chapter of the Ku Klux Klan is planning a fundraiser this weekend for Ferguson police Darren Wilson. They too have already decided that the shooting of Mike Brown was justifiable. No need for them or apparently you fellas to hear the actual evidence that the prosecutor will be presenting to a grand jury. Just go with news reports based on leaks. Case closed!

JOHN MURTAGH from op  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 4:45 PM

Salvation Army, Maybe. Catholic Church, No Way. Have you checked its balance sheet lately?

Joe from OP  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 4:16 PM

@Typical = Name Caller. Because, after all, ad hominem attacks are the easiest tactic in debate/discourse one can use!


Posted: August 21st, 2014 4:05 PM

Uncommon and Dwyer, I have no desire to engage when so many of these comments violate WJ's own Comment Policy. It's simply not worth trying to have a thoughtful discussion. I am, however, interested in knowing why WJ allows this to continue. It's awesome they published Terry's piece. It's right on. But don't publish it if you're not willing to get the inevitable flow of bigotry under control that you know will come from the other direction. Give us the option to turn comments off. Something.

Adam Smith  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 4:00 PM

@Typical is Terry Dean. I recognize the writing style.

Uncommon Sense  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 3:53 PM

@Typical, you say you like to debate, but you have yet to offer a single counterpoint or attempt to deconstruct someone's position you disagree with beyond claiming people are racist.


Posted: August 21st, 2014 3:48 PM

Still can't be specific, can you, Typical? Can't give even a single example?


Posted: August 21st, 2014 3:40 PM

Spirited Debate, you ever go in a coffee shop where there are a bunch of grumpy old guys sitting at the counter? You just want a muffin and you have to listen to their moronic views. But you get to go back outside and pick a different coffee shop tomorrow. One that doesn't have racists sitting at the counter. The grumpy racists at the counter = Wednesday Journal usually. I'm not the thought police. I like debate. But WJ could find a better way to allow that so it's not a constant stream of BS.

Jane from Oak Park  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 3:37 PM

I find it interesting that this same article is available on the Austin Weekly website and there are zero comments posted the last time I checked. Must be the people who read that website are busy working and improving themselves instead of trying to prove to others how tolerant or indignant they are.

Josh from Oak Park  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 3:19 PM

@Ray: You're wasting your breath with Mose on that one. I tried to tell him that the other day in another thread, even supplying a link to Brown's accomplice admitting through his lawyer that they took place in the strong-arm robbery. Even though that is about as first hand when it comes to knowledge as you can get, he still insists it's hearsay. LOL...

Daisy Aura  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 2:53 PM

John The reason that black people were grouped together with in High Rises is not because they were black it was because most of them would have been living on the street if it were not for free public housing. you could be white/mexican/oriental/ mixed breed - the thing they have in common is that they are broke. Beggars cant be choosers is how the saying goes

Ray Simpson from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 2:52 PM

@ John Murtah - how about turning HUD over to churches and private charities? Let the Salvation Army show us how to get 100 cents for every dollar and salvage lives rather than doom them.

Ray Simpson from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 2:47 PM

@ Mose - the young man who was with Mike Brown has admitted that they did do the convenience store. He may not have been convicted but watching the security tape gave me enough proof to claim that he was involved in a felony. His roughing up the owner made ham a thug as well!

JOHN MURTAGH from op  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 2:46 PM

The Ferguson incident is not an incident. It is a tragedy caused by neglect. For more than forty years, the FED has micro-managed lives to attain its view of Fair Housing. From the Co-ops in New York to the hi-rises of Chicago, the faulty vision of HUD led to 100% segregation (black segregation) that destroyed millions of lives. Ferguson is the focal of failure. It is not alone. HUD needs a major overhaul starting with less staff, less salaries, and less pontificating.

Spirited Debate is Healthy  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 2:42 PM

What I find silly is when the Thought Police such as Typical chime in and try to silence anyone with an opinion he/she doesn't like by suggesting that some vague unidentified collection of superior people turn up their noses ("openly mock" to use Typical's words) the discussion here. Who cares?

chris from Oakland  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 2:35 PM

Really another reporter trying to incite racial divide.. reread the autopsy. . It said his arms were not raised .. and the last I checked assault and battery is a crime.. you go lick your wounds but if someone assaults me and then bum rushes me I'm going to protect myself. .. funny your report doesn't mention anything about the recent shootings of unarmed white men by black cops or black cops killing black men.. it seem if it is unjust then why mention color.. cop shoots another unarmed citizen.

Smarty Pants  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 2:13 PM

@Hugh - I would bet significant odds that Winter Skye is our beloved VA.

Hugh Janus  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 2:05 PM

Uncommon - even though I probably got rejected from Yale because of your admittance through affirmative action, you are a real cool cat. Does anyone know what happened to Violet Aura - i miss her

Mose from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 2:03 PM

Excuse me, Mr. Simpson. Where did you get the information that Mike Brown was a felon? I recall reading that he no prior criminal record. Are you passing judgement without knowing all the facts? Trust you are not going with details that have been leaked to the press. The prosecutor has yet to present any evidence for a grand jury to decide whether the shooting was justified. Seems reckless and careless to assign blame prior to learning the facts.


Posted: August 21st, 2014 1:53 PM

Ray, believe me there are other outlets for discussing this current event...not many with OPers. That would be the nice angle here. But WJ consistently allows a few to monopolize the conversation with their twisted worldview. And why would anybody want to add to that one-sided discussion if there are other outlets? It gets frustrating seeing story after story of community news with 50 comments of negativity, racism, baiting, etc. Which is why it's the same people always. WJ needs to step in.

In Glen Ellyn formerly from OP  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 1:42 PM

Hugh, etc- How can you (do whatever and) not be racist? Avoid the labeling and appreciate the good deeds when you see them done by "those people". Remember our commonalities. We know how to argue and separate from even family members for stupid reasons that we don't call racism, so we need to be careful not to attribute the same types of disagreements to race differences when it's just an easy knee-jerk thing to do.

