Why I support Mitt Romney

Opinion: Letters To The Editor

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With the first debate "in the can," I have had an opportunity to see both men side by side. That debate supports my opinion that Obama needs to be a one-termer. Obama appeared to be the school teacher who has been called on the carpet for teaching all of the wrong answers and unable to justify his actions. Romney, on the other hand, was the tough, competent, well prepared, businessman who defined the problem, and gave us his path to the solution. We saw leadership in Romney and self-serving condescension in Obama.

Romney is cool under pressure. Romney has a sense of humor. Romney knows that government has limited powers. Romney respects the constitution and understands its genius. Romney understands that small business is the engine that runs our economy. Taxing and regulations suppress growth and success. Romney will fulfill his promises without playing the blame game. Romney will take an honest, tough posture with foreign leaders. They will understand that help comes with a responsibility to support and assist our positions and policies. Romney has committed to support our military while reducing waste and theft. Bain Capitol has proved that lean and mean is far more effective than fat and bloated. Romney surrounds himself with tough competent people who understand that they report to the president but they work for the American people.

The events of the last four years have convinced me that a change of administration is important to our survival. New Black Panther voter intimidation, Fast and Furious, Libya tragedy are just the tip of an iceberg that represents the level of dishonesty and incompetence of our current administration. The recent debate proved to me that when Obama was faced with his failures he folded like a house of cards. We now see that the emperor has no clothes. Understanding that, Obama's campaign will most likely resort to attacking Romney's church, work history and any dirt they can drag up or falsely create. Obama will ask us to give him four more years, not because he has done a good job, but to avoid some made-up boogieman threat from Romney. Are we going to fall for more three-card-monte governance? I sure hope not!

Ray Simpson

Oak Park

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Ray Simpson from Oak Park  

Posted: October 21st, 2012 3:34 PM

@ Tom - I looked up the demographics for FOX MSNBC and CNN and the percentages are all similar. Granted FOX has an audience far greater than the others but the death watch percentages are the same. Consequently, all three are losing watchers at the same rate. Yes my 96 year old mother is a FOX junkie and I watch regularly. I find that I get upset with the liberal Democrats who seem rude and obnoxious most of the time. Kirsten Powers and Juan Williams have reasonable moments and who on earth could stay mad at Ms Powers for long? Want to see something funny? Watch Lou Dobbs reacting to fallacious DNC talking points - He is good!

rj  

Posted: October 21st, 2012 11:54 AM

Mr Middle - Center for American Progress was created and is being funded by George Soros - not John Podesta-he is Soros' front man. Soros prefers to work in the shadows and specializes in smoke and mirrors for the O administration. You're right, biased indeed.

rj  

Posted: October 21st, 2012 11:15 AM

Shut ins? Some of you have been shut out of basic info thanks to George Soros, O's shadow govt puppeteer.Billionaire holocaust turncoat controls propaganda narrative-NYT, NPR, WashPost, AP, NBC, ABC, MoveOn, Center for Am Prog. & more. Soros made millions destroying currencies throughout world. Unlike Europe, US leftists embrace him as he's destroying our currency & culture. Vote for O again & Soros' mission is accomplished. Some of you will applaud.

Watson from OP  

Posted: October 20th, 2012 12:18 PM

We don't need fancy studies to know that when companies profits drop, they tend to reduce the workforce. When corporate profits swell, they may or may not increase their workforce. So, since taxes come right off companies' (and people's) bottom lines, how is it that we think increasing taxes will solve the jobs issue we are currently facing? Bottom line: it won't. Complex economics are not needed here.

Mr. Middle  

Posted: October 20th, 2012 12:10 PM

revenue is reduced. However look at the following chart 1.1 or 1.2 and draw your own conclusion. http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/Historicals. Fact is that there is no real road map for the unique debt position we are in. Most reasoned thinking has a reform of tax policy with slightly higher revenue goals yet as much has a 4 point to GDP reduction in spending over 10 years. Your statement is misleading and incomplete guided by biased studies.

Mr. Middle  

Posted: October 20th, 2012 12:01 PM

@ Tom...The facts you state about tax cuts comes from a UMass-Amherst study in 2008. That study and an Economic Chair at that University are funded by The Center of American Progress created and funded by John Podesta. Point is that if you read "The Economist" or other serious Econ books you find routine issues with this think tank and its Liberal bias. In fact UMass-A teaches that the multiplier affect is not real. However your point is well taken about tax cuts not very effective when

Tom from River Forest  

Posted: October 20th, 2012 10:47 AM

Ray, the reason that Fox News is so popular is because of shut ins. If you look at the demo, its audiences is dying off at an increasing rate. As for your argument on taxes, once again it is fact free. The least productive fiscal action is tax cuts for the top marginal rates. The most effective is unemployment benefits.

Ray Simpson from Oak Park  

Posted: October 20th, 2012 8:24 AM

@Progressive - Romney has been in business long enough to KNOW that the Tax breaks get reinvested back into the company - to make it grow. A benefit is that the growth creates a need for labor (JOBS!) Tax monies sent to Washington is just GONE! Taxes grow nothing but the government.

Ray Simpson from Oak Park  

Posted: October 20th, 2012 8:16 AM

To all of you FOX Haters: Good news/Bad News announced last week, Rodger Ailes has signed a shinny new 4 year contract to run FOX news, business and television through 2016. His last contract was reported at more than 21 million and the recent ratings should get him more. Despite your best efforts and the power of the White House Ailes/FOX has dominated the cable news arena since Y2K. Could it be that the American people love their "fair and balanced" source. The other guys seem to throw out their conservative reporters and when they get to FOX they become stars. O'Rilley, Stossel, Dobbs, Williams, Varney and on and on. There must be a reason!

Progressive from Oak Park  

Posted: October 19th, 2012 10:04 AM

@ OPRFDad - does anyone know what the business owners might have actually said to the employees? How exactly would a Romney presidency benefit the companies and their employees? I can see that the owners will receive further tax breaks but what's in it for the employees?

OPRFDad  

Posted: October 19th, 2012 8:08 AM

@ Dylan, I am OPRFDad and not Dad from OP. He's just an apologist who is afraid to stand up for what is right. Now, I would be fine with companies not saying a word to their employees if unions were to not involve themselves in the political process. BUT, since that is not the case, it is only fair that people who own companies explain to their employees the consequences of voting for a particular candidate. And if the employees don't like that type of talk, they can always leave.

Mr. Middle  

Posted: October 19th, 2012 6:59 AM

@ Dylan. I am Dad from OPRF and not OPRF dad. He is just a fire starter. No company should involve themselves in the voting decisions of their employees. No political party should create horseplay with voting like your other piece points out. No G should influence a vote due to changing rules. No Union should influence the vote of a member. This Romney backer and a competitor of mine who sent a letter to employees pleading for them to vote Obama are both wrong. Pls get your dads straight

OPRFDad  

Posted: October 19th, 2012 6:19 AM

There's nothing wrong with an employer pointing out the consequences of a particular action. "If Obamacare remains, it will impact our hiring decisions. If Obama is president, Obamacare will remain." That's far different than the federal government BRIBING private government contractors not to lay people off until after the election.

Dylan  

Posted: October 18th, 2012 11:38 PM

OPRF Dad and other I was having the conversation about Pres. Obama and Lockheed. So what do you have to say about Romney pressing Businesses and Corporation owners to tell their employees to vote for him? http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2012/10/18/romney_s_nfib_call_gop_hopeful_tells_employers_to_tell_employees_who_to.html In my opinion that is worse than telling a company they do not have to worry about immediate layoffs.

OPRFDad  

Posted: October 17th, 2012 5:30 PM

OP Mom, are you in Romney's binder?

People First  

Posted: October 17th, 2012 5:09 PM

Thanks, OP Mom for taking time out of your busy day to post.

OP Mom from Oak Park  

Posted: October 17th, 2012 2:40 PM

Enough already. I couldn't even bring myself to read all these comments. You all have too much time on your hands.

Dad from OPRF not OPRF Dad  

Posted: October 17th, 2012 2:22 PM

@PF...I am not OPRF Dad and subscribe to none of his baiting to fight. I hope you understand the deep meaning Yuca has. Its a G program that was funded and deeply studied to come up with the best solution. After 30 years one Senator changes the whole thing. Is that not exactly the fear of Roe v Wade. The USA needs to have consistency and dependability in its G and it not be subject to political horseplay. Plus we paid for it already!

People First  

Posted: October 17th, 2012 2:20 PM

Dad from OPRF, we should appreciate the service provided to this country by your family. I also have relatives and friends who served in Iraq and Afghanistan. It was disappointing that Mitt Romney neglected to mention our troops during his acceptance speech. Don't know if it was simply an awful oversight or somehow edited out of the final draft. Regarding Iran, Romney's hawkishness is well-documented and his campaign co-chair recently announced support for military engagement with that nation.

People First  

Posted: October 17th, 2012 2:10 PM

My point was that Harry Reid was not the only saying, "No!" to Yuca. It certainly is an important issue that has to resolved.

People First  

Posted: October 17th, 2012 2:06 PM

There's more than one Dad posting, so you're going to have to define "attack" and be specific regarding Romney and yourself. I'll discuss the issues and offer an opinion on how the candidates differ on policy but will not accept any attempt to introduce lies and distortions as having any basis in fact. Leave that up to Fox News and off this forum.

OPRFDad  

Posted: October 17th, 2012 1:33 PM

You can always count on an Obama supporter to deflect and make an ad hominem attack. What has this guy done, again? I will now wait for a reply: (1) attacking Romney, (2) attacking me, and (3) providing some platitude about Obama, but not necessarily in that order. Romney: plan; Obama: implemented plan with no results and no plan to improve on his failure.

dad from OPRF not OPRF Dad  

Posted: October 17th, 2012 1:32 PM

The issue of Yuca goes to money. The Federal G has $27B on the line and is missing out on $1B in fees for its non-use. Use it and the debt goes away and the fees come in. You have to start somewhere

Dad from OPRF not OPRF Dad  

Posted: October 17th, 2012 1:30 PM

Northern Illinois is one of the biggest depository of Nuclear waste in the country. We specifically built this to rid the nation of this issue. It was built over the last 30 years and now its political on a bogus water table story by a Reed appointee. Right now you are in the most dangerous area in the country for N waste. We built Yuca with our electric bills then Reed said no. http://www.chicagotribune.com/features/chi-nuclear-waste-11-mar11,0,7895484.story.

Dad from OPRF not OPRF Dad  

Posted: October 17th, 2012 1:24 PM

@PF...My daughter is in the Army. I see nothing in Romney's plan that you speak of. There is a whisper of difference between Obama and Romney on Iran. Busch took us to a war we could have avoided and I disagreed with that. I have never been a guilt by association guy.

