Red light cameras a revenue boon for River Forest

Accidents are down at Harlem and North

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By Deb Kadin

Contributing Reporter

The red light cameras at Harlem and North avenues continue to be a boon on two fronts for River Forest: a lower number of traffic accidents at that busy intersection and an increase in revenue as well, according to information from the River Forest Police Department.

Since January 2013 when the program became operational, some 16,284 violations were meted out to drivers who failed to completely stop before turning at the corner. Nearly 44,000 videos were reviewed by the vendor who handles the program for the department, Police Chief Gregory Weiss said.

The cameras have reportedly changed driving habits. Only eight accidents took place on Harlem Avenue in the block south of North Avenue, down from 25 in 2012. Drivers in the accidents did not stop abruptly because of the cameras, causing either rear-end collisions or right angle crashes, said Weiss after reviewing the reports. 

In all, the department tallied $482,556 in fines last year, Weiss noted.  

For those unfamiliar with the program, here's how it works:

Eastbound motorists can trigger the red-light camera on North Avenue when they make any moving violations while the light has turned red, such as running the light or failing to come to a complete stop before turning left or right onto Harlem. Because the light in question is on the southwest corner of that intersection, infractions fall under River Forest jurisdiction.

When the violation occurs, a 20-second snippet of video is shot, and the film goes to SafeSpeed, which runs the program for the village. The infractions are sent to the police department, where police review the footage and decide whether to approve or reject the infraction.

If approved, the citation goes to the driver, who can review the film online or at a kiosk on the second floor of village hall. Drivers can pay the $100 ticket or appeal the citation in person or in writing. In either case, a hearing officer will review the video and determine if the ticket was issued correctly or in error.

Drivers who still feel they are in the right can request a hearing in traffic court in Maybrook, which they must set up themselves.

Violators have 21 days to pay or the fine doubles. Unpaid fines are sent to a collections agency, Weiss said. Once the fine is paid, the moving violation will not appear on a person's driving record.

Cameras were to be in operation at Harlem Avenue and Lake Street as well, but as of yet no agreement has been reached with Cook County on the use of that agency's land (the northwest corner of that intersection), Weiss said.

Reader Comments

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Comment Policy

Bill Dwyer  

Posted: March 15th, 2014 12:01 PM

So, Tom from RF, is getting pulled over and ticketed by a cop for rolling through a red light on a turn also enslavement? Same result through different means. It's law enforcement. And for all those blathering about despots and ruling classes, last time I looked- and I have looked- the so called ruling class in River Forest are your neighbors. You all make it sound like your village board members all live up on the hill and the rest of you are dressed in rags and living in shot gun shacks.

Elle from River Forest  

Posted: March 14th, 2014 7:17 PM

I honestly feel that the Village of River Forest is turning against its citizens with all the fines and fees levied. I've read many articles like the following and believe that these lights are installed for only one reason: revenue. If you remember from history classes, when the governing classes reach the despot stage, it isn't long before the entire system fails. Just something to think about. http://business.time.com/2013/03/22/is-it-time-to-stop-green-lighting-red-light-cameras/

Tom from River Forest  

Posted: February 12th, 2014 2:18 PM

Yes Dirk, paying a $100 fine for not coming to a complete stop at a red light is the moral equivalent to being enslaved. And you're the freaking Frederick Douglass of traffic fines.

Dirk from Oak Park   

Posted: February 11th, 2014 10:34 PM

I freed a thousand slaves I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves. - Harriet Tubman

Tom from River Forest  

Posted: February 11th, 2014 4:08 PM

Dirk's posts here reminded me one of the better Onion articles entitled "Area Man Passionate Defender Of What He Imagines Constitution To Be." http://www.theonion.com/articles/area-man-passionate-defender-of-what-he-imagines-c,2849/

New Normal Condensed  

Posted: February 11th, 2014 3:36 PM

I donated $100 to River Forest Revenues thanks to the turn trap at North & Harlem. It was so close that a beat officer would never have written a ticket. Anyway, bye-bye c-note. I admit that the enforcement is effective. I now come to a complete stop and and pause long enough to honor the camera with a full middle finger salute before I put it in gear and proceed.