OP Transplant  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 1:36 PM

Uncommon - I'm not sure you're allowed to identify yourself as black. "Typical" will need to vet your beliefs about society and race, and then decide if you're black. You can get in a lot of trouble for having opinions that haven't been approved by paternalistic white progressives!

Uncommon Sense  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 1:29 PM

Hugh, ebola was created by the racist white new world order to control the black population in Africa. You need to keep up on these things.

Hugh Janus from Oak Park  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 1:09 PM

Next thing I expect to hear is that us white folk will be blamed for the Ebola Virus. How can you watch the news and not be racist.

Uncommon Sense  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 12:53 PM

I'm a 40something educated black man. HBCU undergrad. IVY MBA. I've been the "only one" in a sea of white faces more times than I can count. Yet, I don't ever recall being called the N word or other derogatory terms. Yet, I've lost count of the times I've been called Uncle Tom, Sellout, Corny, Oreo, etc for choosing to buck the victimization narrative. Not too mention pandering white progressives calling me a racist.

Uncommon Sense  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 12:47 PM

@Joe, opposing viewpoints are drowned out in the community. Consider how much Bill Cosby was excoriated and he is a guy who has done more for the black community on a weekend than many of these hucksters will do in a lifetime. Gave $20 million to Spelman College. Created positive images of black families when there were none. Now imagine your everyday black guy deciding to get off the victimization plantation.

Ray Simpson from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 12:39 PM

@ Typical - what do you want to discuss about Ferguson? How evil the police are? How brave the imported hate mongers and looters are? What an angelic child the 300 pound felon was? You are seeing a cross section of ideas and opinions here and you might not like what you see but no one is preventing you from stating your case. Most of the racist narrative is coming from the liberal left


Posted: August 21st, 2014 12:25 PM

I'm less concerned about the racist posts. More concerned that WJ could do more to create a welcoming (moderated?) place for OP to discuss Ferguson? (Or anything else for that matter.) I'm wondering how many frequent posters here know this comments section is openly mocked in outside community discussions...for being crazy! Instead of what everybody is talking about elsewhere...that we'd like to chat with neighbors about...we come here only to read this train wreck. WJ it doesn't help you grow.

OP Transplant  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 12:12 PM

Typical - The idea that all bad outcomes experienced by white people can be attributed to their own personal failings, but all bad outcomes by black people are caused by racism, is simply nonsensical. Any 300-lb. man who fights a police officer is likely to get shot. The officer doesn't say, "I'll shoot this guy because he's black, but I'd let him beat the hell out of me if he were white."


Posted: August 21st, 2014 12:10 PM

(cont) how do you think the media would portray a tea party rally that lasted for weeks, all while physically attacking any one that dare speak a differing opinion, burning down businesses? We both know the answer, but I am curious as to whether you have the ability to see reality.


Posted: August 21st, 2014 12:08 PM

Typical - what about the not-so-subtle racist portrayals by the media? You haven't heard much about the angry mob that chased that "white b**tch" supporting Officer Wilson last night. The cops have been letting animals run riot through the city for nearly two weeks...burning down businesses, shooting guns, attacking cops, etc. Yet 2 white people show support for the officer that was attacked, and they are forced to leave the area. Also... (cont)


Posted: August 21st, 2014 11:34 AM

Typical, your criticism is, unfortunately, 'typical' of the vague criticisms you so often read here. 'not-so-subtle racist views here'? Such as? Ignorant? In what way? You sound indignant. Care to tell us about what, exactly?

Ray Simpson from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 11:32 AM

@ Typical - a rather strong indictment of fellow citizens views. What, specifically, do you find wrong? The facts of Furguson are one sided and slanted toward the opinion that the cop was wrong. Prove it or be quiet. AG Holder just stated that the anti cop forces were right and he is on their side. How is that justice?


Posted: August 21st, 2014 11:08 AM

Gotta love the typical "wacky" WJ comments section. I hope anyone stumbling on this thread understands that the not-so-subtle racist views here, thankfully, don't represent the views of most (or even many) Oak Parkers. I'm thankful most Americans recognize what's going on Ferguson as the wakeup call it is. Some of these statements are truly disgusting. Your right to say them. But so, so ignorant. Of course, a few of you think you're being cute. It's not. It's offensive.

Joe from OP  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 10:59 AM

Also, we should make no mistake that this same sentiment -- that both sides of the story are not covered equally and that this is cause for frustration or worse-- is felt by many just below the surface in our precious hamlet of OP.

Joe from OP  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 10:52 AM

If @Glen Ellyn is saying that frankly stating what @OPT said has been said all along by many influential voices, I would disagree. I think influential voices like Bill Cosby and Stevie Wonder who have, for better or worse, more "moral authority" by virtue of their skin color are few and far between -- that's why the small handful are the same examples trotted out again and again.

In Glen Ellyn formerly from Op  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 10:42 AM

While we're expressing our disdain for the false white bogeyman and black grievance industry, from our perspective here near Chicago and from successfully integrated and relatively peaceful middle and upper middle class suburbs, we must still honestly advocate against discrimination and violent profiling elsewhere in the country where it still exists and stand up for people who can't themselves. We can effectively do more from our comfortable settings than they can backed in their corners.

In Glen Ellyn formerly from OP  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 10:27 AM

I guess it has to become fashionable and cool to be honest, fair, understanding, and take personal responsibility for one's own actions and influence unto others. We've had frank voices of reason and commentary, as well as of mutual and self respect for decades by famous individuals of all colors... two successful, uncorruptable non-white entertainers come to mind: Stevie Wonder and Bill Cosby. We know there are others, and even wise family or community elders that we need to remember and heed.

Uncommon Sense  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 10:25 AM

Further, there is an entire black grievance industry that is invested in this narrative. You have pseudo scholars like Michael Dyson, politicians, attorneys, and the typical Revrunds all profiting from convincing the everyday black man all his woes are because of white folks. Not too mention the complicit white progressive politicians who support this nonsense for political votes. Meanwhile the black community burns from within...

