Whose ox is being gored now?

Opinion: Letters To The Editor

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OK, Wednesday Journal, where is the outrage? For eight years, your editorial and opinion editor's position was that George W. Bush was a horrible president, bad public servant and generally a despicable human being. This week we learn that two FOX news reporters and a producer were targeted by the Obama Justice Department in a criminal complaint. Had W43 taken the same action against you for your opinins as the Obama is taking against Rosen and LaGenesse for theirs, you would have been screaming about constitutional rights, free press and the people's right to know.

Do you agree that the actions against FOX News and the Associated Press was contrary to the America we have known all of our lives? I hope you profess the same outrage toward the Obama administration as you would had W43 treated you as unfairly. Or are we in the "whose ox is being gored" situation? Tread lightly, that scrutiny might result in people steaming your email open to see who you are conspiring against.

Ray Simpson

Oak Park

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Ray Simpson from Oak Park  

Posted: June 2nd, 2013 9:28 AM

My Oak Park Gramma made the best brazed Ox tail and my Indiana Gramma made the best tripe soup. I loved both until I discovered what was in them, but I still loved my gramma's!!

Speedway from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: June 1st, 2013 10:16 PM

To Joe from south oak park, in answer to oxtail (stew?) in Oak Park, the answer is no one but me, and I haven't for awhile. I usually go to Manny's in Chicago, just east of the UIC and Dan Ryan. They have it everyday as well as their great corned beef and pastrami sandwiches. If you haven't been there you should try it.

joe from south oak park  

Posted: June 1st, 2013 6:11 PM

Does anyone know of a place in Oak Park that makes a decent oxtail? preferably open on 'meatless' Monday

Nelson Taruc from Oak Park  

Posted: May 31st, 2013 10:21 PM

Ray, I agree it's curious and a little regretful that no one at WJ publicly expressed an opinion about the journalists being targeted by the Department of Justice, either to condone or condemn the actions. Maybe your letter and its comments will inspire a WJ writer to respond; better late than never, I suppose. Speaking as a journalist, the DOJ's actions may have been legally defensible but morally repugnant if you believe in a truly free, unfettered press.

Ray Simpson from Oak Park  

Posted: May 31st, 2013 7:18 PM

@FYi Let me get this straight - you claim a mid level commander in the field can deny a US Embassy, under attack, support? If that decision isn't made by the president - the whole system sucks! we are not talking about a couple of GI's trashing a local bar. coordinated military attack on US soil and the decision never gets to the president. if you believe that - how many bridges have you purchased today?

Ray Simpson from Oak Park  

Posted: May 31st, 2013 5:57 PM

@ Ida I watched that testimony as well. My time in the Army half a century ago taught me that military commanders never deny Americans assistance without some higher authority giving the order. The president is the one person with the authority to move armed forces within sovereign nations and we know that no such order was given. We also know that in the Somali pirates and OBL raids the proper and correct procedure was followed so Obama cannot claim that he didn't understand the authority. BTW my wife is a graduate of L'Anse High School.


Posted: May 31st, 2013 5:15 PM

@ Ray S...... "Sworn testimony is that there were two "stand down" orders issued that night. Orders of that magnitude are always issued " By authority of the President." Don't think so, Ray. ALL of the military's operations come from the authority of the president and Congress. But those orders come from military commanders. Stand Down orders are operational. Are you saying the President of the United States chimes in on every aspect of every military situation throughout the world? Really?

Ida Cooper from Upper Penisula  

Posted: May 31st, 2013 4:49 PM

Ray, Fox may be your source but it is not really a source. Regarding the so called Benghazi "whistle blowers" Hicks would be a source. Here's a bit of his testimony ?" REP. ROBIN KELLY: You said that four military personnel were told not to the board that plane and that this call came from Special Operations Command Africa. Is that right? HICKS: That's what I understand.

Tom from River Forest  

Posted: May 31st, 2013 3:58 PM

I am pretty sure that you didn't read the Pickering Report on Benghazi Ray, but you really should. But then you don't want the truth do you Ray.