The New Normal  

Posted: February 11th, 2014 3:23 PM

I donated $100 to River Forest Revenues for turning on red at the North and Harlem cash cow. I have to admit that the on-line video showed that I did not stop comepletely, though had I rolled one more inch before putting the (manual transmission car) into firstit would have stopped. Really, it was that close and an officer in a car would never have written a ticket. Anyway, bye-bye c-note. I also must admit that the enforcement is effective. I now come to a complete stop and and pause long e

Bill Dwyer  

Posted: February 11th, 2014 10:03 AM

For anyone tempted to believe this clown, here's the research: In 2007, the District of Columbia Court of Appeals upheld a lower court ruling that the presumption of liability of the owners of vehicles issued citations does not violate due process rights. In 2009, the 7th US Circuit Court of Appeals in Chicago held that issuing citations to vehicle owners (or lessees) is constitutional. Red light camera tickets are civil matters. Red light tickets written by a police can be a criminal matter.

Dirk from Oak Park   

Posted: February 10th, 2014 8:18 PM

Running a red light is not a crime. It is a corporate statute (rule) that only applies to those persons that fall under the jurisdiction of the corporation. The State of Illinois is a corporation. River Forest is a corporation. This is the information that TPTB and their lap dogs (bill) do not want people to know. Because if you know than you may not want to be part of their little club that has been set up to make sure that you fail and TPTB wind up with the 400 k of the people's $.

Bill D  

Posted: February 10th, 2014 7:53 PM

I'll get my ears scratched by the PTB if you promise you'll get back on your meds, Dirk.

Dirk from Oak Park   

Posted: February 10th, 2014 7:45 PM

Sovereignty is a state. "You've renounced nothing" ???.... Well then I guess that settles it according to lil Billy boy only one way out of here. Apparently this government is just like the mob. LOL. Now run along little lap dog and go get your ears scratched by your masters for being a good boy. ;)

Bill D  

Posted: February 10th, 2014 8:32 AM

Fancy yourself a Constitutional scholar, dontcha Dirk? "The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States," doesn't mean you can run red lights. You've renounced nothing. Read the rest of the text: "If a crime is committed in one state and the perpetrator flees to another state, he will be extradited to and tried in the state in which the crime was committed." In other words, there are laws, and consequences for violating those laws.

Dirk from Oak Park   

Posted: February 10th, 2014 7:06 AM

You have to love corporations that need their government gun and threat of imprisonment to get anyone to participate. I don't know what is worse them or their water boys. You know who you are;)

Dirk from Oak Park   

Posted: February 10th, 2014 6:59 AM

That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.- D of I

Dirk from Oak Park   

Posted: February 10th, 2014 6:57 AM

If you too are tired of the corruption, waste, fraud, abuse and outright theft (400k plus) that these corporate officers all around us are engaged in and no longer view these criminals as honorable to simply withdraw consent as it is your right.

Dirk from Oak Park   

Posted: February 10th, 2014 6:39 AM

"Unless you want to renounce your US citizenship" - already done! :) I have been operating as a Free Inhabitant on the land of my birth for about the last 3 election cycles. Now go look up The Articles of The Confederation and read what it says about Free Inhabitants and their right to travel free.....End of lesson!

Bil Dwyer  

Posted: February 9th, 2014 5:53 PM

"I personally did not vote away my represent ion (sic) to anyone of these officials and never once granted them jursdiction over my individual being." Read the US and Illinois constitutions, Dirk. Unless you want to renounce your US citizenship, yeah, you did. It's a representative democracy, not direct. And governments have a right to regulate traffic on the public ways we pay them to build and maintain. You keep arguing against that fact and I'll keep correcting you. You can handle it, right?

Dirk from Oak Park  

Posted: February 9th, 2014 3:30 PM

If the majority of "the people" do not vote is it really a government "of the people, by the people, for the people"?.....or is it a just a small group of people asserting power over those whom have given no consent? Things to ponder. Enjoy the weekend billy D!

Dirk from Oak Park   

Posted: February 9th, 2014 3:18 PM

I am saying that the corporation (State of IL, Cook County, River Forest etc...) protects the corporations profits first and foremost. The fact that it is a municipal corporation does not make it anymore Nobel. Unfortunately in this traffic light "violation" instance they are clearly using government force to shake down the people to the tune of over 400k. I personally did not vote away my represention toanyone of these officials and never once granted them jursdiction over my individual being

Bill Dwyer  

Posted: February 9th, 2014 1:49 PM

So basically, Dirk, you're saying your private corporation isn't fair, so of course, a municipal corporation controlled by people elected by voters can't be either. I have no problem believing something you run is likely unfair and injudicious. But I witness fairness in municipal corporations all the time, just as I see too much unfairness in some municipalities. You should be more concerned with how unfair your corporation is- since you seem to have a direct say in it. That "in your kitchen"?