Uncommon Sense  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 10:20 AM

OPT hit the nail on the head. Black folks have been conditioned to believe there is this evil white boogeyman out to get them. Part of the reason is that many of the folks who suffered under segregation. Many don't want to believe things aren't like they used to be... this is why I said the civil rights movement in some ways was too successful in that many can't get over that there is no longer a white racist boogeyman that is a factor in their lives.

Joe from OP  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 9:50 AM

@OP Transplant, your comments are striking both because they are so politically incorrect AND because there may be more than a grain of truth to them -- and therefore worth considering. I'm afraid however that 99% of the time people just don't want to acknowledge this. Thanks for having the courage to at least state your point.

In Glen Ellyn formerly from OP  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 9:50 AM

Witnesses can lie, leaders can hide, media can misdirect and mislead, but unedited and unstaged video typically doesn't lie. Seeing how lives, careers, places, and neighborhoods can be easily and violently ruined by deceit, makes me want to wear 360 degree recording cameras on myself during every waking moment, maybe even while sleeping! Invest your money in body cameras- that business will boom very soon among police authorities and should among civilians, too, I think. False testimony sux.

OP Transplant  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 9:41 AM

Many Americans who are not white (and I include many of my own people) are conditioned to automatically conclude that if something bad happens to them, it's the result of racism. This mind-set keeps them from exploring how their own actions may have resulted in the negative outcome. Their lives become a series of self-destructive acts, bad outcomes, and efforts to blame others. So, since they never feel compelled to change their own behavior, their lives never improve.

Joe from OP  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 9:17 AM

Has anyone noticed the similarity between the response of the folks in Ferguson who obscured the details of the assault on the cop and the response of the kids stuck in Bali who complained about the food they got in prison as if it were a civil rights issue?


Posted: August 21st, 2014 9:12 AM

Let's see - media blowing a white on black crime out of proportion. Is it an election year? Oh year, it is.

In Glen Ellyn formerly from OP  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 9:03 AM

Ray- you may have noticed this in life, too, how adult children of a strongly opinionated parent often don't share the same views, sometimes being embarassed by the one-track fervor developed and spewed by their parent before the children reached adulthood. When the strongly opinionated don't find unconditional support among friends and family, who are culturally and socially closest, often alienating them in their self-riteousness, they seek and find an audience elsewhere.

Ray Simpson from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 8:43 AM

Editor Ken Trainor has told us , in the past, that his son is a police officer. It would be interesting to get his opinion as a dad who probably believes that the protesters are correct. That should be a tap dance of the year!

member of society  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 8:25 AM

"Innocent" and "victim" do not apply here; let's start there. If he doesn't commit strong armed robbery, hit a cop and/or resist arrest he would be alive. Responsibility is a two way street. If a drunk driver kills you while you drive the wrong way down a one way street who is to blame? Looting and violent protests are an absurd reaction as well. How can the "protesters" expect to be taken seriously?

Uncommon Sense  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 8:21 AM

Meanwhile back in the real world, a 9 year old black kid was shot and killed last night. No Messy Jackson, No Al Sharptongue, No New Black Minstrels. No wussy Chris Hayes and other MSNBC white libs talking about how they can relate to black angst. No Parks and Crump yelling for justice. No Attorney General flying in on AF1. The hypocrisy and selective outrage is just too rich for words.

Ray Simpson from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 8:01 AM

FOX News did a couple minute piece on the citizens of Ferguson who clean up after the protesters. White, black, brown and yellow skinned Americans working side by side to bag and dispose of the crap left by the hooligans the previous night. Which group respects their community more - from my perspective these are the patriots.

Ray Simpson from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 7:47 AM

Juan Williams, liberal and black, offered an interesting observation. Black men in the inner city often settle disputes with violence. The way they win is when the other guy is dead. Cops sent to stop the violence, doing their job, are many times white. I sure wouldn't want to be put in their shoes. The police officers trump card is the ability to use his gun to defend himself and others. The paper work for discharging a weapon is excessive, I understand, and injuring or killing someone multiplies it by magnitudes. Every officer who works high crime areas knows the rules of the road and do a pretty god job of keeping law and order. Those who harbor racial hatred cannot hide it for long and are soon convinced to assume other work. BTW three cheers for the good citizens who are up at dawn cleaning up their community. They are the real heros of this whole story.

In Glen Ellyn formerly from OP  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 7:34 AM

Ray- he just jumped on the bandwagon or he was instructed to stir things up for the sake of debate. He may not even be at liberty to apologize for fueling discontent and dishonesty. Seriously, prison time for a box of cigars? The trick of acceding to the camp of opposing sentiments some feigned sympathy in the intro. paragraph doesn't make up for the remaining bulk of harmful misinformation and misdirection. What a waste of opportunity for good will among ALL people.

In Glen Ellyn formerly from OP  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 7:22 AM

And lastly, pres. Osama should have been front and center after the first night of violence to quell this snowballing discontent and irrational pursuit of single-minded false justice. He totally failed, not just the white-folk that put him in office and want good "race" relations (and who will likely foot the bills), but the others who likely won't even feel embarrassed or shame for being so wrong. The pres. missed yet another opportunity to be OUR President. How brave to send Att. Gen. so late.

Ray Simpson from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 7:17 AM

How can Mr Dean claim that most of the black men killed by cops committed no crime? I have seen no proof that that statement is even close to true. He states it as a fact, which he may believe. It may be true that many of those who died were never convicted but that is just an issue of timing True to Wednesday Journal tradition heartfelt opinions can always be assumed to be true.

In Glen Ellyn formerly from OP  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 7:11 AM

This is the real world, not some fantasy world where words and actions don't have consequences. Who pays for the damages at the hands of looters emboldened by the self-riteous liars insisting on playing victim? Who pays for all the police man-hours required to keep the peace? The turmoil was solely caused by the willful unfair response of the protesters in denial of future investigations, originating from the Brown family lawyer and family's insistence only of the cop's conviction for "justice".