People First  

Posted: October 17th, 2012 1:21 PM

We're going all over the map, Dad. I cannot speak with much knowledge on the subject of Yuca mountain but do know that a significant majority of Nevada residents agree with Harry Reid and do not want the project to be built. I wouldn't either if they tried to store this lethal waste in our neighborhood. How about you?

People First  

Posted: October 17th, 2012 1:14 PM

Dad, I'm not a sports radio listener so I don't get the obscure reference. Are you forgetting that Mitt Romney seeks to add 2 trillion to the defense budget? He's gunning for another war in the Middle East. Strange talk from a draft dodger but he's surrounded himself with the same guys who lied us into that mess in Iraq. More of the same might be what you and Mitt want but we've shed enough blood on foreign soil and it's time to rebuild America.

Dad from OPRF not OPRF Dad  

Posted: October 17th, 2012 1:12 PM

PF I am just wondering your position on Yuca Mountain? Which has been shut down clearly to serve the political needs of Reed. The country built a $37B facility it cannot use because of one Senator and Nevada is a swing state? Why is that ok? No new nuclear plants are being built but I am sure we all see a need for safe storage?

Dad from OPRF not OPRF Dad  

Posted: October 17th, 2012 1:08 PM

Yes I have read Ryan's plan and he has been asked about his 2005 position on SS vouchers which is not in his 2011 budget. Those are the facts. The political gobleegock(?) of voting for bills and pulling out one thing to shape functions on both sides. I get it, you find facts to support your view. What I think would serve this country better is hold people accountable for their actions and realize both sides are full of S!

People First  

Posted: October 17th, 2012 1:04 PM

Hey, Bunk. Your attempt at a snappy one-liner was awfully limp. Leave the jokes to the professionals and you focus on being the best parrot Fox News has ever trained to speak. But not to think.

Dad from OPRF not OPRF Dad  

Posted: October 17th, 2012 1:02 PM

@PF...Boers and Bernstein are on the "The Score" sports radio. I am not opposed to any non-partisan group. No Lables? Look at downsizinggovernment.org and see for yourself what is partisan and reject it. I have been unable to locate any other studies on reducing spending. I am open to suggestions. Maybe you should look at reason.com or follow the work of David Walker. Point is that I am not limited in my view and earlier I point out specific cuts which include $100B in defense.

People First  

Posted: October 17th, 2012 12:58 PM

Dad, you really should read Paul Ryan's plan. Mitt Romney pledged to sign it into law. All the details and proposals about tax breaks for the wealthy and multi-national corporations, medicare vouchers and privatizing social security are contained within. Get back to me when you have the knowledge. I would happy to give you more information about Mitt Romney's history of lies,greed and debt. Fascinating and enlightening stuff.

People First  

Posted: October 17th, 2012 12:50 PM

Sorry, Dad. I'm not familiar with your reference to Boers and Bernstein. Are they on Fox? Can't say I've ever seen them. Regardless, there's no way that the "numbers" provided by Cato and Heritage are reliable. Extremist right wing think tanks certainly have a agenda to promote the Koch brothers views. Why so opposed to a non-partisan study? Interesting that you are so defensive of the Koch fortune being directly linked to Stalin. Profits over people might be cherished in your world. Not mine.

Dad from OPRF not OPRF Dad  

Posted: October 17th, 2012 12:46 PM

@PF..Please point to a program of Corporate Welfare Romney will institute? Medicare goes bankrupt in 10 years, what's the plan? The Fed G owes SS $5T and growing, how can we pay that back? Romeny backs no SS plan for vouchers and supports a gradual means test. Where are your facts from on SS vouchers? Rich people with Swiss bank accounts have made fine Presidents in the past(FDR?) why is it a problem now? I get it you have a team you believe in and stay loyal in face of all other reason.

TheBunk  

Posted: October 17th, 2012 12:46 PM

@ PeopleFirst, thanks, you made my point. Obama's about as effective a president as a condom made of cheese cloth.

Dad from OPRF not OPRF Dad  

Posted: October 17th, 2012 12:39 PM

the all of the Busch tax cuts go away, the sequester stays, the payroll tax cut expires and Obamacare is fully in. Oh..and we grow at 4.5%. Use whatever data you can find but show me how Obama plans to handle this problem? Obama is asking for only wealthy tax cuts to expire, to change the sequester and maybe keep the payroll tax cut. So the deficit is what then?? $800B? He cannot ask for a plan when he has none that works.

People First  

Posted: October 17th, 2012 12:37 PM

The interesting thing about Romney supporters is they have no interest in learning anything about the man that want to be our president. Doesn't trust the American people to see his tax returns. No problem. Outsources American jobs. No problem. Swiss bank accounts. No problem. Offshore tax shelters. No problem. Flip flops. No problem. Vouchers for Medicare and privatizing Social Security. No problem. More corporate welfare. No problem. Tax breaks for the rich. No problem. And that's the problem.

Dad from OPRF not OPRF Dad  

Posted: October 17th, 2012 12:30 PM

@PF...Not sure you listen to Boers and Bernstein...but who are you crappin? Koch brothers bad because of ties to 1930 Russia? So Kennedy's are not bad do to their shady associations in the 1930's? Come on, you logic leads us nowhere. Take the numbers from Cato/Heritage and make decisions. The numbers are right from the OMB and you can add your own decisions on weather the program is worthy or not. Then compare those to the chart from the WH that shows us with a $600B deficit even after

rj  

Posted: October 17th, 2012 12:29 PM

PF - I'll put the tea cup down when you realize you need to pick up that shovel. To be continued - some of us have to work to pay for all that govt - public assistance/extravagant public pensions/food stamps/cell phones/phony cronyism and more.

TheBunk  

Posted: October 17th, 2012 11:55 AM

The interesting thing about Obama and his supporters is the need to attack Romney. Shouldn't a sitting president be able to run on his record and handily beat any challenger? Yes, if he's done a good job. And there's Obama's problem.

People First  

Posted: October 17th, 2012 11:51 AM

Good news for Ray Simpson. No one took him up on his foolish bet that "the moderator would not select any Libya questions". And speaking of foolish, Romney got his hat handed to him by President Obama and Candy Crowley when he deliberately misstated the facts about the President's response following the tragedy in Benghazi. It was an act of terror and those responsible will be hunted down and punished. Romney's attempt to politicize the murderous attack is, as President Obama said, "offensive".

People First  

Posted: October 17th, 2012 11:30 AM

Stop giggling and put down your teeny tiny tea cup, rj. Reading is fundamental. My comment suggested that "a non-partisan group study ways to reduce government". You would prefer that extremist think tanks funded by the Koch brothers tackle the issue. No thanks! I want nothing to do with a family and corporation that has direct links to Joseph Stalin and the John Birch Society. Did you know that the brothers inherited their wealth from a father who amassed his fortune in Russia during the 1930s?

rj  

Posted: October 17th, 2012 11:07 AM

PF - That's hysterical! Of course you're only going to find GOP/Conservative groups trying to reduce government - Cato/Heritage. When are you going to learn, teacher, that democrats/leftists have no self interest in reducing government- it's their life blood. Cato/Heritage is not partisan because you've lost the war of ideas for less govt. You're so mired in all that BS you need one of those shovel ready jobs.

Ray Simpson from Oak Park  

Posted: October 17th, 2012 10:48 AM

NOTE TO ALL: I wrote this as my opinion! We have degenerated to gutter level personal attacks because many of you disagree with me. Fine, write your own damn opinion piece and we will all take you apart.

Ray Simpson from Oak Park  

Posted: October 17th, 2012 9:08 AM

Dylan - both are wrong!

Dylan  

Posted: October 16th, 2012 11:52 PM

Ray, OH MY! Threats on twitter! How about Shots being fired at Obama's organizing office? http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/decision2012/shot-fired-at-president-obamas-campaign-office-in-denver/2012/10/13/783f894a-3069-424e-a670-122f981264ac_video.html

Dad from Oprf not Oprf dad  

Posted: October 16th, 2012 7:58 PM

I tried. Those where the only sources to actually detail budget cuts. Kinda of sad

People First  

Posted: October 16th, 2012 7:57 PM

Ray Simpson is already pumping up the fear. He's "read" about threats against Romney. As is usually the case with Ray, his claims aren't sourced. Nothing hateful relating to information I've posted about Romney and as is usually the case with Ray, it's an unfounded attack against anyone daring to challenge him with facts. His advice is to check out Fox News. A news organization headed by Roger Ailes can't be considered a credible source. As is usually the case for just about anything Ray posts.

People First  

Posted: October 16th, 2012 7:43 PM

Dad, let's seek out a non-partisan group to study ways to reduce government. The Cato Institute has links to the Koch family and the Heritage Foundation is too closely associated with the GOP.

Ray Simpson from Oak Park  

Posted: October 16th, 2012 6:58 PM

@Unfortunately - I hope you are correct about Obama getting run out of town! I have read that there are tweet threats against Romney in the thousands which the Secret Service cannot persue. One consolation is his second is a competent young man who is fully capable of being president. Think of our national problems if Biden ever became president. People first spews Romney hate facts like God whispers in his ear. If any of that tripe were true I am sure the Obama people would be spending millions to spread the word. Perhaps PF should check in with FOX now and again to fact check his fact checking. I am amazed at how hate filled one person can be without showing signs of decomposition.

Unfortunately  

Posted: October 16th, 2012 5:13 PM

Dear Conservatives: As it looks increasingly like Obama may lose.....be prepared for the backlash of hatred and violence. I hope that I'm just nuts with my thoughts - because don't we know that liberals and their friends are all peaceniks - but it would be prudent to be aware of certain possibilities. Of course people like "PeopleFirst" have shown themselves to be unemotionally sane and calm, but...... And, yes, I pray that I'm mistakenly out of line, but.....

Dad from OPRF not OPRF Dad  

Posted: October 16th, 2012 5:06 PM

For anyone who is serious look at the first chart in the following link. Remember that this includes the expiration of the Busch Tax Cuts, the repeal of the payroll tax holiday, the sequester and full cost of Obamacare since those are current laws. Second charts compares to GDP which the spread of receipts to spending is scary since 2009. http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/Historicals

Dad from OPRF not OPRF Dad  

Posted: October 16th, 2012 4:56 PM

Google what to cut and you will see some choices put together by Cato and Heritage. They are not all worthy but here are some annual reductions; Farm Subsidies $30B, Defense $100B, Energy $18B, Vacant Property upkeep $12B, Privatize Amtrak $2B. How about this one...Open Yuca Mountain. Currently the G owes electric companies $7B in collect fees and states $27B. If it would open those debts go away and the G collects $1B a year. Thats $1.6 T over 10 years.