Dirk from Oak Park   

Posted: February 9th, 2014 1:41 PM

I have a corporate policy within my corporation that if you freely speak you get fined $100. Anyone want to grant my corporation consent and come work for us thereby give up their 1st amendment right? Of course if the violation is questioned you can always go to the corporate board and have the corporate administrative officer hear your case. ;)$$$$

Dirk from Oak Park  

Posted: February 9th, 2014 1:33 PM

"The Right of the Citizen to travel upon the public highways and to transport his property thereon, either by horse drawn carriage or by automobile, is not a mere privilege which a city can prohibit or permit at will, but a common Right which he has under the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." Thompson vs. Smith, 154 SE 579

Dirk from Oak Park   

Posted: February 9th, 2014 1:14 PM

Moving violations are not law. Moving violations are statues. Statues (red light tickets) are corporate rules put in place by corporations for those individuals who fall under the jursdiction of those corporations (i.g. State of IL, Cook county, River Forest) to follow. BTW Government corporations only get their power from the consent of the governed. If you voted to have corporate officials govern you than you have therby given them your consent. It's known as Admiralty Law.

Dirk from Oak Ark   

Posted: February 9th, 2014 1:01 PM

Again..... "Complete freedom of the highways is so old and well established a blessing that we have forgotten the days of the Robber Barons and toll roads, and yet, under an act like this, arbitrarily administered, the highways may be completely monopolized, if, through lack of interest, the people submit, then they may look to see the most sacred of their liberties taken from them one by one, by more or less rapid encroachment." Robertson vs. Department of Public Works, 180 Wash 133, 147.

Dirk from Oak Park  

Posted: February 9th, 2014 12:57 PM

Best I can tell you are a lap dog for the establishment (municipal corporations) who treat the peoples right to travel freely as a fire hydrant. I knew exactly who you were when I posted the comment. If I am getting in your kitchen good. Maybe you will start questioning where the right to travel freely and unmolested on the land of our birth went before the rest of our rights are consumed by TPTB. I am only getting a bit rough with you because I think you can handle it BTW. ;).

Dirk from Oak Park   

Posted: February 9th, 2014 11:01 AM

The faith that stands on authority is not faith.- Ralph Waldo Emerson It is servitude!

Bill Dwyer  

Posted: February 9th, 2014 10:51 AM

You're asking ME about questioning authority, Dirk? Do an internet search with my name, pal. The fact is, you're criticisms are groundless. You're just wrong. The issue of red light camera technology was questioned at length, for over two years in River Forest. Criticized, assessed, and the concerns incorporated into the new village ordinance. I'm one of those "lazy reporters" who sat in meetings until 11:30 p.m. taking notes on the debate while go-getters like you sat home watching television.

Dirk from Oak Park   

Posted: February 9th, 2014 10:37 AM

"Question authority" ever heard of it Bill D? It's a good idea to do on occasion. Clears the mind!

Dirk from Oak Park   

Posted: February 9th, 2014 10:31 AM

The only reason these corporations get away with their theft is because of intellectually lazy reporters who would rather go with the flow as opposed to challenging the corrupt system. Fortunately we now have the Internet. It has taken the place of the "4th branch of government" LOL mainly because journalist were too busy kissing the a-- of the establishment in order to see what was going on around them. Pathetic really!

Dirk from Oak Park   

Posted: February 9th, 2014 10:19 AM

Bill D. If you are going to attempt to impress people you need to stop focusing on spelling (lame diversion) and focus on my point. That point being that cops and traffic courts (corporate courts using subcontracted administrative law officers under the color of "law") ignore the right of the people to travel freely in order to rob them. If there is no victim there is no crime. Only corporate statues set in place by corporations (State of Illinois, Cook County, River Forest) are "violated".