In Glen Ellyn formerly from OP  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 7:02 AM

The Ferguson protesters' willful denials have set back "race relations". Also, the folks there need to be held accountable so this b.s. doesn't happen so easily again, not to mention it would be fair in the name of justice that they so loudly demanded. The family of "child" M. Brown should be sued for the serious injuries to the officer. The town should be sued for the damages to the businesses and for the costs of the innumerable responding officers. No free pass for this lying nonsense.

Marilou Heinz from Irvine  

Posted: August 21st, 2014 1:25 AM

There are probably twelve witnesses that saw what really happened and whether he was unarmed or not he assaulted the officer and he charged him thus causing him to be shot repeatedly when he kept coming. He had no way of know he was unarmed. That is a racial excuse. This was seen and the black community asked the last video be taken down. Go figure.

Ray Simpson from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: August 20th, 2014 5:29 PM

Interesting statistic - For every black man killed by a cop 50 black men are killed by another black man. If we carry this one step forward how many of those black men were killed by a cop who was defending another black man? Kind of gives you a different perspective. I don't know any police officers who would put their lives in jeopardy to score a point.

John from RF  

Posted: August 20th, 2014 5:13 PM

Wow. A fractured eye socket? Does anyone here realize how hard the cop must've been hit by Brown in order to break his eye socket?!! No patty cake going on there.

joe from south oak park  

Posted: August 20th, 2014 5:11 PM

Wait for the investigation. If the reported injuries to the officer from his altercation with Brown are correct, (orbital blowout fracture) the shooting will likely be found justified. I just hope that if/when this happens that it doesn't spark more violence in Ferguson or spread to other locations.


Posted: August 20th, 2014 4:48 PM

My apologies. That last was directed at 'DontShoot.'


Posted: August 20th, 2014 4:46 PM

Actually, you can shoot an unarmed person under certain circumstances, "Voice of Reason." Just like you can convict someone on amassed circumstantial evidence, despite what the general public believes. And smashing a cop in the face causing serious injury, then trying to take his gun, and then charging at him again with your 6-foot-4, 300 pound body constitutes one of those circumstances where lethal force is justified and legal.

Voice of Reason from OP  

Posted: August 20th, 2014 4:33 PM

The truth slowly starts to emerge, despite the cacophony of those in the media and the grievance industry. Yes, the officer was beaten pretty badly by a 300 lb guy who was on something. Now this....http://youngcons.com/breaking-autopsy-expert-hired-by-michael-brown-family-is-a-huge-fraud/....From WDAF in Kansas City, the "autopsy" bought by lawyers for the Brown family is a fraud. It's too bad this whole thing keeps getting more weird by the minute. What's next, Kaito Kaelin??


Posted: August 20th, 2014 4:26 PM

Brown gets a pass because he's the victim. Why do we judge the cop? He's the one who pulled the trigger. Simple as that. Regardless of what went down, you can't shoot someone who is unarmed. That doesn't sit right with anybody...except for a few people trolling here.

OP Transplant  

Posted: August 20th, 2014 4:05 PM

It's reported that the officer was pretty beat up. Anyone, regardless of race, who starts hitting a police officer is likely to get shot. Comply with police officers when they are exercising their legal authority, and you don't have to worry about it.


Posted: August 20th, 2014 3:59 PM

Several news outlets are reporting the shooting officer had "serious facial injuries' due to Brown's attack on him. One outlet says cop suffered a fractured eye socket from a punch.- - - http://sunnewsonline.net/usnews/news/ferguson-cop-had-serious-facial-injury-source-tells-abc-news-abc-news - - - http://www.foxbangor.com/national-news/missouri-cop-was-badly-beaten-before-shooting-michael-brown-says-source.html

In Glen Ellyn formerly from OP  

Posted: August 20th, 2014 3:53 PM

to DontShoot- you misunderstand my intention. I certainly don't think he should be shot dead for the box of cigars, but for entering the officer's squad car and struggling over the gun until it discharges... why why why do the racist protesters, using the mantra of "white cop kills unarmed black teenager", want to DENY the relevant actions of M. Brown leading up to his death? And destroy their own neighborhood in the process? Dare I say, "cultural irresponsibility"? "Blame whitey" is so wrong.

Josh from Oak Park  

Posted: August 20th, 2014 3:53 PM

...departments are put in place full of officers to keep the peace and they do have authority over them. Which means in certain situations, you must do what they say. Don't know why this is so hard to grasp. Want to live in a lawless society and don't have to listen to peace officers if you don't want to, head on over to Mogadishu and let us know how that works out.

Uncommon Sense  

Posted: August 20th, 2014 3:53 PM

chose to riot and throw a temper tantrum instead of letting a proper investigation into the incident be completed. We are a country of laws, not mob rule.

Josh from Oak Park  

Posted: August 20th, 2014 3:52 PM

If there was any assassination of character to Mr. Brown, he did it to himself. Strong-arm robbery + drugs in system possible resistance/charging and/or going for an officer's weapon are not a good start. Even adding all those things and the fact that he was reportedly a member of a violent gang, all those things are immaterial. You know why I would never think of charging an officer or reaching for his weapon? Fear of getting tased or shot. We live in a law-filled society where...