OPRFDad  

Posted: October 16th, 2012 4:44 PM

Here's something that needs to change - presidential use of the executive order to create law. That's both a Bush 43 and Obama issue. It is the job of Congress to create law, not that of the president. The federal government should also get its nose out of the education business at all levels. NCLB is a disaster. Anyone who lives in OP knows that. Federal funding of higher education is also creating a education bubble. Or is that too specific for you?

People First  

Posted: October 16th, 2012 4:28 PM

Who's the poster boy,Dad? President Obama has reduced the number of people employed by the federal government. States rights?Sounds like you agree with Paul Ryan that it's up to the states and not our judicial system to rule on reproductive rights. What else? Can you offer any particular federal spending that you want stopped? I trust I'm not wasting time trying to discuss these important issues and concerns with a Fox News parrot. Too many nest here. Surprise me!

People First  

Posted: October 16th, 2012 4:14 PM

You're gonna have to be specific.

OPRFDad  

Posted: October 16th, 2012 4:08 PM

Actually, the real issue is how to reduce the size of the federal government. The federal government has become monolithic. We all should challenge the assumption that federal government spending is necessary or legitimate. There's a reason that this is a confederation of states. Most action is intended to be taken at the state level. Step 1: get rid of the poster boy for humongous government. Step 2: vote for people who believe in states' rights.

first people from oak park  

Posted: October 16th, 2012 3:34 PM

People First, you are a liar. You'd be a great host on MSNBC, CNN or NPR. Better yet, you could moderate a presidential debate. Better yet, you could carry David Axelrod's man purse.

Dad from OPRF not OPRF Dad  

Posted: October 16th, 2012 3:09 PM

The real issue that presents the USA is not how much to tax, but how TO tax. I experience a tax code everyday that makes no sense. Why do we have businesses that taxes pass through to the individual? Because we tax dividends that have already been taxed creating a double tax. Why not tax economic income instead of capital returns? Tighten the definition of capital returns to be tied to actual ownership. We need a tax system to tax less at the rate and more at the activity.

People First  

Posted: October 16th, 2012 2:58 PM

get real, get in touch with rj. The location of the next meeting of the Fox News parrots has been moved. Don't worry. It will take place at a spot where you two will still be able to keep a lookout for Putin.

Dad from OPRF not OPRF Dad  

Posted: October 16th, 2012 2:54 PM

PF...Absolutely correct that Romney profited. I am sure you do not want to know how Kennedy's and Joe P got their money. Bootlegging? Union extortion? Joe P was the SEC chairman and profited from inside information. This is just senseless discussion to look at anyone's legal actions has a disqualification of office or some sort of determination of morals. Romney is an MBA/Lawyer from Harvard; this is what they do. BTW..Romney is open to changes to carried interest included in tax reform.

People First  

Posted: October 16th, 2012 2:46 PM

Well, Dad. Since you seem interested in the finances of people who run for public office. I'll direct you to the federal documents that show Romney secured a bailout for Bain Capital After handing out big bonuses to himself and pals. he demnded that the FDIC accept $14mil of the $30 mil Bain received and Romney threatened to loot the firm if he's deal was not accepted. For negoiating the settlement with his dad's close friend and head ofthe FDIC, Mitt charged $4mil for consulting services. Sweet

People First  

Posted: October 16th, 2012 2:36 PM

Ray Simpson charges ahead without a care or fact in the world. Now he wants to argue about Mitt's blind trust. Let's give him the knowledge. It's managed by a close pal. No problem. It's invested heavily in his son Tagg's hedge fund. Again, no problem. But hardly convincing evidence that Mitt's just a bystander. The fact is if Romney tells the IRS he has no active role in the trust's management, he does not qualify for the carried interest loophole that he so strongly wants to protect.

Dad from OPRF not OPRF Dad  

Posted: October 16th, 2012 1:56 PM

investment and you raise $100 but only capitalize $10. Confused? Typical treatment for all business so the first $90 back is considered return of capital. Now you put $1 in your IRA in which you direct purchase of GP shares. $1 effectively purchase $20. You now sell your company for $500. Your IRA gets $100 from $1. Mitt's $30K a year turns into $45M. This assumes you are very successful. This is the whole idea our G has created with deferred taxes not avoided.

Dad from OPRF not OPRF Dad  

Posted: October 16th, 2012 1:41 PM

Cont..so how do you get Mitt returns in your IRA? Based upon your post not sure you understand Limited/General Partner (LP or PG) structures which are very common from a Subway franchise to a hedge funds. LPs invest a certain amount of money and are "limited" in their return and their loss to the investment. GPs invest less but have all of the risk and a chance at greater returns through sweat equity. Typically a GP puts in 5% and gets 20-50% of all future returns. So now you form an

Dad from OPRF not OPRF Dad  

Posted: October 16th, 2012 1:33 PM

PF...if Mitt Romney's dealings sound familiar it may be the exact way that the Joe P Kennedy trust has been set up. The one that is entirely secret even with Teddy's disclosures under new rules of the Senate in 2006. The Kennedy fortune was worth $3Billion in today's dollars in 1957. I am not suggesting that the Kennedy's are not worthy of serving this country. What you are saying is Mitt Romney is unworthy due to "rich guy" legal activity. Just like the Kennedys.

get real  

Posted: October 16th, 2012 1:15 PM

Does your wife hold a made up $350,000 job? Did you "buy" your property from a convicted felon? Did you forsake your spiritual leader after his anti-american rants? did your good friend bomb the Pentagon? Did you vote"present" instead of taking a position as Senator? Evil has many faces; be careful of what god you follow.

Ray Simpson from Oak Park  

Posted: October 16th, 2012 1:12 PM

@People First - you move more BS than anyone here - almost all false. Romney has his entire investment portfolio in a blind trust over which he has no control. Everything is legal and above board, yet you snipe like a mother in law. Your hatred of FOX news is funny since Obama re election is running twice as many ads as Romney. They must know something!

People First  

Posted: October 16th, 2012 12:58 PM

Mitt Romney is not open to a badly new reform when it comes to providing tax deals to companies that outsource American jobs to labor markets where workers earns a few pennies an hour. Romney has always advocated profits over people. He won't even give an accurate number of full-time American jobs this phony job creator has created. President Obama is for ending tax breaks for outsourcing and offering tax incentives to companies that bring jobs back home. That's fighting for the middle class!

People First   

Posted: October 16th, 2012 12:38 PM

Do you keep your money in the Cayman Islands like Mitt? How about swiss bank accounts? Have you got a tax-free trust holding more than $100 million that Mitt admits he's paid not gift taxes on? Explain how you and Mitt are using a carried interest loophole for personal gain. Were you also able to stash $87 million in your IRA like Mitt while everyone else is limited to $30,000 annually? Share details on how you and Mitt have profited from equity swaps? Mitt's got $200mil in Luxembourg. You too?

Dad from OPRF Not OPRF Dad  

Posted: October 16th, 2012 12:13 PM

PF...In 1991 I was given a stock tip and took $1000 in my IRA to invest in Qualcomm. Today it is worth $116,000. Lucky and legal. I once also bought a house for $10K down and sold it a year latter at a $40K profit. Or 300 times investment. The only thing Mitt is correctly accused of is putting high-leveraged investments into his IRA. Carried interest? Romney is open to changing that within badly needed reform. Who better than someone who understands it. Then again he is evil rich guy?

People First  

Posted: October 16th, 2012 11:54 AM

Ray Simpson ignores the pleas from the families of the brave Americans who died in Lybia and continues to try to score political points regarding the tragedy in Benghazi. Is Ray aware or does he even care that ten citizens of that city also died while trying to come to the aid of our ambassador and his staff? There's an ongoing investigation that will provide us with more details. Ray and Romney won't wait for the facts and seem to prefer to dance about on the graves of all those who perished.

KR from Oak Park  

Posted: October 16th, 2012 11:47 AM

Hey Ray, there's a reason for secret ballot. No one cares that you're voting for a guy who refuses to back equal pay for women and equal rights for all citizens, gay or straight, minority or not. Just admit your agreeableness to sexism and homophobia, or your belief that money matters more than all other issues, and people will probably stop arguing with you. Go ahead and tell any female you love that their bodily rights are less important than the economy or military. Let us know what happens.

People First  

Posted: October 16th, 2012 11:41 AM

Stop arguing with the teacher, rj. Europe is a continent. An alliance between sovereign nations does not change that fact. And what you think you know about world economy and socialism wouldn't fill your teeny tiny tea cup. Vladimir Putin is not our comadre. Barack Obama is our president. So ends today's lesson. Now go clean your parrot cage.

People First  

Posted: October 16th, 2012 11:19 AM

Ray Simpson is following Romney's example and tossing out a bet. Sort of what Mitt tried with that $10,000 wager he failed to get Rick Perry to bite on. Of course, $10K is pocket change for a guy who's stashes his fortune in foreign banks and offshore tax shelters. I'll bet that Ray defends the scam Mitt's used so he could stash $87 million in his IRA when contributions for the rest of us are limited to $30,000 a year. Romney gamed the system with a rigged stock deal and gets off tax-free.

Ray Simpson from Oak Park  

Posted: October 16th, 2012 9:39 AM

Any bets that the debate moderator will not select any Libya questions tonight? Obama cannot defend his administrations actions and so media will give him a pass - I bet!

Ray Simpson from Oak Park  

Posted: October 16th, 2012 9:35 AM

OPRF Dad - how many Bears Quarterbacks have we lived through who pointed fingers everywhere else. We know leaders when we see them - gulp - gulp- gulp!

OPRFDad  

Posted: October 16th, 2012 9:32 AM

@ Ray. But Obama is a leader! A leader, mind you, who is incapable of accepting responsibility for anything. Great model of leadership.

Ray Simpson from Oak park  

Posted: October 16th, 2012 9:30 AM

Hillary is officially 'thrown under the bus' and she is assuming all responsibility for Libya. I bet Bill ain't happy! Lets see how active Bubba is in his support of Obama for the next 3 weeks. Party loyalty is nice but this is a blow to the Clinton's future plans and they are not forgiving people.

OPRFDad  

Posted: October 16th, 2012 8:32 AM

This country is built on the principles of personal responsibility, private property and personal freedom. A humongous government substituting its judgment for that of the people is, by definition, counter to every one of those principles. If you support big government, you hate America. The Democrats are the leaders by far in the big government movement.