Bill Dwyer  

Posted: February 8th, 2014 11:26 AM

Dirk? If you expect to impress people with your use of legal terms, you need to spell them correctly. It's Corpus Delicti, i.e., the foundation or material substance of a crime. Traffic violations occur on state owned thoroughfares, and have been passing muster in our courts since 1908. It is established law, so your blather about red light camera tickets having no grounds is itself groundless. And Brian, you're a former cop. You know it doesn't require a judge to OK issuing a traffic citation.

Dirk from Oak Park   

Posted: February 8th, 2014 9:50 AM

It is good to know that those municipal bond holders interest are being secured at the expense of "The People". We wouldn't want those banksters to not be able to purchase their vacation properties. ;)

Dirk from Oak Park   

Posted: February 8th, 2014 9:40 AM

"A universal principle as old as the law is that a proceedings of a court without jurisdiction are a nullity and its judgment therein without effect either on person or property." Norwood v. Renfield, 34 C 329; Ex parte Giambonini, 49 P. 732. "There is no discretion to ignore that lack of jurisdiction." Joyce v. US, 474 F2d 215. "The burden shifts to the court to prove jurisdiction." Rosemond v. Lambert, 469 F2d 416.

Dirk from Oak Park  

Posted: February 8th, 2014 9:31 AM

Apparently only Bill D is allowed to goof on people's names as my last post was dumped. So here we go again....It makes no difference whether the thief is using their right hand to dip into my pocket or their left hand. The fact of the matter is we "The People" are still being robbed. Corpus Dilicti anyone? Didn't think so! No victim no crime! Cops and judges are just revenue agents for the municipal corporations. Their jurisdiction should be questioned.

Dirk from Oak Park  

Posted: February 8th, 2014 9:13 AM

Well here is the thingy Bill Dingy....it makes no difference whether or not the thief uses their right hand to reach into our pockets or their left hand. The fact of the matter is we are still being robbed.

Brian Slowak from Oak Park  

Posted: February 8th, 2014 8:46 AM

Conflict of interest? Why does a River Forest Police Officer or River Forest civilian employee watch the tapes? Why not an impartial judge?A retired judge maybe?

Brian Slowiak from Oak Park  

Posted: February 8th, 2014 8:27 AM

Why is payng the fine the only option?How come there is no public service work,supervision, or traffic school? after all, safety is the issue, right?

Headline  

Posted: February 8th, 2014 7:33 AM

Where are the accident stats? How many accidents were averted

OP Resident #746  

Posted: February 8th, 2014 7:07 AM

I wonder if they would still put these cameras up if the Village received none of the revenue? The village could donate their take to a fund benefitting families who have lost members to traffic accidents and then we would understand that the cameras are truly for public safety. As it stands I view the cameras as nothing more than a thinly veiled taxation machine.

Bill D  

Posted: February 7th, 2014 10:52 PM

Oh darn, Durk. Now you gone and done it. You can question my intellect all you wanna, but don' be goin' and questioning my lack of "intelect," now. Here's the thing, Durk, the municipal "Corporation of River Forest" is run by a board that's partially re-elected every two years and fully re-elected every four. So all those poor, clueless and unempowered folk in the village being victimized by the tyranny you think I'm trying to distract from, why, they can just vote those tyrannical rascals out.

Dirk from Oak park   

Posted: February 7th, 2014 9:30 PM

These traffic violation lights are put in place by private corporations (look it up) so that public corporations (River Forest) can reap a percentage of the profits off the backs of the people (slaves). The real law is No victim.... no crime! Where is the corpus dilicti in these "violations"?

Dirk from Oak park   

Posted: February 7th, 2014 9:14 PM

"Complete freedom of the highways is so old and well established a blessing that we have forgotten the days of the Robber Barons and toll roads, and yet, under an act like this, arbitrarily administered, the highways may be completely monopolized, if, through lack of interest, the people submit, then they may look to see the most sacred of their liberties taken from them one by one, by more or less rapid encroachment." Robertson vs. Department of Public Works, 180 Wash 133, 147.

Dirk from Oak park   

Posted: February 7th, 2014 9:09 PM

Through out history tyrants have used unjust laws to enslave the people and to deprive them of their unalienable rights. (The right to travel free and unmolested) Individuals and government corporations that violate the rights of others (fine them) are criminals and elected officials (corporate officers) that violate the rights of the people need to be treated like the criminals that they are.

