Safety from madmen with guns

Tuesday, August 14th, 2012 10:00 PM

With regard to the terrible tragedies of madmen with guns [Maximum freedom, minimal responsibility, Ken Trainor, Viewpoints, Aug. 1], I would offer some pragmatic thoughts:

1) These murderous persons attack only where they know all people will definitely be unarmed.

2) As concealed-carry licensing continues to grow in 49 states (not in Illinois), violent crime is down about 50 percent in the past 25 years.

3) Ownership of firearms by law-abiding citizens has quadrupled during that same time period. (Remember when we were told increased guns in our society meant crime would explode and we would all fear each other?)

4) Over 10,000,000 citizens now are potentially legally armed and many hundreds of thousands of citizens have not been injured because criminals fear such citizens.

5) Having "off limit" places where law-abiding citizens cannot potentially carry concealed are the places where the murderers will continue to strike.

6) Psychologists have said for years it is not the weapon but the twisted will to do the murderous rampage that is the guiding factor.

7) Concealed-carry licensees have an extremely minor record of firearm abuse (your armed neighbor will not shoot you).

8) Like it or not, the evidence points to "More Guns, Less Crime," the title of John R. Lott's book, now in its 3rd edition, which in exhaustive analysis makes it clear: criminals, including mass murderers, are really nasty bullies.

9) To stop bullies, the rule remains the same: the bully must fear the honest, stand-tall person — no other way. Ask a police officer who knows crime usually occurs when he/she is not around and no one at the crime scene stands tall.

Conclusion: Mr. John Lott is right. What should we do about it? If you cannot see the only viable answer, go back and read these nine points again. And try to really use your brain to follow Dr. Lott's simple thesis: Intimidate the bully — don't let him intimidate you.

David Steig
Oak Park

Reader Comments

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Ray Simpson from Oak Park Facebook Verified

Posted: August 23rd, 2012 11:14 AM

Frank - the readers here will assume those of us who advocate smaller government will nod our heads in agreement with your rant. Wrong - we are not heartless dolts who want to cut everything. The sick humor you have injected into this conversation only kills reason.

Frank Furillo

Posted: August 22nd, 2012 3:16 PM

If we just cut all transfers to the poor, cut Medicaid to zero, and let hospitals refuse treatment (thus letting them die) we wouldn't need guns, and would only need taxes for killing Arabs trying to take our oil. It would mean longer waits at fast food places, which would suck. Letting the poor die would set a good example and encourage them to become small business owners (the only real Americans) to avoid dying on the street.

OP Citizen from Oak Park

Posted: August 21st, 2012 8:33 PM

OP Resident #545-- I see good old Steve Forbes Forbes is still pushing that idea. Rick Perry tried it, as did 999 Cain, and look where it got them. I wish you all the best in your simplification efforts but I think your main obstacles are corporations which benefit from complexity and the ensuing loopholes, as well as the entire wealth protection industry. Do you really think Mitt's going to repatriate his assets and fold his shell corporations so he can pay 28%?

OP Resident # 545 from Oak Park

Posted: August 21st, 2012 8:01 PM

OP Citizen: it's easy to suspect it was LBJ's intent to make black Americans dependant upon govt & the Dem party, but since I'm not a cynic I assume it was an unintended result. Also, I'm fine with a flat tax for all Americans (3 rates, 28% max Fed tax) making over say $ 40K, & a simple low rate for corps. No deductions/No corp subsidies for anything. Tax returns done on a postcard. a 2/3 majority to raise them again. Eliminate some Fed depts, reduce & repurpose others. How's that for starters?

Ray Simpson from Oak Park Facebook Verified

Posted: August 21st, 2012 5:46 PM

OP - most of the cowboys at the range don't own their guns but rather rent-a-cannon. The favorite character seems to be OBL. I guess Obama pulled the rug out from under that market.

OP Citizen from Oak Park

Posted: August 21st, 2012 4:03 PM

Ray, You seem to be saying that most of your fellow gun owners can't hit the side of a barn at a target range, which suggests to me that in a panic situation they would probably be even less accurate. Not to mention the fact that most of them seem to be living out sick fantasies of killing public figures (let me guess-- Obama as the Joker?) Why not let the gang that can't shoot straight play with video games, rather than real guns?

OP Citizen from Oak Park

Posted: August 21st, 2012 3:51 PM

OP Resident #545 Actually, if you were a true conservative you would believe that the entitlement mentality was an intended, not unintended consequence of the Great Society. As per the comment below, everyone who got a check from the government was then supposed to become a Democrat for life. Personally, I'll stop taking my government checks as soon as Exxon and Raytheon stop taking theirs and you stop taking tax breaks on your 401k, your dependents, mortgage interest, etc.

Ray Simpson from Oak Park Facebook Verified

Posted: August 21st, 2012 2:44 PM

#545 - I do own 1 long gun and 3 handguns and like you I would never consider walking the streets with any of them. Personal protection is not a consideration for me. If however my home were ever under siege I probably would be proactive. I also know that I would put the bullet where I intend. I have never fired a round at anything but bullseye paper targets and an occasional tin can. I am offended at public ranges when my fellow shooters are blasting away at recognizable public figures on printed targets. It is also troublesome that the safest place on the range is directly in front of the target, that is close enough to reach out and hit the target with your fist.