Uncommon Sense  

Posted: August 20th, 2014 3:50 PM

@#Don't Shoot, quit making excuses. Going for an officer's gun most certainly will get you shot. Stop watching movies where everyone gets shot in the knee cap. If you do something to cause an officer to pull his gun, at that point you are playing Russian roulette with your life. Yes, MB's death is tragic, but choices have consequences. If we aren't to judge MB, why are you then allowed to judge the officer's actions? This fiasco started because a certain segment of the population


Posted: August 20th, 2014 3:37 PM

Glen Ellyn (and many comments here) seem to be insinuating that there is something this young man could have done to deserve being shot. That's not the way this country works and, beyond racism, the character assassination going on that blames the victim is exactly the kind of culture we need justice from. There is nothing this unarmed teen could have done--not even going for the officer's gun--that gives the police the right to kill all while circumventing the court Brown had a right to.

the hunter's wife from Oak Park  

Posted: August 20th, 2014 3:24 PM

If Brown's arms were raised in the air, how did a shot that passed through his arm end up in his chest cavity? Perhaps you can explain how this occurred. You can even use your arm raised selfie as a reference. Looking forward to your answer. - the hunter's wife

the hunter's wife from Oak Park  

Posted: August 20th, 2014 3:21 PM

"According to witnesses in the Brown shooting, his hands were raised before he was shot." Now this is the most amazing thing...according to the pathologist who performed the second autopsy, shots passed through Michael Brown's arm and entered his chest and lungs. " Some of the shots to his arm went through the limb and entered his chest and lungs, according to Dr. Baden" http://online.wsj.com/articles/crowds-thin-in-ferguson-as-midnight-curfew-starts-1408253833 (cont.)

In Glen Ellyn formerly from OP  

Posted: August 20th, 2014 3:20 PM

M. Brown's family and the Ferguson protesters demand justice. JUSTICE - the administering of deserved punishment or reward. Vid. evidence shows M. Brown robbing the convenience store and intimidating the store clerk. Multiple witnesses corroborate that M. Brown attacked the officer in the squad car until the officer's gun goes off. Autopsy indicates marijuana in M. Brown's system.Illegal drug use, robbery, assault, attempted murder. Justice would be to charge Ferguson false witnesses riot costs.

Bill Simmons from Arlington  

Posted: August 20th, 2014 1:51 PM

On August 12, a few days after Brown was shot on (which is a horrible tragedy, A black policeman in Salt Lake City shot and killed a 20 year old unarmed white man. The policeman was listed as "other than white", you have to dig to find his race. Where is Sharpton? Why haven't you heard about it? Where's all the people that want justice for Dillon Taylor? Why is it that black people are the only people that can be victims? My blog: http://http://unpoliticallycorrecttexan.blogspot.com

John Butch Murtagh from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: August 20th, 2014 1:42 PM

I often wonder why it takes so long for the OP Police to release details on crimes faster than they do. Ferguson has clarified why. Get your act in order before talking to to the sharks in the press pool.

lincoln from buffalo  

Posted: August 20th, 2014 1:39 PM

No one black, white wants to see a unarmed person shot and killed.but to riot and damage your city is not the answer. .we deal with bad and mentally ill people all the time..this man could be a bad man with a gun and a badge or mentally ill and snapped ..who shoots some one down that many times...people need to think with their brain's and their heart's and stop listening to these small, weak minded so called leaders who love keeping all this hate alive. .


Posted: August 20th, 2014 11:41 AM

mose - I understand the truth is often inconvenient, but you might want to give it a shot on this one.

mose from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 9:36 PM

Strange that you seem set against hearing the evidence, Josh. Let's wait and see what the witnesses have to say. Perhaps the friend will offer testimony under oath that Michael Brown committed strong armed robbery would be much more convincing that your apparent willingness to accept a third party's version of the events. I wonder why you are so convinced that a crime took place but the store clerk chose not call the police about a theft and assault. No harm. No foul.


Posted: August 19th, 2014 7:25 PM

The answer to your question Terry is no. As long as young men of any color commit robberies, attempt to disarm police officers, punch them, and then charge at them of course. My guess is that if you just stop and do what you are asked to do then the chances of you getting yourself killed by a police officer go down by about 99.999999%. I'm just saying.

Uncommon Sense  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 5:39 PM

I have a theory that the major failure of the civil rights movement was that it was too successful. So successful that you have an entire segment of the black community that can't recognize that racist white people are no longer a factor in their lives. Not too mention the washed up throw backs to that era still agitating along with the liberal black studies depts, etc. This is why you get this pseudo intellectualism regarding racism that isn't rooted in any kind reality.

In Glen Ellyn formerly from OP  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 5:22 PM

For the record, I have been a 20something single wht in the middle of a blk mob, physically unharmed, and so I know circumstances do NOT dictate an inevitable outcome of brutal violence when being victimized. We have GOT to be honest with eachother, and we have got to be brave enough to keep our friends and family honest in their moments of weakness until the madness stops. Everyone has value and should be treated as valuable, except maybe sneaks, cheats, liars, and thieves. That'd be fair, no?

Josh from Oak Park  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 5:12 PM

@ Mose (for the final time): Brown's friend admitting to the fact + the video of Brown shoving the clerk = strong-arm robbery all day every day. Not sure what else you need. Your posts seem to have a semi-troll type of vibe and incredibly narrow minded. Have a nice day and good luck with whatever you're trying to do...

In Glen Ellyn formerly from OP  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 5:12 PM

The criminals and liars who stick together inherit the slum they create. The false witnesses, the bold liars, the thieves, the bullies ruin the lives and community they touch, and then they complain about not getting fair treatment. Terry, since you want to make this a racism issue- I contend that white driven American racism of the past has been replaced by black driven racism, perpetuating the perceived oppression by whitey.Be glad you don't see whitey riot when a blk mob attacks a single wht.

Mose from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 4:54 PM

Josh, you've escalated this incident to strong armed robberry. I have yet to hear that charge against Michael Brown leveled by the police chief. Lot's of innacurate reporting regarding the shooting. I wait for the facts before judging.

In Glen Ellyn formerly from OP  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 4:49 PM

http://www.ijreview.com/2014/08/168698-eyewitness-recalls-important-detail-background-video-mins-ferguson-shooting/ Above video includes an accidental witness account of Michael Brown going back toward the officer, discounting not only the forensically disproven initial witness LIES of Brown's being shot in the back, but also the LIES that he was shot while standing to surrender.The Brown family has repeatedly said BEFORE having evidence, justice is nothing short of Wilson's conviction. Madness.

Josh from Oak Park  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 4:47 PM

@ Mose: Check the link in my previous post. The gentleman who was with Brown when he was killed confirmed through his lawyer that he was present with Michael Brown when he committed the strong-arm robbery. This leaves no room open to interpretation.