Dirk from Oak Park   

Posted: February 7th, 2014 8:42 PM

Damn...."Bill D". Do you care to address my point that the Corporation of River Forest is only a money grubbing corporation attempting to rake in revenue at the expense of the people?.....or does your lack of intelect only allow you throw up straw men arguements in an effort to divert attention away from that fact.

Governor Moneybags  

Posted: February 7th, 2014 5:12 PM

When I am elected Governor, I will put a speeding camera on every corner, and they will be calibrated to catch ALL speeders or any kind! 10 over the speed limit! FINED!! 5 over the speed limit! FINED! 1 over the speed limit! OH YEAH YOU BET YOUR BUTTONS.....FINED!!! If you're not breaking the law, you have nothing to worry about!!!

Bill D  

Posted: February 7th, 2014 5:03 PM

Damn, "Dirk." That's quite an image you offer up. Never quite thought of the River Forest village board as opium. Have you notified the police department?

Done from Oak Park  

Posted: February 7th, 2014 4:54 PM

Dan - stop at the f*$@ing light. Is that so difficult?

Dirk from Oak Park   

Posted: February 7th, 2014 4:13 PM

River Forest is a corporation attempting to raise revenue just like every other corporation. The only difference is they sell fear and confiscate the people's money under the guise of public safety. If there is no victim there should be no crime / fine. The corporation of River Forest only gets away with it because people worship government. Government has become the new religion for the masses.

Information  

Posted: February 7th, 2014 3:05 PM

Mr. Hefner, state law prohibits a lower fine. Which I read was discussed at a board meeting. Otherwise why not $200.00? No one likes getting caught. But just follow the rules of the road, and if you truly are falsely accused, contest it. Quit making false assertions without knowing facts. I received a citation before. I watched the video, I paid, because I was grown up enough to admit I was wrong. I gurantee River Forest won't catch me making the same mistake twice.

Dan Hefner from Oak Park  

Posted: February 7th, 2014 9:43 AM

A $25.00 fine would "send the message". The $100.00 fine is obscene and nothing more than a money machine for the Village of River Forest. It is really sad in this terrible economic environment that the Village is so punitive to drivers. (Consider all the other taxes we pay , vehicle sticker, gas tax license plates) A windfall for River Forest but a kick in the groin for drivers.

Bill D  

Posted: February 7th, 2014 9:21 AM

For the umpteenth time you've formed an opinion without bothering with any facts, "Q." In FACT, in River Forest, a sworn or civilian member of the police department reviews the video PRIOR to a citation being mailed. If you'd bothered to read news accounts, you'd know that. You'd also know that there was great concern over people being cited without justification, therefore trustees insisted on a careful assessment beforehand. That does not constitute, as you so ridiculously put it, "failure."

Oh No You Didn't  

Posted: February 7th, 2014 9:00 AM

@ Q from Oak Park, oh no you didn't just call out Bill D and accuse him of thinking odd? Bill D., please respond. It looks like Q can't comprehend what he is reading, or doesnt care about facts if they don't fit his puzzled life.

Admiral Ackbar from Coral Depths City, Mon Calamari  

Posted: February 6th, 2014 9:16 PM

It's a trap.

Q from Oak Park  

Posted: February 6th, 2014 7:46 PM

Bill D. Here is why it is odd thinking to you. The traffic light takes the picture of the license plate. It searching the owner of the vehicle. It sends out a violation. It is all automatic. If you don't think you had a violation, and are willing to take the time to contest it, a person now will review it, and make the decision. Ask yourself how many people would be employed to review each violation. Now you understand why you had an odd way of thinking about it.

Caught on Camera from Oak Park  

Posted: February 6th, 2014 6:17 PM

I received a red light notice in the mail. It wasn't from Redflex, so I don't think RF is using that company. I called about the violation w/the number provided on the notice, they told me I could see the video myself. They also told me the website to view the video is on the notice and it doesn't go against my driving record. It was on the back of the paper clear as day. There were pictures on the notice of my car and after saw the video, I paid the fine. Didn't like it but I was caught.

Bill D  

Posted: February 6th, 2014 1:15 PM

"16,284 violations sent out with 44 thousand videos being taken means the traffic light has a failure rate of over 50 percent." Failure rate? It's called due process, where an officer reviews the tape to determine in a citable violation actually occurred, Apparently in some people's minds, taking adequate steps to assure that a process is fair, and finding no cause to write $100 tickets in a majority of cases constitutes a "failure." Very odd thinking.