OP Resident #545 from Oak Park

Posted: August 21st, 2012 2:08 PM

OP Citizen: I don't now & never will own a gun. I do support my law-abiding neighbors right to do so. I sleep well w/windows open. I walk all over OP without fear, but with a cellphone. I grew up here & remain here for many reasons, proximity to Chicago being one. I try to educate my left-leaning friends with love, logic, & facts. If don't succeed, they remain my friends. My sense is that you'll stay hidden in your bunker. Peace to you, I'm going back to work to keep your govt check coming.

OP Resident # 545 from Oak Park

Posted: August 21st, 2012 1:53 PM

Yes, Paul. The unintended consequences of the Great Society included the weakening of families due to dependency on government programs; the emergence of an "entitlement mentality" that taxpayer funded transfers from the govt were as legitimate as a source of income as earnings from a private-sector job; the entrapment of those on welfare in isolated & crime-infested public housing projects; & the deteriorating of educational standards in public schools, especially in inner city areas

Q from Oak Park

Posted: August 21st, 2012 1:35 PM

Huh?, the gun owner should not be charged for the discharge. The gun fell to the floor and fired leaving him with a bullet in his ass. The theater is responsible for not providing flooring that would be soft enough to prevent guns dropping from peoples pants from discharging. If it did discharge while he was adjusting his ass in his seat, then that is a very common problem that people with cell phones experience. It's call ass dialing. The NRA will be instructing how to prevent ass firing.

Jason

Posted: August 21st, 2012 1:08 PM

I would think when someone thinks they need guns because they think people will break into their homes is a sign of paranoia. So they should not pass the mental evaluation and should be denied a gun.

OP Citizen from Oak Park

Posted: August 21st, 2012 12:50 PM

Right-- have a gun to help you sleep better at night. Better yet, stay at home caressing your beloved weapon all day, lock your windows and doors. If you venture out, you might run into those thugs or gang bangers-- they're everywhere. Even better, move away from the city because it's full of nothing but LBJ-loving liberal criminal defenders who encourage minority dependency. Also, be sure to put an alarm on your car, a leash on your kid, and a chastity belt on your wife.

Huh?

Posted: August 21st, 2012 12:46 PM

Does anyone know if this responsible gun owner is a member of the NRA?http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/08/15/police-moviegoer-accidentally-shoots-himself-in-the-rear/?hpt=hp_t2

Paul Ellenbogen from Oak Park

Posted: August 21st, 2012 12:35 PM

Are you really blaming LBJ for all of our problems? What about Woodrow Wilson and the League of Nations? How about Lincoln and all his loose talk about equality? Better yet, let's go back to the real problem: Thomas Jefferson, with all his liberal chatter about personal freedom, atheism and education for everyone. Plus, we never should have given women the vote-- look how they've messed up everything in the past 100 years. By the way, if you have to say you're intelligent...

Q from Oak Park

Posted: August 21st, 2012 12:23 PM

Ray Simpson, stay out of areas that have drug dealers and thugs waiting to rob you. If you notice suspicious activities in your area, call Police. If you don't call Police, they will over run the area making an unsafe area. If you are in your home with doors and windows locked, and someone breaks in, they chances are they won't be carrying a gun. I'm not sure what the real concerns are for people requiring the right to carry firearms, but if you need one, then you should have one.

OP Resident # 545 from Oak Park

Posted: August 21st, 2012 12:22 PM

I meant OP Citizen of course. I think much better than I type.

OP Resident # 545 from Oak Park

Posted: August 21st, 2012 12:20 PM

OP Resident, Mr Simpson is too intelligent & too much of a gentleman to get down in your left wing gutter. I'm intelligent also, but I'm happy to call you out on your emotional, unthinking rant. You're the classic lefty,unable to admit that liberal policies starting w/LBJ are the cause of gun & violence issues in today's urban areas. Democrats hoarded blacks into projects in exchange for votes, destroyed the black family, & created generations of dependency. Congratulations, moron. Proud?

Q from Oak Park

Posted: August 21st, 2012 12:14 PM

Brian Slowiak, you know how to shoot from many different positions, you can hit your target and you know when and when not to shoot. You have extensive training in firearms, which gives you the ability to use your weapon to the maximum of it's ability. It would be beneficial for others to receive a basic combat course, and a course on gun safety and the law pertaining to firearms. From my observation when you were in the field you presented a high level of self confidence.

Ray Simpson from Oak park Facebook Verified

Posted: August 21st, 2012 11:26 AM

OP Citizen - I have been a member of the NRA for ten years and have participated in shooting competition they sponsor. Your characterization of this group is just ignorant of the facts. Close your eyes, cover your ears and humm real loud and the problems of the world will go away. If that fails just pull out the liberal talking points and blame number one on the list. Some of us enjoy the shooting sports and are offended when you try to force your ideology upon us. We don't deny you the right to believe the way you do. Give us the same consideration and quit the childish attempts at humor.