Ray Simpson from Oak Park  

Posted: May 31st, 2013 3:20 PM

@ Tom - OK Sgt Schultz you see nothing you hear nothing and you know nothing. What do we know for sure? Sworn testimony is that there were two "stand down" orders issued that night. Orders of that magnitude are always issued " By authority of the President." If Obama didn't issue those orders he should find out who did and expose him to the American public. The talking points issue is a smoke screen that masks the more critical problem of 4 Americans killed without any effort to save them by their government. A failed attempt would have been sad - no attempt is criminal. If you are waiting to find out what happened - don't count on White House input since they are withholding the names of the survivors - -Why? The main stream media is starting to understand the full meaning of this event and are now asking some hard questions. Jay Carney has proven to be a bumbling oaf. Sad for a guy with years of solid news credentials.

Ray Simpson from Oak Park  

Posted: May 31st, 2013 2:47 PM

@Moop - OK who should we go to to get fair and impartial news? I would love to see who you consider to be a worthy source. BTW if you seek information from FOX you are going to the source with the top ratings with no one else even close - could there be a reason? My experience is that they separate news and opinion and neither side claims to be the other. Please post your list so we will know what you view as fair and balanced.

Tom from River Forest  

Posted: May 31st, 2013 11:58 AM

Ray, I can neither defend nor condemn the president for the right wing echo chamber scandals because I do not yet know the facts. Unlike you, I wait until the facts are in before I get either outraged or defensive (which in your case turns entirely on the political party of the president). We know nothing yet and so I will wait to gore my ox. Now I return to the case of poor Ms. Georgia Thompson, those facts are in and I am appropriately outraged...You not so much I guess.

Independent Voter  

Posted: May 31st, 2013 10:20 AM

It's these type of exchanges that remind me why i am an independent voter. I find it quite amusing that each side spends its energy on saying what is wrong with the other party instead of support for their own. Blind support by both parties is natural and effortless but the middle decides elections as they are at least willing to look at each candidate independent of their party affiliation.

MichaelO from Oak Park  

Posted: May 31st, 2013 7:24 AM

Ray, I think I see your problem. You wrote, "you... get in a hissy fit when we apply the same scrutiny". Here's what scrutiny means: a searching study, inquiry, or inspection. Parroting the inflammatory rhetoric you get from Fox is not scrutiny.


Posted: May 31st, 2013 7:22 AM

Did I miss something? What did Axelrod do? Or is "Axelrod" Fox's new "A" word (Acorn/Ayers/Alinsky)?

Mr. Borderman from Oak Park   

Posted: May 31st, 2013 2:23 AM

I love it when right wing men have hysterics in print. Emotional instability and daddy issues were the hallmarks of Bush's destructive Presidency, and his supporters seem to be just as unstable as he was.

John Butch Murtagh from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: May 30th, 2013 10:18 PM

Now, now Ray - calm down. You know damn well that I have not eviscerated President Bush.

Ray Simpson from Oak Park  

Posted: May 30th, 2013 10:09 PM

@ MOOB, JBM, Haptic and TFRF - Congratulations - you have made my point! All four of you cannot defend the actions of the president nor do you point out anything the 'my administration, administration' has done that the whole country can be proud of. Rather, you attack others, deflect blame and hope no one will notice. The IRS abuse is a big problem and whistle blowers will start to have attacks of conscience. This mess will eventually get tied back to the Chicago campaign group. Why was it OK for you four to eviscerate W43 for the last 12 years, yet get in a hissy fit when we apply the same scrutiny.

Tom from River forest  

Posted: May 30th, 2013 6:29 PM

Ray the reason at no one is outraged is because unlike you they are waiting for facts as opposed to GOP spin. Are you saying that a journalist is immune from an espionage charge? And as for Bush not deceiving us on the embassies, he was way to busy deceiving us about WMDs in Iraq.


Posted: May 30th, 2013 6:19 PM

Burden's on you Ray. Eight years of cheering on or ignoring the worst president in history only to be outraged by this kerfluffle and the made up Benghazi thing. Number of deaths in attacks on U.S. diplomatic posts under Bush: 60 or more. Number of times Ray wrote the Journal to complain about it: 0.

John Butch Murtagh from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: May 30th, 2013 6:01 PM

I think about eight people send you a reply on your letter to the editor. Hell of a turnout for re-run post!

Ray Simpson from Oak Park  

Posted: May 30th, 2013 5:47 PM

My original question goes unanswered! Why no outrage about what is happening now by Wednesday Journal staff and readers? The muddying the water with "Look what Bush did" has grown old and stale. The 50+ embassy deaths were tragic, but, I don't remember any attempt to deceive the American people abut what happened. The IRS issue stinks of Axelrod and the Chicago cabal that ran the campaign. I have no memory of W43 sending the IRS after anyone. Nixon tried and that was one of the proposed articles of impeachment. Please just give us reasonable explanations for the awful things we are seeing from the White House.Or perhaps you don't see them - try spending a few moments each day watching FOX.