Winston Smith from Oak Park  

Posted: February 6th, 2014 12:12 PM

Once the facial recognition technology gets accurate enough, I look forward to the jaywalking cameras.

Doug Kittredge from Oak Park   

Posted: February 6th, 2014 11:16 AM

I got caught by that camera, turning south on Harlem on red. Interestingly, the ticket says nothing about video being available. I did the "letter to contest the ticket" option, and the ticket was overturned. I don't know who did the original review before the ticket was sent to me, but it must not have been as complete as the review done after i contested it.

christi from oak park  

Posted: February 6th, 2014 8:53 AM

Not east bound on North blvd West bound, No right turn on red and no Left hand turn into South Bound Harlem traffic. That is on the O.P. side of Harlem. between tracks, and Fridays.

The Brad from OP  

Posted: February 5th, 2014 10:23 PM

Re: the left turn on westbound North Blvd at Harlem, there is a sign that says no left turn, but it is faded. Nobody sees it, and thus everyday we see people making that left turn. How this hasn't been addressed or enforced is beyond us. How that faded sign has not been replaced or moved/updated is comical. Just bad policing. Perhaps OP and RF can't decide who's jurisdiction...

joe from south oak park  

Posted: February 5th, 2014 10:22 PM

another issue with this is that redflex has some issues with paying bribes to local governments to get cameras... http://my.chicagotribune.com/#story/ct-redflex-red-light-bribery-20140123/

Anne  

Posted: February 5th, 2014 7:15 PM

The only people who get all mad about the cameras are the ones who don't follow the rules of the road (remember those??). When you get to a stoplight, you stop BEHIND THE WHITE LINE, wait at least 5 seconds and then proceed (if a turn is allowed)

Q from Oak Park  

Posted: February 5th, 2014 4:13 PM

16,284 violations sent out with 44 thousand videos being taken means the traffic light has a failure rate of over 50 percent. Towns should not be proud to use equipment that has a 50 percent failure rate.

to interesting  

Posted: February 5th, 2014 3:24 PM

It wouldn't save us any tax money. Just another way of them jacking us for more $

Interesting from Oak Park  

Posted: February 5th, 2014 2:59 PM

I drive home east on North ave. at Harlem and then turn right everyday. Since the camera went up I stop, hesitate and then go. I never received a ticket. I would be interested to know how the videos look, are they being nit picky or are they valid citations? It looks like only about 35 percent are approved so the numbers though still high, don't appear to be over the top. As far as the revenue, oak park could use it as well, to save taxpayers money.

muntz  

Posted: February 5th, 2014 2:20 PM

@christi @done - Actually, a red light camera at that intersection would be a $$$ cow for RIVER FOREST, not OP. SB Harlem and EB Central (North Blvd) cameras would be be in RF. NB Harlem and WB North Blvd traffic (the OP side) are both allowed to turn on red.

Done from Oak Park  

Posted: February 5th, 2014 2:09 PM

And I have sat at that light going east on North waiting to turn right onto Harlem after a complete stop and have had cars behind me honking at me to turn, but I'll be damned if I'm going to turn and end up having to defend myself on a ticket for turning right on red.

christi from oak park  

Posted: February 5th, 2014 1:38 PM

A red light camera should be at the Harlem and North Blvd intersection by TGI Fridays the amount of people who turn left or right on red would be a $$$ cow for Oak Park

Genius from Oak Park  

Posted: February 5th, 2014 12:43 PM

Hey, why not just have red light and speeding cameras on every street and corner? You know, in the name of safety. The extra revenue will be nice too. While you're at it, hire an army of jay-walking enforcers, who can write tickets for 500 bucks a pop? Why not?

Bill D  

Posted: February 5th, 2014 12:28 PM

Here we go with the over the top allusions. "Creeping communism"? Ever try to FOIA the Russian, Chinese or North Korean governments, OP Dad? The camera intersections are clearly marked, the entire process was publicly vetted over a 2-year process, and took another year to implement. That's communism? I got tagged for a hundred bucks last year in Chicago for entering an intersection too late on a yellow. I had only myself to blame. My advice? Obey the traffic laws and quit blaming government.

OPDad  

Posted: February 5th, 2014 12:16 PM

Creeping communism.

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