OP Citizen from Oak Park

Posted: August 21st, 2012 10:36 AM

Thank you for regurgitating the Faux News/NRA talking points. Nine suggestions for you: 1) Lay off the androgel 2) Switch to decaf 3) Take your ED drugs 4) Use your kid's video game to get out your aggression 5) Get in touch with your feminine side 6) Recall that Jesus didn't pack heat 7) Join a militia where you can prance around with other manly macho men 8) Remember that bullies can buy guns too 9) To really intimidate people, whip out your "weapon," don't conceal it, i.e., "go commando"

Ray Simpson from Oak Park Facebook Verified

Posted: August 21st, 2012 9:11 AM

Frank - what the hell are you talking about? Our point is that we are not attacking the real problem, rather we are shifting blame to a group who are never a part of the problem. The NRA has never advocated gun violence and supports gun safety and responsible shooting skills. If you can convince a judge to give you access to a gun so you can wipe out your family, the both of you should be put away. If background checks can be done in 3 days - what does the additional 4 days do?

Frank furillo

Posted: August 21st, 2012 8:54 AM

OK Ray, let's decriminalize pot, taking that $ out of the hands of dealers, and into the gov't, where they can build jails for the "thugs." Think the NRA will go for that, or even the 7 day waiting period? I also go along with the Court allowing instant access to guns, though I think that is a largely bogus hypothetical. "Judge, I need a gun right away,my spouse is going to kill me!" "Ok, Here you go. Start shooting."

Brian Slowiak from Oak Park

Posted: August 21st, 2012 8:02 AM

To Q: why the assumption that every purchaser of a firearm has to go to self defense training class and learn how to handle a firearm?I accept Frank Furillos 7 day with the stated exemption.I also think the medical profession should have access to judges to obtain motions to prevent certain people from obtaining and keeping firearms. Judges sit twice a day for bond hearing,search warrant applications, and once on Saturday. There is a phone list for judges for late hour search warrants.

Ray Simpson from Oak park Facebook Verified

Posted: August 21st, 2012 7:12 AM

Q- "A YEAR??" How many tragedies can happen in a year? If family safety is the issue are you willing to stand up and be responsible for any crimes that happen while I wait? A 1 year probational FOID might work after which the 3 day wait is still the law. Citizens who jump through the legal hoops of gun ownership are not the problem - the thugs and gang bangers are! How about trying a frontal attack on the drug/thug problem, making home protection less of an issue. The breakdown of our family and legal justice system is the real problem and the need for armed defense is a result - not the cause of the problem. We seem to think that wearing a long sleeve shirt cures our broken arm - wrong again!!

Q from Oak Park

Posted: August 20th, 2012 8:52 PM

Brian Slowiak, I'm sure you know that the 3 day is the cooling off period so no one can walk in a buy a gun, so going to 7 day's may not be effective enough for the cooling off period. Probably a year would work better. I'm in agreement if passing out a heater if the person is in danger for their own safety from another if someone can teach them how to enhance their own security and being taught self defense with a gun.

Brian Slowiak from Oak Park

Posted: August 20th, 2012 7:39 PM

To Frank: Okay on the seven day limit, with the clause if a citizen, say a domestic battered man or woman, can go before a judge and have the judge waive the restriction for his/her safety.

William

Posted: August 20th, 2012 7:10 PM

The safety of my family comes first. If I need a gun then I get a gun. Ask as many homeowners as you would like, some may say they do some may say they don't. I am though unsure why you would question my situation. Would you like to spend a night in a tent in my front yard?

Skippy from Oak Park

Posted: August 20th, 2012 5:43 PM

William, I truly am sensitive to your plight in the Austin area. I must, however, question your quote "most homeowners have guns". If true, then they'd be lawbreakers since until recently most gun ownership was illegal within the city. A thorough survey might indicate a different reality, where most homeowners in Austin are, in fact, unarmed.

Frank Furillo

Posted: August 20th, 2012 2:29 PM

Any objection to a 7 day waiting period / background check to weed out the crazies? Sure, it wouldnt stop all crazies from getting guns, but if it stopped just one, would it not be worth it? Why not?

Op guy

Posted: August 19th, 2012 11:16 PM

William, thanks for a dose of reality.

William

Posted: August 19th, 2012 9:47 AM

In the Austin neighborhood most homeowners have guns because there is a very good chance that we will need them to protect our family and home. The criminals/bullies, who are my meighbors, know this fact and they still shoot at people every night. Our windows and walls have 3 bullet holes. So how does your logic work in my situation?

moon

Posted: August 15th, 2012 12:04 PM

Good article...now if only people could understand that concept. Too bad the news and even some reports on this site are sooo biased and aimed at scaring people that it clouds their reasoning.

Ray Simpson from Oak park Facebook Verified

Posted: August 14th, 2012 10:30 PM

nice job! Well said! Now hold onto your hat, the hand wringers will soon disagree with every point - without any facts to support their decent.

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