Dad from OPRF  

Posted: October 16th, 2012 7:20 AM

For the record...I do not hate Obama and believe he will win. My wife's HC cost amount to $500K which is approximately 35 years if my current premium and 3 of my companies. Profits of HC insurance companies are not as bad as people think. I like the rebate check and college loan deals. Immigration is poorly handled. Card Check is the answer but Dems say no. HC law is a financial train-wreck for me. I like cub fans...LOL

Dad from OPRF  

Posted: October 16th, 2012 7:09 AM

There seems to be some confusion. I am Dad from OPRF and there is another person on this post who is OPRF Dad. I do not support the comments made by OPRF dad. In regards to Paul Ryan...what an ass. He should be called out for it and thought less of. Is that not the issue though? Too many people choose their team and support them no matter what their guy is doing. Its like everyone has become Hockey Moms and Dads; aggressively defend your child even if they are wrong.

rj  

Posted: October 16th, 2012 12:25 AM

PF - In your efforts to diminish my comment with your pettiness re European socialism - Prime ministers from ten Euro countries are attempting to form the United States of Europe to secure their economic positions against other faltering countries resulting in - "a Euro Nation." Your Comrade Putin has not been invited but your Comrade O is sure to watch his back.

Dylan  

Posted: October 15th, 2012 11:24 PM

OPRF, What do you think of this? Congressman Ryan using his position and taking advantage of a non-profit for political advantage without permission? AND the President of Mahoning County St Vincent De Paul Society said he would not have allowed it. Congressman Ryan seems to have no issue in using Private organizations for his own political benefit. Do you have an issue with that? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2218346/Paul-Ryan-accused-using-soup-kitchen-photo-op-permission.html

Dylan  

Posted: October 15th, 2012 11:20 PM

Also its funny that for the past 4 years we hear Republicans yelling about "Obama's spending." The President cannot spend a dime without Congressional approval, so the Republicans have just as much blame. But things the Pres. does have power over he has taken action. Like frozen salaries for the White House, ordered audits of Gov. contracts to find waste, More jobs were created in 2010 than in all Pres. Bush's 8 years.

Dylan  

Posted: October 15th, 2012 11:15 PM

DREAMers can now have a piece of mind they will not be deported, despite Republicans blocking any sort of Immigration Reform. Pres. Obama's message of fair taxation is still going. He helped save the auto industry. He is helping millions with the caps lifted on healthcare spending. He has appointed two decent Supreme Court Justices. He saved college students thousands by getting private lenders out as middle men for student loans.

Dylan Bellisle  

Posted: October 15th, 2012 11:09 PM

OPRF, Obama is going to win the re-election because he has done a damn good job for what he was given. Worst recession since the Depression, and unemployment went over 10% for only one month. Reagan couldn't do that. We have improved our diplomatic relationships with many nations across the world. We have already seen benefits from the Health Care law, those of us who have to buy private insurance - by getting reimbursement checks.

People First  

Posted: October 15th, 2012 10:55 PM

Now you're complaining, rj? You sure didn't object when Fox News was training you to parrot. Check your post "a stagnant, socialist nation like Europe". Your words! Now get back to keeping an eye on Putin from your backyard post.

People First  

Posted: October 15th, 2012 10:49 PM

People who support President Obama do not hate America, OPRF Dad. Where on earth did you get that idea. Limbaugh? Tell me why republicans hate women, people of color, senior citizens, poor and middle class families, students, disabled vets and needy children? All are targeted in the Romney/Ryan tax plan to receive less support and benefits while their precious multi-national corporations, defense contractors and the wealthiest Amercians are embraced, protected and rewarded with huge tax breaks.

People First  

Posted: October 15th, 2012 10:39 PM

You should know, OPRF Dad, that Obamacare is closer to the plan that was advocated by republicans prior to the teabaggger seizing control of the grand old party. Now it's likes of Bachmann, Akin and Palin calling the shots. You falsely claim that most Americans oppose this healthcare reform but that is not the case when people are asked about specific aspects of the act. Strange that considering your own experiences, you still support repeal and letting insurance companies profit off illness.

OPRFDad  

Posted: October 15th, 2012 9:28 PM

@PF, I'm against health reform because they could have addressed the pre-existing condition issue by amending HIPAA. It also was supposed to provide coverage to ALL Americsns YET 20-30 million people still aren't covered and it will result in taxes on the middle class. More Obama BS, which you blissfully ignore. Only a couple more months and he's gone. The better question is: why do the Obama supporters so hate America?

Dad from OPRF  

Posted: October 15th, 2012 7:09 PM

People first you also show how real discussion is hard in this USA. I have real life issues facing me that are not talking points. I am informed by my experiences. My comments lead you to believe I am against something so I must be evil instead of someone that for 15 years have been working through insurance issues and how to get care to my employees. It amazes me how many people are just not informed of real issues and real solutions.

Dad from OPRF  

Posted: October 15th, 2012 6:59 PM

specifics Romney is for each individual getting a tax deduction for HC costs not your company. The Wyden bill does a great job of explaining how this would work and finance itself. It covers pre-existing conditions. It failed due to AFSCME and the muscle it through behind it's defeat. Why? Imagine telling members that you no longer can negotiate HC. Bye union...and so went the best chance for a real solution.

Dad from OPRF  

Posted: October 15th, 2012 6:50 PM

@ People First. Being that I have a wife recovering from breast cancer as I type this I want everyone to have health insurance. Obamacare does not solve the problem and it creates more. My life's work is in jeopardy because of Obamacare its that simple. A real solution is the Wyden-Bennett bill or medicare for all with everyone paying for it. Getting insurance from your company is just plain stupid. All the talking points you mention really misses the point. If you want to talk

rj  

Posted: October 15th, 2012 6:45 PM

PF - Don't put words in my mouth! Never called Europe a nation - you did! We would become a socialist nation as Europe is socialist. Grow up!

People First  

Posted: October 15th, 2012 6:43 PM

Why is OPRF Dad so against healthcare reform? He's for people with pre-existing conditions being denied coverage, that it's acceptable to charge women more than men and supports a cap on benefits. He thinks it's better to repeal Obamacare and replace it with nothing. He's for allowing insurance company executives to haul in those multi-million dollar salaries and obscene bonuses and telling hospital emergency rooms to care for the uninsured while passing along those costs to the rest of us. Wow

People First  

Posted: October 15th, 2012 6:26 PM

Europe is not a nation,rj. Can you see Russia from your porch?

OPRFDad  

Posted: October 15th, 2012 4:47 PM

I could see if Obama were hitting it out of the park the responsibility would be on Romney supporters to argue for change. But Obama is laying the egg of all eggs as president. It's incumbent on those supporting Obama to make the case for re-election. And sorry, killing Bin Laden and a wildly unpopular and unnecessary health reform aren't sufficient. At this point, and given the lack of any noteworth achievements, the presumption has to be regime change.

rj  

Posted: October 15th, 2012 2:53 PM

Try it sometime -getting news from Fox- getting both sides of the argument to form your own conclusions may be too difficult for some. Might jar your sensibilities that there are indeed two sides to every issue. Believe what you want, vote for who you want. Bottom line for me is- do you want to restore & retain our constitutional republic or do you want to "transform" us further into a stagnant, socialist nation like Europe, like we are now, only worse with 4 more of O.

John Butch Murtagh from Oak Park, Illinois  

Posted: October 15th, 2012 2:26 PM

Getting all your news from Fox says a lot about objectivity.

God First, Others Second, I Am Third  

Posted: October 15th, 2012 2:02 PM

...............

People First  

Posted: October 15th, 2012 1:52 PM

Ray Simpson can't back it up, Dylan. He shuts down when the truth is revealed about Romney's record as Massachusetts governor, ceo of Bain Capital and head of the 2002 Winter games. Mitt left his state in a mess, destroyed American businesses, outsourced good-paying American jobs and spent our tax dollars awarding huge contracts to his pals and cronies. Of course, with Ray you dealing with a guy who viewed the Bush/Cheney adminstration as open and honest. No cure for that malaise.

Dylan  

Posted: October 15th, 2012 1:28 PM

People first, exactly. They point fingers, and then when you point a finger they say you are being hyper-partisan and always "blame the other side" despite the fact that they do that 24/7 Romney interrupted the President and Jim, but according to Conservatives he was strong. Then they get up in arms when Biden interrupts. They are hypocrites. Simple as that.

Dylan  

Posted: October 15th, 2012 1:25 PM

Ray, Its also interesting that you support Romney, though even Fox News, and your beloved Chris Wallace has been calling out the Romney team in terms of their Tax plan, which is not credible or sound. Romney and Ryan continue to refuse to answer questions about their proposal.

Robots First  

Posted: October 15th, 2012 1:22 PM

Silicon chip has switched to overload......overload......overload......overload......overload......overload......overload......

People First  

Posted: October 15th, 2012 1:09 PM

Ray Simpson is too darn funny. Sad thing is; he doesn't even realize it. Ray points an accusing finger at democratics for being loud but it must have slipped his mind that it was a republican who shouted, "You lie!" at President Obama during his state of union address.

Specifics Please from Oak Park  

Posted: October 15th, 2012 1:01 PM

I read this article and still do not know why Simpson supports Romney. It seems that his criteria for a candidate are generalizations; leadership, humor, constitutional knowledge, small business, taxes, and regulations, military, etc. These traits pretty much apply to every presidential candidate in history. There was not one proposed Romney policy listed in this editorial. If one is to write why they support one candidate over another, please provide specifics instead of vague generalities.

Ray Simpson from Oak Park  

Posted: October 15th, 2012 12:45 PM

To all of you FOX haters - 3 cheers to Chris Wallace who held Axelrods feet to the fire and threw his own words back into his face! Why is the administration sending campaign people out to defend foreign policy? Why are the Obama defenders so rude and feel they score points by talking over people, sneering and being loud?

Dad from OPRF  

Posted: October 15th, 2012 12:31 PM

I just figured out my political affiliation...I am for older former Governors! LOL...but seriously it worked for Clinton and I think overall Reagan's and Clinton's record is similar. Some success, some failures but overall good.

Dylan  

Posted: October 15th, 2012 12:26 PM

Its a shame you put Pres. Obama to a different standard than other Presidents. Reagan tripled the debt, and had unemployment above 10% for 10 months, and sold weapons to Iran, but he is not considered a failure.

Dad from OPRF  

Posted: October 15th, 2012 12:25 PM

@ Dylan...For the record I think Cantor, McConnel, Bachman, Santorim and Newt have no business guiding our country. Congress has fault too, much of it. But at a certain point an Executive gets 75% and then tries again. Or has Biden says, one for me one for you. In fact, I would be much happier if Biden was the P. I just think P should be above it and get what they can and move on. Obama seems to want to always win. I know I use to shoot a little pool with him. He is a best out 3 guy.