Mose from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 4:43 PM

Josh, the store employee did not file a complaint with the police claiming that Michael Brown shoplifted or assualted him. The police department has not released an incident report or provided the tape of a 911 call made by the clerk. There is video from the store camera that appears to show him paying for the cigars. Lots of misinformation out there. Best to hold off judging the police officer or the victim until we have all the facts.

Uncommon Sense  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 4:37 PM

I told you these folks will twist logic and reality to try to support their narrative even in the face of irrefutable evidence. The next thing he will say is the video was staged or misinterpreted or because there is no sound, we didn't hear the clerk call Mike Brown the N word.

In Glen Ellyn formerly from OP  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 4:25 PM

http://fox2now.com/2014/08/15/raw-video-surveillance-video-believed-to-show-michael-brown-robbing-convenience-store/ The video of the convenient store robbery shows the same brazen arrogance of invincibility by mama Brown's "child" required to bum rush a cop with his gun drawn. The response of the guilty party's defenders is classic when presented with such history or evidence of character/behavior- deny loudly enough until the lie is believed. Liars don't want justice. That's a fact, Jack.

Josh from Oak Park  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 4:20 PM

@ Mose: Swing and a miss... http://www.ksdk.com/story/news/local/2014/08/15/attorney-dorian-johnson-michael-brown-robbery/14118769/ And just because it doesn't get reported, does not mean it didn't occur or was not a crime. What else ya got?

Mose from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 3:55 PM

Josh is misinformed. There is no evidence to support the claim that Michael Brown committed a crime or assaulted the clerk at the convienent store. It should be noted that the store employees did not notify police of any crime involving Brown. We still have not learned enough from the police department internal investigation to conclude that the officer was in fear of his life. A question that remains unanswered is why the body of Michael Brown remained on the street for hours after the incident

Real List  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 3:22 PM

@Ray-I understand, but what about a coalition of women? 100 women...standing in unison...taking their neighborhoods back block by block. Imagine the public backing they'd receive across the country. Day long protests in front of each gang leader house chanting "Don't shoot!" They would be media darlings...true 21st century activists and change enablers. Public officials would give them the proper backup or risk severe backlash. Men would join in unison.

Ray Simpson from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 2:58 PM

@ Real - I have been on juries with black women from the projects who would love to confront the gang bangers. Their problem is retribution - you get dead! Inner city thugs feel nothing for anyone who challenges their actions - to include police!

Real List  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 2:36 PM

I would love to see this activism and enthusiasm for justice applied to the known gang members and drug dealers in each neighborhood. Imagine hundreds of AAs marching up to the crack houses, the local gang hangouts, and say GET...OUT! That would have a far more immediate impact of quality of life for everyone. Selective tolerance of injustice isn't a long-term solution.

Winter Skye from Chicago, Illinois  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 2:07 PM

Terry, when the young lady 16 and honor student) from the South Side who was shot dead over the weekend by mistake was made public, was your reaction the same? The sad truth is that no matter how dramatic these events, they are relatively rare compared to the daily grinding violence of Black male-on Black male violence. Now I see the meme spread around about INTRA-racial violence (same-race homicides) beings the norm in America. They are suggesting that it's equal with Whites and so why is the media focusing on Blacks killing Blacks? For one, statistics lump Hispanics in the same category as White, which is utterly deceptive! I really have to question this practice. I suspect that they are trying to paper over the glaring racial/ethnic disparity of gang involvement and crime in general by people of color. In any case, I think the larger troubling piece in this case is that there are young people out there who do what they feel like doing and seem to have no sense of boundaries (not taking what doesn't belong to them, not walking in the middle of the road and obstructing traffic). They find out the hard way that they are required to cooperate and it's too bad they were not given such instruction earlier on in life. You are not honestly engaging this issue, in my opinion, and it does a disservice to the very people who need to read it. Your title plays into Blacks in America as perrenial victims and that is such a disempowering way to go through life. Stop waiting for other people to be decent! You might wait a lifetime! U do U!

Uncommon Sense  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 2:02 PM

Ray, also notice how they use language like executed, gunned down, unarmed, murdered, etc to try to make it seem as if it is clear that Mike Brown was wrongly shot. The bias in the media is really telling. Just like with Trayvon, there will be egg on a lot of people's faces.


Posted: August 19th, 2014 1:58 PM

One of the shots entered from the top of Brown's head. So was Brown rushing the officer while he (the officer) was standing on a ladder? The police need to do their job, but shooting should be a last resort and even then they should shoot to stop, not kill. I've not heard any reports of the officer calling out that Brown should stop or he would shoot. I thought police were supposed to be trained to avoid over-reacting.

Uncommon Sense  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 1:57 PM

Ray, it is all about the narrative they are trying to spin. It is supposed to keep you from realizing this guy was huge, so they keep referring to him as a kid / child / teenager. I'd love to see some of these folks stand on the offensive line at an OPRF football game and see how much of a "kid" an 18 year old who is 300lbs and 6'4 really is.

Josh from Oak Park  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 1:50 PM

Re: the protesters, I'd say they are no longer peaceful when Molotov Cocktails are thrown, shots are fired at enforcement and looting occurs. Granted its a small percentage of them doing these things, but these are severe acts that require immediate counter-measure, regardless of how few perpetrators are committing them. In this case, you make sure everyone disperses.

Josh from Oak Park  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 1:48 PM

It is interesting to see other's takes on this matter. Forget the fact that this young man committed a crime and assaulted the store owner in the process a tad bit earlier. If reports coming to light are true that Brown was charging the officer, and he was in fear of a 6'4", 300 lb man threatening his life, then that is resistance. Why do people have no respect for the law? If a peace officer asks you to freeze, get out of the street, etc, you say thank you sir, may I have another and comply.

Ray Simpson from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 1:47 PM

When does a 300 pound male cease being a child and assumes the responsibilities of adulthood? The child in question probably out weighs the majority of the police department. Had it been a white female officer would the story be the same?