Tom from River Forest  

Posted: May 30th, 2013 4:52 PM

Just as predictably Ray is also outraged by Benghazi but tell me Ray, why no outrage over the 10 embassy assaults from 2001 to 2008 that resulted in 54 deaths? Why is Benghazi sooooo different? But you keep looking for those scandals Ray if only to give you a reason to buy yet another gun.

Tom from River Forest  

Posted: May 30th, 2013 4:48 PM

How predictable that Ray "I watch Fox News 24/7" Simpson would pick up on the right wing echo chambers scandal wannabe de jour. Ray, if you want to be really incensed, look into the case, US v. Georgia Thompson. There you will find a woman who was prosecuted by a Rove appointee in Wisconsin simply to help the GOP win the state's governor seat. But I am pretty sure that that outrage didn't get covered by Fox News or Rush Limbaugh so you probably missed it.


Posted: May 30th, 2013 4:26 PM

So the subpoenas of certain journalist was in part due to outrage from the cons over CIA leaks. And now they're outraged over the JD trying to do something about them. Under a third Bush term, Ray would be cheering. Ray, you cheered (or slept through) eight years of this type of stuff. You have no credibility here. We do have it, because we were against this type of stuff then and we're against it now.

Ray Simpson from Oak Park  

Posted: May 30th, 2013 4:15 PM

@ MOOP- We have not heard the last of Benghazi. The worst case scenario would be charges of treason against POTUS. He was the only one with the authority to send armed troops across foreign borders and he refused to protect Americans in trouble. I cannot think of a single incident in our history where a president allowed political expediency to prevent him from exercising his constitutional duty. Talking points be damned why did the president order a stand down? Who are the survivors and why are they being silenced. They know something far worse than who jimmied the talking points. If Obama throws Hillary under the bus - Bill will get even. We must honor the memory of those 4 citizens who didn't have a chance and make up for the lies our government has laid on the families.

MichaelO from Oak Park  

Posted: May 30th, 2013 3:16 PM

Ray, how's the Benghazi scandal going? Did you know that if you remove the B,E,G and H from Benghazi you're left with nazi? Something to think about.

MichaelO from Oak Park  

Posted: May 30th, 2013 2:30 PM

Michele Bachman. I meant Michele not Barbara. Sorry.

OP Resident # 545 from Oak Park  

Posted: May 30th, 2013 2:03 PM

MichaelO, what exactly is your point? Bachman's decision is a completely separate event in all likelihood. You seem to be attempting to change the subject. Ray's questions to WJ are legitimate, and should be answered. Hopefully OP-ers who longed for "hope and change" can now admit to themselves that they were used & abused by the President, Axelrod, & the other minions. This admin has out-NIxoned Nixon. Oh, & Bush isn't responsible for those deaths. That blood is on the hand of radical Islamists

Ray Simpson from Oak Park   

Posted: May 30th, 2013 2:00 PM

@ MOOP - Nice try - the subject at hand is not what W43 did or didn't do nor is it what Obama did or didn't do. The point was the silence from the editorial and opinion staff of the Wednesday Journal in light of growing scandals. True journalists would allow the story to dictate the path. If it is the guy you propped up for four years who is proving the dishonesty and incompetence we predicted then silence is the best you can do. When you throw out opinions about thousands of dead innocents you better be able to support your claim.

MichaelO from Oak Park  

Posted: May 30th, 2013 1:23 PM

Ray, Barbara Bachman is not seeking a fifth term for congress. Do you think Obama got to her? Do you think it's part of the anti-Fox conspiracy? Why do you use words like "tread" ? PS. Bush is responsible for the deaths of tens of thousands of innocents.

Ray Simpson from Oak Park  

Posted: May 30th, 2013 8:52 AM

Correction - only Rosen was confirmed to be targeted in the criminal complaint. Our AG has lied under oath on this matter and should be held accountable. This whole matter has the stench of Axelrod "Chicago Way" politics. If you believe that the Obama White House was not deep into managing this whole affair you are not paying attention. Why was FOX targeted? Could it be that they are seeking the truth and getting dangerously close?

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