Dad from OPRF  

Posted: October 15th, 2012 12:19 PM

@ Dylan. I understand your partisanship. My voting record;Reagan, Reagan, Busch, Clinton, Clinton, Gore, Busch, Obama and now Romney. If you believe Obama will turn out to be Reagan lets see if he wins 49 states? Something tells me that my willingness to see each side gives me a clearer head. I do not believe at this time Obama will be better for the USA. If he a Johnson moment like Medicare or a Reagan moment like SS and Tip O'neil I would probably vote for him. I do not see change/hope

Dylan  

Posted: October 15th, 2012 12:13 PM

OPRF, Wait... so Progressives cannot give ANY blame to the other side, but Conservatives can give ALL the blame to the President? You have not made ONE comment about the failure of Congress and the GOP. But it is I who make us worse off? You have gone on and on about how Pres. Obama, but it is I who keeps blaming the other side? That's called hypocrisy.

Ray Simpson from Oak Park  

Posted: October 15th, 2012 12:10 PM

@People First - what is your obsession with FOX news? Could it be that they have found success by giving more of the stories than you find convenient? Their domination of cable news happens because they employ likable people who know their stuff and are respected in the news world. They are the only members of the White House Press Corps who ask hard news questions and follow up when they are spun. You make claims that they Lie Lie Lie but cannot prove any pattern of dishonesty and resort to single incidents from ten years ago where errors happened. You present a very weak case of dishonesty that only you would believe because you want it to be true. There is nothing in the world that makes you watch and if your on/off switch is broken just pull the plug.

Dylan  

Posted: October 15th, 2012 12:09 PM

Or how about the fact that unemployment exceeded 10% for 10 months with Reagan was President. It has only exceeded 10% for ONE month under Obama. But Pres. Obama is the failure? Unemployment didn't get under 7% under Pres. Reagan until his second term. But Pres. Obama is a failure, despite the fact that the Recession he inherited was worse.

Dad from OPRF  

Posted: October 15th, 2012 12:08 PM

when you keep on blaming the other side and look for political advantage by Mcconell or Obama you make us worse off. This is why moderate bills like Wyden-Bennette and Bowles get lost. Obama said he would champion those causes. In my view he has not. I always like to ask this question of the HC bill...how many House members and Senators voted for Medicare...313 and 68. That is what compromise looks like .

Dylan  

Posted: October 15th, 2012 12:01 PM

OPRF, But see that is the point. Pres. Obama has received ZERO support for anything from the GOP. So how can you blame him for everything. You brought up Libya. The GOP pushed for Embassy Security cuts, despite Pres. Obama asking for more. The issue we have is the Gov. is owned and Controlled by Corporations. They will be fine with Obamacare, small businesses won't. So then you would also say that Reagan was a failure right? Since he tripled the Debt.

People First  

Posted: October 15th, 2012 11:55 AM

Embrace birtherism, rj. And hold dear all of the other wingnut theories and notions that Fox News has been steadily funneling into your cranium. Taken in total that gibberish is what defines you. I noticed that some people tried to engaging in a factually based discussion only to be labeled a leftist. But all should be amused with your proclamation that you've vanquished them and triumphed in the "war of ideas". Hilarious! The next original thought you are able to formulate will be the first.

Dad from OPRF  

Posted: October 15th, 2012 11:48 AM

@ Dylan. Every Minority leader wants to take back G because they think they are right. Stopping employer provided healthcare? Republicans? Who killed Wyden-Bennett that Obama gave some measure of support to in 2007? A little of both parties but Unions hated it. Unions want to negotiate healthcare so they have never supported individual deduction vs business. A public option was mainly for people outside of Union jobs. And yes Regan deficits where a problem. This is my point..

Dylan  

Posted: October 15th, 2012 11:34 AM

I know the context McConnell said it in, and thanks for the reminder. I stick by it. Look what he also said " And we need to treat this election as the first step in retaking the government. " Not the first step to making the country better, but the first step in having control of the government. Also said "If President Obama does a Clintonian backflip, if he's willing to meet us halfway on some of the biggest issues" Pres. Obama has gone MORE than halfway on important issues.

OPRFDad  

Posted: October 15th, 2012 11:32 AM

@ Ray. I think Obama is going to lose the popular vote badly. The Chicago-style politics that he plays aren't endearing him to a large swath of the country. His team's handling of the Libya mess is just the latest example of tell the story facts be damned. Obama is an embarassment as president. Should never have had the job, and now he's effectively working his way out of it.

Dylan  

Posted: October 15th, 2012 11:31 AM

Next is that many and most Democrats DO NOT support having employment based insurance. This is why they have advocated for the exchanges, and even a public option - to get people away from Employment based insurance. But who blocks them? Republicans. So the issues you have with it are originally Republicans ideas. And the new current GOP ideas do not address rising HC costs and actually hurt patients.

Dylan  

Posted: October 15th, 2012 11:28 AM

In terms of Obamacare and your business. I hear you. I honestly do. And here is some issues. What passed was originally a Republican supported plan, not only through RomneyCare , but it has been a plan support by Conservatives for many years up until recently. Next is that I am not surprised that Obamacare is going to hurt Small Businesses. It was written by and for insurance companies, who looked out for their BIG CORP buddies. It makes it harder for small business persons like yourself.

Dylan  

Posted: October 15th, 2012 11:25 AM

OPRF, See, this is what I like, and what i want to engage in. Real points. I hear you in terms of Obamacare. My first point is - So are you going to let one piece of legislation say he has been a Failure? Reagan tripled the National Debt. - Thats a fact. Do you consider Reagan a failure? If not then I call bias because you pointed out Obama's deficit as a failure.

Dad from OPRF  

Posted: October 15th, 2012 11:06 AM

About talking points I would like to ask you to pause and remember when McConnell said that? In what context? Then ask what talking points you use? Here is the answer. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/when-did-mcconnell-say-he-wanted-to-make-obama-a-one-term-president/2012/09/24/79fd5cd8-0696-11e2-afff-d6c7f20a83bf_blog.html

Dad from OPRF  

Posted: October 15th, 2012 11:04 AM

experiencing the same thing. When I am told I am just a talking point I wish those people can sit in my chair. So at best I will need to pay $2000 plus admin costs per employee or $3000 fine. But the enraging thing...HHS still has not given final direction to the IRS or business on how this will be handled. And more law suits about state exchanges loom. Is this what we want...a law that 56% of USA does not want? BTW..Romneycare has a $250 employer fine...reasonable!

Dad from OPRF  

Posted: October 15th, 2012 10:54 AM

they only matter if you have profits. I am also a collection of 5 different business in how I originally put money together and for the purpose of Obamacare I am considered the same as GM. I have had bad years recently but I need a 17% increase in sales just to maintain once Obamacare becomes legal. So directly I am probably going to be selling most of my company just to survive. That is not a talking point...today I list. I am not alone. Franchises all over this country are

Dad from OPRF  

Posted: October 15th, 2012 10:48 AM

@ Dylan...G gotten worse? Does my experience count? If so let me enlighten you. I am a small business owner that offers PPO insurance to managers and catastrophic care to hourly. This year like McDs I had to stop offering the hourly plan and my rates for PPO went up 29%. I was offering too high a deduct and not enough care. I have meet with my accountant this month and the current outlines of Obamacare will cost me all of my profits plus 20%. Do not believe what you hear about tax credits

Dylan  

Posted: October 15th, 2012 10:25 AM

Also, must I remind you that it was the Republican Senate Minority leader, Mitch McConnell that said "Our number one priorities is to make Pres. Obama a one term President." There goal isn't jobs, the economy or even the American People, but to make Pres. Obama fail." And you say Obama is the partisan? Instead of being happy that unemployment is going down, the GOP tries to find ways to spin it that it isn't, and that the numbers are cooked. And Pres. Obama is partisan?

Dylan  

Posted: October 15th, 2012 10:22 AM

Show me how he has become "as partisan as the right" How has he separate us? Oh you mean how conservative media has painted him as a Communist Socialist Muslim that was born in Kenya? Its hard to work with a third of the country that believes in an alternate reality. Lastly, we have more impact on Reps than the Pres. OPRF, I am sorry to say this, but these just look like Talking Points from Fox News. I point to policy that People advocate for and then vote for.

Dylan  

Posted: October 15th, 2012 10:17 AM

OPRF, You are giving me talking points. Give me examples. Show me how he has sought more Gov. and how the Gov. has gotten worse. Obama has pushed for the closing of loopholes, rising of taxes on the rich, and the end of costly subsidies. But has been blocked by the GOP. So you can't blame him for that. He is not a dictator. Show me how he negotiates poorly. You mean how he had that healthcare summit where the GOP stuck to Talking Points instead of trying to find common ground?

Dad from OPRF  

Posted: October 15th, 2012 9:31 AM

@ Dylan Obama failed by his own standards. He said he was for better G, he sought more G. He chided Busch about deficit (correctly) then allowed a deficit almost 3 times the size for 3 years. He spoke out against NSA/Torture/Gitmo but it still goes on. He negotiates poorly. He has become as partisan as the right. He separates us with his words, he was suppose to join us. I always blame the Executive because I can not change the rep from Kentucky. He should use the thumb more then the finger

Dylan  

Posted: October 15th, 2012 9:03 AM

OPRF, Again, by what standards are you saying that "Obama failed" and his "actions and results have failed." You do realize that Congress holds responsibility as well. The President is the Executive. The Executive and only implement the law that Congress passes. The President wanted to create and save more jobs but the GOP said no. The President wanted the DREAM Act, but the GOP said no. The President asked for more funding for Embassy security, but the GOP said no.

Dylan  

Posted: October 15th, 2012 9:00 AM

Firstly, I think we should all remember that the Founders of this nation were not monolithic in their belief in government. This is part of the reason the Articles of Confederation failed. Since our founding there has been struggles about the level of power of the Federal vs. State Governments. Secondly, look at Jefferson's quote. "consolidation of power." Think about who pretty much controls this nation. Wall Street, the Banks, and large Corporations. However, folks continue to point at gov.

Dad from OPRF  

Posted: October 15th, 2012 8:50 AM

Jefferson Quotes...Our country is now taking so steady a course as to show by what road it will pass to destruction, to wit: by consolidation of power first, and then corruption, its necessary consequence...Were it left to me to decide whether we should have a government without newspapers, or newspapers without a government, I should not hesitate a moment to prefer the latter...I own that I am not a friend to a very energetic government. It is always oppressive.