Uncommon Sense  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 1:40 PM

6huskies, they weren't "jaywalking". They were walking in the middle of the street to the point of obstructing traffic flow. Imagine someone walking down the middle of the Ridgeland. Even Oak Park cops would be like WTF? It appears that the officer let them go, but then heard the be on look out call for a suspect that fit MB's description. This is likely why MB's friend said the officer backed up. This also fits what other witnesses have said.


Posted: August 19th, 2014 1:33 PM

John Q, I am absolutely emotional but not uninformed. It was you that indicated stopping Michael Brown for jaywalking was all fine and dandy. I merely pointed out the implications of that. Either you arrest everyone you see or you choose to apply the law unequally. Discretion is the code word for unequal enforcement. That "discretion" results in more black arrests for the same offenses, more prosecutions, and harsher punishment for black males.

Uncommon Sense  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 1:25 PM

The utter hypocrisy and selective outrage demonstrate how messed up the community is at large. Simple mob rule with no ability to think rationally. A large segment is so invested in a white racist boogeyman being responsible for every single misfortune in the black community that they can't even believe what their own eyes would tell them under normal circumstances. It is so much easier to fool someone than to convince them they have been fooled.


Posted: August 19th, 2014 1:21 PM

Everybody knows that teenagers do stupid things. Research has even shown that the portion of the brain responsible for judgment is not fully developed in teens. It does appear that Brown did some things he shouldn't have. But let's be honest - so have plenty of kids in our community, including plenty of white kids. Holding kids responsible is one thing. Killing them is another. And police parading in riot gear isn't helping. Sadly the problem is much larger than this one death.

Uncommon Sense  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 1:21 PM

It is almost comical watching the usual race pimps and brainwashed black folks and liberals trying to twist logic and reason to fit a narrative that is quickly falling apart before their very eyes. At some point, you have to really question their sanity. The sad thing is that this case along with the others in the past continue to erode the credibility of legitimate claims of racism.


Posted: August 19th, 2014 1:00 PM

Excellent read, Terry. What's going on in Ferguson is horrible. Especially the poor handling of the situation by local officials. Darren Wilson will be indicted and arrested, but then there's the arrests of journalists to deal with, the heavy-handed police response, the need for more black police officers. This has been a wakeup call for everybody about some changes we need to make across the nation. It's not just Ferguson.

John Q  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 12:54 PM

Clear evidence that 6huskies is emotional on an issue but uninformed: "You can't argue for stopping Michael Brown for jaywalking unless you stop everyone for jaywalking." Is this the same for rural roads with little traffic and urban roads with heavy traffic? Is this the same for other local violations i.e. riding bikes on the sidewalk, dogs without leashes, no bike light at night? What about state violations like no light over your license plate or dangling air fresheners from your rearview?

OP Transplant  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 12:53 PM

My criticism of Mr. Dean regards his skills as a journalist. Why ignore the countless young black men who have been shot within miles of his office, then jump on this story in Ferguson, MO? The answer, of course, is that this story fits in to his existing world view. When you wait for a story that matches what you already think, I'm not sure that's good journalism.

John Q  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 12:45 PM

6huskies, no one is sidestepping your your questions. My dad taught me how to act with police officers. Shut my mouth, use respect and courtesy and if there is a problem deal with it later through the supervisor or courts. Yes I will teach my son the same thing. Your 2nd question was for Ray. According to you police should not use discretion and if they stop your granny speeding while coming home from church they should give her a ticket. You're not ready for this debate dude.

John Q  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 12:36 PM

http://www.redstate.com/diary/quill67/2014/08/18/unarmed-white-man-shot-dallas-police-august-11th/ Wow. An unarmed white man killed by police days after Michael Brown. Footage captures the white guy doing the same thing the police in Ferguson are saying Brown was accused of doing...charging at the officer.


Posted: August 19th, 2014 12:31 PM

6huskies: enough with the jaywalking, caps lock or no caps lock. Turns out Wilson is a pretty darn good cop, as you know he managed to stop an individual that just assaulted someone while committing a robbery. And you might want to take a look at the link posted by Uncommon Sense, as it looks like our little 300 pound angel attacked the cop.

John Q  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 12:31 PM

Ray Simpson: The lack of center mass shots and broad shot group are also indicators of adrenaline overload and marksmanship. They don't prove anything about the officer's intentions when firing. Furthermore, just as in the military, there is no use of "non-lethal" shooting strategies. When he fired that first shot more than likely he was hoping for center mass. BTW I've been known to enjoy The Riverwalk, The Hacienda, and The Alamo in between medical studies as well.


Posted: August 19th, 2014 12:24 PM

I don't show a wide lack of knowledge on the issue. You can't argue for stopping Michael Brown for jaywalking unless you stop everyone for jaywalking. Uneven enforcement of the law skewed toward stopping young black men is not equal protection. It is close to stop and frisk. Stop and frisk in practice means stopping people with brown skin. It's a pattern of harassment and attempt to control. Just like stopping someone for jaywalking. Nice sidestepping of the questions, though.

John Q  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 12:23 PM

...on the street and then just move on. What the heck kind of police force is that? No one wants the cops, the appointed protectors of their communities who are supposed to safeguard us from rape, robbeyr and murder to get beat up and in the street and just go home. How cowardly and how unbecoming of a sworn guardian of the community. Did it ever occur to you that a NFL sized teenager who just robbed a convenience store might be aggressive when confronted by police shortly after?

John Q  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 12:19 PM

Terry, Terry, Terry smh...you're saying what appears to be the case despite autopsy results saying it is not ruled out that Brown was running towards the officer. You've made up your mind that this cop just shot a guy because he whooped his @$$. Well that sounds great when you exchange the police for regular citizens who fight and call it a day. An arrest still has to made after he "whipped your butt." The cops does not get to "move on." I'd love to see how you respect police and get "whipped"..