Dad from OPRF  

Posted: October 15th, 2012 8:47 AM

Cont.."over-collected" NSA information which it latter corrected or so it says. I distrust G and refuse to live by ideology...I vote and live by actions and results. Obama's are poor. So to end my give and take here I had a hard time choosing one Jefferson quote. So I will list a few in next post as well. "When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. When the government fears the people, there is liberty."

Dad from OPRF  

Posted: October 15th, 2012 8:41 AM

@ Dylan I will list several quotes for your review. However I have always loved the Jefferson quote you listed. It shows how brilliant our founders where; they trusted no institution created by man. That includes corporations, religions and G. I also think you are absolutely correct about torture and the NSA issues. Look up the worldcantwait.net and check how human rights groups believe USA is still actively involved in rendition and torture. Check out NSA 2009 when Obama Admin

Ray Simpson from Oak Park  

Posted: October 15th, 2012 7:26 AM

@People First - You throw out innuendoes about Romney but never make any direct charges. Are you and Bob Beckel working off of the same song sheet? Without making personal remarks against me, please give us some actual facts that you feel disqualifies Romney. Please keep your factual problems within the last three decades. BTW I believe that you should support comments about my critical thinking skills before you start shoveling your political opinions out of the horse stall. The Libya situation is bad but the handling of that tragedy by Obama has been criminal in its dishonesty. The facts will come out eventually - the political spin is what angers me. Remember four surviving families deserve an explanation and our White House has served them short shrift.

rj  

Posted: October 15th, 2012 3:00 AM

As displayed here by PF it's obvious leftists have been completely intellectually vanquished. They've lost the war of ideas long ago & have finally noticed. This explains the hateful insults & bullying as they digress, distort & demonize all who don't agree with their failed socialist agenda.

People First  

Posted: October 15th, 2012 12:22 AM

Ray Simpson hears voices whispering to him an awful lot of nonsense. Sadly, he chooses to repeat the gibberish and share it on this forum. Ray the Parrot refuses to learn about Romney's actual record as the one-term governor of Massachusetts or Mitt's extravagant and corrupt spending of our federal tax dollars on the Winter Games. Of course, Ray cannot be expected to engage in critical thinking. He's a typical low information voter who fully absorbs the propaganda served to him by Roger Ailes.

People First  

Posted: October 14th, 2012 11:57 PM

OPRF Dad should buy a clue and a dictionary. He obviously doesn't have any idea what the word "communism" means. He seems quite comfortable to apply the term to our Village government but is completely unable to provide any evidence in support of such a wild and ridiculous claim. Wow! Really have to wonder if he's also part of those lunatic fringe groups who believe humans played with dinosaurs,that Elvis is still alive and Sarah Palin was qualified to be vice-president of the United States?

People First  

Posted: October 14th, 2012 11:35 PM

"Romney was vetted thoroughly"! By whom,rj? You? Fox News? Mormon church? Astounding that you even ignore critics within the Republican party who have publically blasted Mitt for refusing to release 10 years of tax returns and hiding his fortune in offshore banks. Let the record show. Romney crippled the state's finances while serving as an unpopular one term governor. As ceo of Bain capital, he personally destroyed American companies and outsourced good paying Amercian jobs. All for greed!

Ray Simpson from Oak Park  

Posted: October 14th, 2012 10:59 PM

@OPRF Dad I heard some number crunchers the other day say that Illinois isn't the lock Obama figures. Cook county polls well but the enthusiasm is failing. The Obama minions in the city were promised da bama money which never showed up. The collar counties are leaning Romney and down state is solid Romney. Last election Kirk won and Quin just squeaked by. Quin, Emanuel and Madagan have so thoroughly screwed this state that the voters might just decide they have been played for fools enough.

Dylan  

Posted: October 14th, 2012 10:06 PM

OPRF, Its no doubt there is not the excitement there was 4 years ago. However, I hardly doubt it as to do with people being ashamed. How do you determine a "failed Presidency"? Do you think Pres. Bush had a failed Presidency? You earlier claimed you voted for Obama, but how you talk about him and in general I doubt that. Especially since you think Oak Park is communist.

OPRFDad  

Posted: October 14th, 2012 8:10 PM

It's interesting that after four years of Obama, you don't see the volume of yard signs in OP that you did four years ago. Are people ashamed of Obama? Embarassed to publicly support his failed presidency? Is his overall support dropping here? It is encouraging to me to also see the number or Romney signs that have appeared in communist OP. if he has support here, imagine what it is like in a more rational and balanced segment of society. Thank God Obama will be gone shortly.

You're All Pinheads from OP  

Posted: October 14th, 2012 7:11 PM

You are all pinheads fighting about partisan silliness. Both candidates are horrible and have no ability to lead the country out of the current ditch it has run itself into., The decline of the American nation is underway and the two parties don't actually seem to care. Congratulations -- Democrats and Republicans both played significant roles in the demise of a once-great country. In just a generation or two, there will be nothing left but your hate-filled bickering.

rj  

Posted: October 14th, 2012 6:37 PM

PF better known as Obama's Deluded Sychophant - still doesn't understand that Romney was vetted thoroughly. Even Bill Clinton said he has a sterling background & could certainly serve as President. Again I have no reason to focus on his credibility. I suggest you turn your focus to the current fraud in the White House & start asking some serious questions of him & ask why you applaud failure. Even George Bernard Shaw said, "beware of false knowledge, it is more dangerous than ignorance."

People First  

Posted: October 14th, 2012 5:32 PM

Let's hear it for, rj! "I have no reason" is easily the most consise and accurate comment ever posted by Oak Park's one true birther and noisiest teapot. Still troublesome that so much anger and prejudice continues to block the thought process that allows for careful study factual information. Refusing to even examine Rommney's record indicates there is comfort found in ignorance. Obama Derangement Syndrome will be a challenge to overcome.

rj  

Posted: October 14th, 2012 11:45 AM

Dylan - Perhaps that Jefferson quote you referenced reflects today's Federal Reserve clearly engineering O's re-election bid by artifically re- booting the economy whenever need be. This "bids defiance to the laws of our country". Here's another Founding quote for you - "Honesty is the first chapter in the book of wisdom." and yet another -"My reading of history convinces me that most bad govt results from too much govt." it's quite simple-usually based on common sense principles.

Dylan  

Posted: October 13th, 2012 10:16 PM

Oh yeah, OPRF Dad, Do you also distrust a Government that believes that 47% of Americans are lazy and who themselves victims? Or how about a Government that believes it has the right to do warrantless wiretaps? Or How about a government that tortures? Your bias is obvious in this as you are focused on something so negligible compared to other actions that Previous Admins have taken, and views that possible future admins have.

Dylan  

Posted: October 13th, 2012 10:12 PM

I honestly think the Founders would be appalled by seeing Big Business and Government in bed together as they are today. What was the Boston Tea Party about? It was about a Preference given to a Corporation, basically a monopoly. If Lockheed doesn't like the Government rules then they can gladly not accept Government contracts. Period. If I hired a company for a job on my house and I asked them to do something, I would hope they would gladly do it, if not I will find myself another.

Dylan  

Posted: October 13th, 2012 10:08 PM

dad from oprf, Find me a quote of the Founders of this nation distrusting the Government THEY created. I have a quote for you about the distrust of Monied Corporations. I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations which dare already to challenge our government to a trial by strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country. - Thomas Jefferson. Imagine if President Obama said that today. Fox would label him a Communist and a Terrorist.

Ray Simpson from Oak Park  

Posted: October 13th, 2012 8:07 PM

@ Free I sure hope that the counseling fees will not come out of tax funds. The Kleenex is OK if it is recycled. I am encouraged by the excitement factor for Romney up 10% over Obama. I believe that many good Democrats cannot vote for Romney but their conscience forbids them supporting Obama. I hope those citizens leave that box open

Freespirit  

Posted: October 13th, 2012 7:17 PM

Mitt Romney WILL win by a landslide. Kleenex will be on sale for all you Osamabama supporters and counceling services throughout Liberal Oak Park. The rest of us will be celebrating with the few, the proud, the Republicans with Champagne & Caviar!

Ray Simpson from Oak Park  

Posted: October 13th, 2012 6:56 PM

Haptic - Just a minor point - the President is the one who is officially responsible for his personal representatives SAFETY on foreign soil. Four are dead and he has refused to assume any responsibility. There will be no resolution before the November election - now who is derelict in his duty and who is manipulating the situation for political advantage? As for your hanging a cutesie 'Biden title' on me - may I point out that I do not hide behind some silly handle from the 'Breaker -breaker' CB radio days. I use my real name and am willing to admit when I am wrong - are you as adult?

Haptic  

Posted: October 13th, 2012 5:36 PM

Character assassination? That's a good one Malarkey Man (and thank you for answering to your new name). You should know, since you and the GOP are using dead Americans in character assassination of the President of the United States. What sad, pathetic little people you are. Go watch Fox, they're the only friends you have.

Ray Simpson from Oak Park  

Posted: October 13th, 2012 5:28 PM

@ Haptic - you claim to be a reasonable adult and you do get a start on reasonable arguments then you start with your school yard, childish character assassination. Who listens to that crap? Grow up!

Brutal Truth  

Posted: October 13th, 2012 4:05 PM

Mitt Romney debates himself: http://youtu.be/bZfXvFAeHVo

Haptic  

Posted: October 13th, 2012 3:55 PM

Malarkey Man, the reason you haven't heard me mention Libya is that I'm a mature and reasonable person willing to wait for all the facts. You are not. You are just a despicable subhuman using American deaths for political aims. So is Mitt Romney.

Buxom  

Posted: October 13th, 2012 3:48 PM

Oh no. Hehe. http://www.scribd.com/doc/109920743/RMP-2012-III-01

Ray Simpson from Oak Park  

Posted: October 13th, 2012 3:23 PM

@ MO - I have seen 4 flag draped caskets! I have heard a couple mothers seeking answers! I have seen testimony in congress that sheds light on what happened. I have heard incoherent drivel from our president and you say I am not connecting the dots. Worse yet, you believe that all is well in the middle-east because Obama killed bin Ladin. This is serious stuff and if you choose to believe the White House you deserve what you get. In your world that ambassador isn't dead - our embassy was not burned there is peace in the arab world and I am dreaming all of this up. Sorry!

MichaelO from Oak Park  

Posted: October 13th, 2012 2:33 PM

Ray, You're wrong. You're just plain wrong. You toss in a few, often unrelated facts, in a stew of wrong then serve it up as truth. I can't believe you believe what you write. Why is it so important to you to twist, deny and or ignore intelligent informed reports to make your points? You cite Fox, Republican stooges and right wing idealogues. I think it might be time for your nap.

Ray Simpson from Oak Park  

Posted: October 13th, 2012 2:07 PM

@Haptic - with all of your worries about what I believe or do not believe, I have not heard a single word about Obama and the Libya attack from you. This is the big story and flashing shinny objects isn't about to work this time. Sworn testimony before congress assures us that Ryan budget considerations were in no way related to security staffing and these terrorist attacks. Senior State Department officials testified that they were in real time contact and knew absolutely that no stupid video was responsible. The White House kept weaving the lie that the attack was resulting from riots. KT McFarland was in the White House during Watergate and she says that this Libyan drip - drip - drip scandal is similar except there were no flag draped caskets that Nixon had to lie away. BTW August 1999 was during the Clinton era and very little was passed down. Not even the W's on Whitehouse keyboards.

Ray Simpson from Oak Park  

Posted: October 13th, 2012 1:23 PM

Haptic - Romney principals so far outpace the incompetent, lawless, self serving narcissist we now have, in the White House, that I have no reason to question my vote. Romney has run a business and knows what it takes. Obama cannot see beyond his own "eye candy" image. We are in trouble and Obama got us here and offers no path to recover. He is willing to throw Hillary under the bus to save his own skinny hide. Crossing the Clintons may well be the stupidest mistake of his presidency - couldn't happen to a nicer guy!

Haptic  

Posted: October 13th, 2012 12:40 PM

I'm going to start calling Ray, "Malarkey Man." BTW, Ray, which Mitt Romney are you voting for? The "severe conservative," you fell in love with or Moderate Mitt, who likes government regulation? Either way, your vote proves you have about as much principle as Mitt.

Haptic  

Posted: October 13th, 2012 12:35 PM

Ray said, "Sept 10,2001 no one in our country would have imagined that a rag tag bunch of muslims would fly airplanes into our buildings." Bull feces. An August 1999 Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) Civil Aviation Security intelligence office report warned on the potential of a "suicide hijacking operation." Furthermore, NORAD had contingency plans in place to deal with such an event. Ray, you amaze me with your foolish statements in the age of Google.

Haptic  

Posted: October 13th, 2012 12:21 PM

Bain owned company forced to lower U.S. flag: http://www.salem-news.com/articles/october112012/romney-us-flag-tk.php http://www.ourfuture.org/blog-entry/2012104110/why-romney-wont-talk-sensata-workers-whose-jobs-are-being-shipped-china Is this what you righties really want to do to us?

Ray Simpson from Oak Park  

Posted: October 13th, 2012 10:29 AM

@People First - Bain NEVER got tax payer bailout monies! What happened was Romney leveraged a Bain creditor bank to forgive a loan which they recovered through FDIC. FDIC is a self insurance company that banks pay to cover losses. No direct tax money went to Bain - Quit getting your facts from Rolling Stone! And you snipe about FOX news! Hypocrite!!

rj  

Posted: October 13th, 2012 9:31 AM

PF - I have no reason to focus on Romney's record. He's capable of bringing some semblance of order to all this insanity & danger created by your messiah. Obviously the Sychophants have nothing as O's past is deeply buried and his four years in the white house are unspeakably despicable. I understand your predicament. But then you get your propaganda from that "unbiased" media. As a result you wouldn't know that Hilary Clinton was the original " birther" prior to 2008.

Ray Simpson from Oak Park  

Posted: October 13th, 2012 8:10 AM

@People First - additionally if you can come up with a good cover story I bet the White House would include it in their next Talking Points sheet. They have no good story of their own.

Ray Simpson from Oak Park  

Posted: October 13th, 2012 7:56 AM

@People First- we all know that you swoon at the very image of Obama. We also know that the middle east is a bomb with several fuses - all lit. We now know that the Obama White House is working overtime to blame anyone and everyone outside of the Oval Office for the incompetence in Libya. The problem he has is there are those four dead bodies and four families who want to know why. Not to mention an entire nation who is seeking the truth from our government. Obama seems not to know that blaming the State Department will result in another fuse added to the bomb. The Clintons are not ones to mess with and Bill still has plans to occupy the White House again. If Obama lays the blame on the intelligence community he is messing with a whole bunch of professional spooks who have played this game in earnest and know how to get even. We are faced with sworn testimony, before congress, that isn't even remotely supportive of the Obama narrative. These are facts reported by all of the news sources, not just FOX. BTW FOX has developed an hour by hour time line that is not disputed by anyone except the White House who has failed to offer any credible line of their own. In the next debate this will probably be laid in Obamas lap and he will look foolish if he tries to blame anyone other than the commander-in-chief. We all expect you will step up and blame Bush and FOX and Hillary and those pesky Republicans in the congress and everyone but the incompetent occupant of the White House. Good Luck! We all wait for your explanation of this disaster!

People First  

Posted: October 13th, 2012 2:45 AM

Exhibit A. Notice how the O.D.S. person is completely unable to directly focus on the Romney record and instead is compelled to respond by parroting the gibberish that's effectively overwhelmed the brain via 24/7 exposure to the republican propaganda machine known as Fox News. Completely unable to accept and process factual data or express a single independent thought. All definite symptoms of Obama Derangement Syndrome. Also presents an acute case of birtherism. Hapless and hopeless.

rj  

Posted: October 13th, 2012 1:55 AM

Typical leftist selective outrage. The unvetted grifter in the White House spent millions of dollars to keep his records sealed - didn't seem to matter you knew nothing about him. What is he hiding- no curiosity there. You have a problem with the Olympics but not with O's cronyism picking losers with our tax dollars. Perhaps your ODS stands for Obama's Deluded Sychophants.

People First  

Posted: October 13th, 2012 12:25 AM

Obama Derangement Syndrome has infected some of these folks. Ask them about Romney's failures in Massachusetts. Or Bain receiving federal bailouts. What about outsourcing American jobs and his secret accounts? Interested in Romney's unaccountable spending of $1.3 billion of our tax dollars on the Olympics? How about his 7 different position on abortion or the 47% of us he derided to his rich pals? They don't care. They want him no matter what the record says about Romney. They've got O.D.S.

Aaron from Oak Park  

Posted: October 12th, 2012 11:34 PM

And according to the book "This Time is Different", gov't debt on average increase by 86% the three years following a banking crisis. This comes from big decreases in tax revenue and increases in gov't spending (in more than just bank bailouts). I suggest to people that are constantly blaming the current administration for all economic troubles to pick up a book, go to some economics and math courses, and listen and read from non-bias news sources (NPR, PBS, factcheck.org).

Aaron from Oak Park  

Posted: October 12th, 2012 11:27 PM

There are way too many people here that are badly misinformed regarding the deficits that our federal gov't has sustained over the past four years. Fiscal Years start in October, not in January. From the CBO estimates, the estimated fiscal deficit for 2009 was $1.2 trillion regardless if McCain or Obama were President. The financial crisis created a massive lose of jobs and therefore tax revenue the gov't receives.

Ray Simpson from Oak Park  

Posted: October 12th, 2012 4:54 PM

@haptic do you remember, as a child , your mother saying "If johnny jumps out of the window will you jump as well?" You guys are real good at cherry picking history to prove points. Sept 10,2001 no one in our country would have imagined that a rag tag bunch of muslims would fly airplanes into our buildings. That was a wake up call! Obamas defenders justify lawless activities by selective indictment of former presidents of the other party. This is taking the blame game to new levels of dishonesty. As is usual you punctuate your argument with personal attacks. " Your mother wears combat boots!"

Unfortunately  

Posted: October 12th, 2012 4:12 PM

@Haptic. I believe that I can honestly relate to your semi-emotional posts. Why? Because for 8 years it was the left which made every effort to be "scurrilous" in their attacks of Bush. Even on WJ posts, OP conservatives have been critical of many actions of Bush and the R's in Congress. I've noticed, though, starting with Trainor, no one does the same from the left. Essentially, Obama is "the one" and that's it. Gitmo is open and drones are killing many civilians. Any opinion/comment?

TheBunk  

Posted: October 12th, 2012 3:53 PM

The biggest reason to vote Romney: he's not Obama. Everything Obama touches is a failure. Thank God the media couldn't cover up his latest ineptitude in foreign relations. How stupid does he think the American public is? the UN? Attacks on 911? Must be because of a movie.

Haptic  

Posted: October 12th, 2012 2:45 PM

But don't let my logical argument stop you and your cohorts, Ray, from your scurrilous attacks on the President. I'm quite enjoying you demonstrating to the villages and the country the intellectually dishonest, shameless, despicable excuses for human beings you and your side are. BTW, how'd that "Fast and Furious" thing work out for you?

Haptic  

Posted: October 12th, 2012 2:42 PM

Ray, what was the title of the Presidential Daily Briefing Bush got in the month or so before 911? Oh yeah, "Bin Laden determined to attack inside the United States." What did he do? Nothing. But let's not stop there. Remember when lax security resulted in over 200 Marines getting blown up in Lebanon back under Reagan? Did the Democrats use it for political purposes? No, just like they didn't after 911, even though they could.

Dad from OPRF  

Posted: October 12th, 2012 12:42 PM

The proper action the G should have taken with Lockheed is let them announce whatever they wanted. After that the G can then say that they will work hard to avoid that and believe that Lockheed's actions where premature. That is it. No arm twisting and no covering of legal exposures. No risk, proper action that respects the difference of G and private company. However the campaign took over and Obama's call to a better self is lost. That pains me.

Dad from OPRF  

Posted: October 12th, 2012 12:33 PM

..of our creation. Due to that we always can change/modify the tool. The passage of the Declaration is the preamble that lays the foundation that man is superior to G. I completely understand your POV that G has the right to tell any business what to do because it pays it $. I find that false on its face and against our founding. Our founders rightful distrusted G and saw that a person is more important than G. I distrust any G that makes political decisions like the one with lockheed.

Dad from OPRF  

Posted: October 12th, 2012 12:22 PM

@ Dylan..you asked. Someone who starts posts with "sigh" and types in capital letters is at best being rude and at worst be arrogant. Lockheed makes much more than defense stuff. If fact they are a leaders in nano-tech and renewable energy. What you fail to realize is that for political reasons our G told a private company what to do against it's better judgement and then promised to cover it legally if it ran into trouble. That is an abuse of G on its face. And yes G is a tool...

Dylan  

Posted: October 11th, 2012 10:29 PM

OPRF You can dance around it, but its a fact that Lockheed would not exist, as it currently does, without the Government. Period. Its a fact. Accept it. It doesn't matter that we at one time created spears. What matters is that TODAY, only Governments, and some militia groups, purchase missiles and bomber airplanes.