John Q  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 12:14 PM

6huskies, that's where the hypocrisy comes out. I KNOW the names of black men killed by black men. I don't know one man personally, white or black, who was killed by the police. Perhaps your lack of understanding about the law is what is most telling. Being unarmed has no bearing on the use of deadly force. Your perpetuating a threat and the ability to fulfill it is all you need. Have you heard the phone recording where the witness says Brown was running at the officer while & after being shot?

John Q  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 12:09 PM

I'm actually pleasantly surprised at most of the responses here.But I'm also surprised with Dean's unusual jump to conclusions. 6 Huskies shows the wide lack of knowledge on this issue. You can't say he was stopped for a violation of local law and then say he had no business being stopped. It's not even close to stop and frisk. Stop and frisk begins with suspicion of criminal activity. The fact he was in the street jaywalking is probable cause. How about don't resist orders and fight police?


Posted: August 19th, 2014 12:03 PM

Ray, with all due respect the issue here isn't black on black crime. It is police on black crime. Anything else is just misdirection. What would you hope to prove or disprove by your comparison? Perhaps a more telling statistic is unarmed black men killed by police compared to unarmed white men killed by police. Maybe it's white men stopped for jaywalking vs black men stopped for jaywalking. And the "bad luck" shot was certainly worse luck for the unarmed black teenager than the while officer.

OP Transplant  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 12:02 PM

In my last sentence, "you" was meant to say "young". Damn autocorrect.

OP Transplant  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 12:00 PM

Mr. Dean's editorial unfortunately perpetuates the increasingly creaky narrative of black victimization. I don't recall Mr. Dean expressing his outrage whenever one of hundreds of young black Chicagoans is murdered, but he'll reach all the way to Missouri to lecture us if the shooter is white. Obviously, whatever Michael Brown may or may not have been guilty of, he did not deserve to die in the street. But neither do the countless you black men who die right here.

Uncommon Sense  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 12:00 PM

@Ebony, my hunch is starting to come true. http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/08/breaking-report-po-darren-wilson-suffered-orbital-blowout-fracture-to-eye-socket-during-encounter-with-mike-brown/


Posted: August 19th, 2014 11:55 AM

Michael Brown was stopped for JAYWALKING. He had no business being stopped. It's the Ferguson equivalent of stop and frisk. Maintain the power structure, make sure the young man knows his place and who is in charge. Keep your mouth shut and take it. Don't make trouble for us even though we made trouble for you. We can do what we want to you when we want. That's a hell of a message to expect generation to accept. Play the game and MAYBE nothing happens. Do you accept that for your son?

Ray Simpson from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 11:51 AM

I was a combat medic in the army years ago and while not trained in forensics we did study gun shot wounds. I look at those autopsy drawings and my read is that the shooter was not shooting to kill. There are no center of mass shots but, rather, several arm and shoulder hits. The cop was likely experiencing adrenaline overload and that fatal shot was just bad luck. It seems logical that a police officer who had seven years of spotless service would have shown signs of racism rather than dedication to his community. I would like to see the percentages of black men killed by other black men compared to black men killed by white police officers. That statistic seems to be embarrassing to the black community so it isn't mentioned. This small city in Missouri is poorly equipped to handle a incident that has such national furor. How would oak Park react - - better - maybe - who knows?


Posted: August 19th, 2014 11:48 AM

Uncommon Sense - If pictures show Wilson was indeed assaulted I would not expect to see much coverage in the media. The truth certainly doesn't fit the narrative being pushed by so many with an agenda on this incident.

Uncommon Sense  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 11:41 AM

OPT, yes the outrage is selective (and hypocritical) which is why I'm fed up with these perpetual victims. I'd love for Terry to tell us exactly how many black men are shot by white cops. Compare that to the weekly carnage here in Chicago perpetrated by other black men. A black life only has value to these folks when it is taken by a white person.

In Glen Ellyn formerly from OP  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 11:40 AM

One of these days we'll all come to the realization that ignoring the facts, denying the facts, and insisting on playing the victim perpetuates resentment and lack of sympathy for the occasional truth. Hamas does this. Oh, you thought I meant this group in Ferguson, MO. In both cases, enormous funds are spent to protect the peaceful, law abiding folk from the destructive WILL of some neighbors. We're such a smart bunch, ain't we?

OP Hipster from OP  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 11:33 AM

No worries. ISIS is on the scene. Peace and Justice sure to follow. http://youngcons.com/huge-sign-behind-cnns-jake-tapper-in-ferguson-about-isis-is-unbelievable/

OP Transplant  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 11:05 AM

Information about the events is still scarce. In general, though, cops don't fight people. They use whatever level of force is necessary to maintain control of a situation. This can include deadly force. Anyone who wants to fight an police officer is likely to get shot. For anyone who is truly concerned about the premature deaths of young black men, their anger would be better directed at other young black men. I'm finding the black community selective in its outrage.

Uncommon Sense  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 10:46 AM

Anyone want to put up some cash that when the photos are released of the officer, Darren Wilson, it will show he was assaulted? The entire narrative is falling apart, just like with Trayvon, Tawanna Brawley, Duke LAX, etc. The fatal wound was on the top of Brown's head which indicates he was likely charging the policeman.

In Glen Ellyn formerly from OP  

Posted: August 19th, 2014 10:43 AM

"then any cop has a right to defend himself, including using force, even if that force is lethal. But that just doesn't appear to be the case here. You don't shoot and kill the person who just whipped your butt in a fist fight. Just lick your wounds and move on." Very poor, ignorant, and sadly contradictory statement. A) corroborated by witnesses, the officer's gun discharged WITHIN the squad car during a struggle with a violent reported perp. I could stop there. I should stop there.


Posted: August 19th, 2014 9:41 AM

Damn...well, it might end when people take responsibility for their actions. Have you seen the video of Brown attacking the store clerk? Not at all hard to believe he went after the cop after seeing this type of behavior. Oh, and "peaceful" protests? Molotov cocktails, shooting, burning stores, looting, etc. Ridiculous. The cops should be arresting a lot more of those criminals, rather than letting them destroy businesses.

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