Dylan  

Posted: October 11th, 2012 10:25 PM

Now you make it personal. I think you just want to argue to be right. You keep changing what you are saying. You first said that "G is a tool not a creation of man."Now you say that "A tool is a creation yes." What are you trying to say? Governments can be de-solved when the people are not happy with it. I never said it couldn't. Government is made up of men and women.. so I don't know what you mean by "declaration states exactly that showing us that G in inferior to man."

Dad from OPRF  

Posted: October 11th, 2012 10:17 PM

@ Dylan. A tool is a creation yes. However, a tool can be thrown in the garbage when not serving the needs of people. The Declaration states exactly that showing us that G is inferior to man. That is what you do not and will not understand. Weapons where first created by man for their personal use, then G used them for its use. Do not confuse modern weapons with the idea that G is the creator of needs. Been fun but feel you are lost in a liberal world which rejects the obvious, so sigh

Dylan  

Posted: October 11th, 2012 10:08 PM

OPRF "G is a tool not a creation of man." I think we are done with this conversation since what you are saying doesn't make sense... If government is not created by man then who creates the government? Look back at Jefferson's quote "governments are instituted among men." Instituted - To set up; to establish; to ordain - AKA TO CREATE. Yes, Lockheed serves the Government, and therefore WOULD NOT EXIST without the Government. Period.

Dad from OPRF  

Posted: October 11th, 2012 9:43 PM

This is a great article about where we should be...http://www.weeklystandard.com/articles/real-debate_653224.html?nopager=1. Also...Lockeheed serves G is my point. Not created by G.

Dad from OPRF  

Posted: October 11th, 2012 9:41 PM

@ Dylan. Thomas Jefferson explained, "our rulers can have authority over such natural rights only as we have submitted to them." Also, "governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed." G is a tool not a creation of man. Your POV is based upon a false idea that we come together at G. My next point has a great link that explain it better than I can.

Dylan  

Posted: October 11th, 2012 9:34 PM

The people didn't "hire" the government. Humans since our existence have come together and CREATED governments. Governments are there to... GOVERN. To create a set of laws for people to live by to offer security and welfare for the people. The Revolution was not about "limiting Government", it was about Representation and self-determination..

Dylan  

Posted: October 11th, 2012 9:26 PM

Dad from OPRF Sigh... Go check out Lockheed's website. http://www.lockheedmartin.com/us/who-we-are/organization.html answer me this... What "customers" do you think Lockheed has that are not Governments? If it does then that is concerning. What customers need missles, airplane bombers, etc. Lockheed exists because of Governments, our own and others. Because only Governments have enough $ to buy missiles, bombs, airplanes, and space technology..

Dylan  

Posted: October 11th, 2012 9:19 PM

Ray, Sigh. If you don't see that Government does what we cannot do as individuals then this conversation will go no where. No where did I mention anything even close to "the collective kabutz in the old Soviet union." No where did I claim the the government should do everything. So you are simply making things up.

Dad from OPRF  

Posted: October 11th, 2012 3:21 PM

Our Declaration celebrated the individual and became the basis of freedoms that no G can take away. Obama's sentiments are that G is the necessary ingredient for us to succeed not the service company of our needs. If you understand conduit in regards to providing electric in your house you will understand what I mean. Its there protecting you and letting you function, but its buried and needs little maintenance. That's when G is at its best.

Dad from OPRF  

Posted: October 11th, 2012 3:12 PM

@ Dylan. You really need to review the sentiments of Jefferson again. What you miss in your argument is that people came first and they hired G to help them live better lives. That is what you ignore. You also do not get that Lockheed only comes about by serving the needs of customers not that G created it. I understand your POV but you fail to understand its limits and burdens to people. Our revolution was brilliant because for the first time it said G was limited.

Ray Simpson from Oak park  

Posted: October 11th, 2012 2:05 PM

Dylan- your argument was the rational for the collective kabutz in the old Soviet union. we all know how well that worked out. Unions use the same reason to exist which means that your value is always limited by the least able.

russ  

Posted: October 11th, 2012 1:29 PM

Dylan, so do you tell your children, they didn't build that too??? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EZQvSCGaJI

Dylan  

Posted: October 11th, 2012 1:21 PM

"So by your lockheed/home building logic those that pay really are the employers and lockheeed/Gvmt are just middle men?" Yes. And actually isn't that the whole "Job Creators" argument. That Rich folk invest in new businesses? Again, those employees wouldn't have a job with Lockheed in the first place if it wasn't for the Government Contract - they are being paid with money given to the Corporation from the Government. Why is this so difficult to understand?

Dylan  

Posted: October 11th, 2012 1:19 PM

"The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together. There are some things, just like fighting fires, we don't do on our own. I mean, imagine if everybody had their own fire service. That would be a hard way to organize fighting fires." Next time please do your research to see what was said. He was talking about how collectively we do things individuals cannot. And How government is part of that.

Dylan  

Posted: October 11th, 2012 1:17 PM

"If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you've got a business. you didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn't get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the

Ray Simpson from Oak park  

Posted: October 11th, 2012 12:22 PM

The product i use to remove old stickers is called "GOOF OFF" is that prophetic?

Ray Simpson from Oak park  

Posted: October 11th, 2012 12:19 PM

@ luke we could offer to recycle old yard signs and remove bumper stickers as a community service. I volunteer to help!

rj  

Posted: October 11th, 2012 11:52 AM

Ray - great job, as usual. We need to keep our presence known. And Luke, a great idea to come together, as we do here!

Luke ScottWalker from Oak Park  

Posted: October 11th, 2012 11:46 AM

Great piece, Ray. I think we should have a "come together" community breakfast in Mills Park the morning after Romney's victory. It'll be a chance for all of us OP conservatives to come out of hiding, and share fellowship with those who've maligned, insulted & misrepresented us these past 4 years. I know I'll be pleased to offer reconciliation to my neighbors, & hopefully talk them down off the ledge.

Brian from Oak Park  

Posted: October 11th, 2012 11:03 AM

Ray, ditto on the positive comments. Very nice work. Many of us do appreciate your thoughts. Thanks.

Ray Simpson from Oak Park  

Posted: October 11th, 2012 10:50 AM

@Bri Thanks! A nice comment now and again makes me feel better. The comments we see here get down and dirty quite often.

Dad from OPRF  

Posted: October 11th, 2012 10:42 AM

@ Dylan. Clearly Obama was talking about G building things not businesses. Can G build anything without business? So by your lockheed/home building logic those that pay really are the employers and lockheeed/Gvmt are just middle men? Obama talks and acts like G is the prime mover. If you believe your home building logic G is just a conduit.

rj  

Posted: October 11th, 2012 10:28 AM

Could anyone who voted for O four years ago please tell me what O meant when he said "we are days away from 'fundamentally transforming' this country. Did anyone bother to ask themselves exactly what this ultimately meant?

Dylan Bellisle  

Posted: October 11th, 2012 10:10 AM

Dad from OPRF. You are right in terms of your explaining of "you did not build that." It was BS because the GOP when they picked it up were not hammering him on business owners not contributing to the building of society. They misquoted him in saying that "You didn't build your own business." which is not what he said, period.

Dylan  

Posted: October 11th, 2012 10:07 AM

Ray, No. Its not all Paul Ryan's fault, but the government is not one person. If you cannot see that, then we will not get anywhere. If you don't provide enough $ to do the job, then the job won't get done. Period.

Bri  

Posted: October 11th, 2012 9:45 AM

Great article Ray!

Ray Simpson from Oak Park  

Posted: October 11th, 2012 9:34 AM

@Dad and the SOX play at Kamanski park!

Dad from OPRF  

Posted: October 11th, 2012 8:50 AM

Cont...G in Illinois have helped the Sox, Bulls and Bears build stadiums and those private companies profit. They have also paid off businesses to stay in IL. Imagine for one minute that G did not have this $ to give. They only had enough to help those in real need. They had less money because they taxed less. G always seems to turn wants into needs. Just look at the Hotel project in OP. As a usual D voter I am concerned that Obama is turning everything in to a need...but he is a sox fan.

Dad from OPRF  

Posted: October 11th, 2012 8:46 AM

Choosing this President comes down to where you stand on Barney Frank's argument that G is what we decided to do together. Sounds good right? Or sounds like G is trying to do too much? I am a Cub fan. Suppose I rally and get more Cub fans elected. Then then decide its good for "the community" if the Cubs win the World Series. So G will give the Cubs $100M to buy players. Sounds silly right? Then ask yourselves how much money sports teams have received in Illinois over the last 25 years?

Dad from OPRF  

Posted: October 11th, 2012 8:40 AM

@ Dylan. I am confused. Earlier you said the "you did not build that" was BS. So if the G gives money to lockheed they are "virtually" responsible for workers employment. So if G build's roads where did they get the money? Oh businesses and citizens so G did not do that we did that. G is a conduit nothing more and we always end up in the chicken and the egg argument. What came first? Lockheed services the needs of G in over 75 countries BTW.

Ray Simpson from Oak park  

Posted: October 11th, 2012 7:50 AM

The central point is not where can we lay blame! The responsibility is that of the president - no matter what! What is disturbing many Americans is the dishonest fabrication of facts to fit a political agenda. Here we are five weeks from a terrorist attack on U.S. embassy, dead Americans and the best defense you guys can muster is spending cuts. I get it it is all Paul Ryan's fault! These are all lame excuses for an incompetent executive leader who cannot see farther than his "eye candy" image. We made a big mistake four years ago and could repeat it in 3 weeks. The Libya situation is serious enough that Obama should resign, he isn't adult enough to accept the results of his actions.

Dylan  

Posted: October 11th, 2012 12:50 AM

Ray, You do remember that we have had many threats of a government shut-down due to disagreements in government funding. Both parties are to blame for the lack of funding for Security, though its a fact that it was the Republicans that pushed for the cuts in Embassy Security, while Pres. Obama had asked for substantially more than they were willing to give. I am sure he wasn't expecting this attack many months ago when the last continuing resolution was passed.

Dylan Bellisle  

Posted: October 11th, 2012 12:46 AM

Ray, So now you won't even believe the words out of the mouth of a Republican who said he pushed for the cuts in Embassy Security? Where did I mention Bush? No where. We have continued to fund the government through continuing resolutions. And in those there can be cuts proposed and passed. This is simply my point. There isn't one person to blame. The House Republicans pushed for the Cuts, and the Senate Democrats and Pres. Obama reluctantly accepted them.

Ray Simpson from Oak Park  

Posted: October 11th, 2012 12:33 AM

Republican house cuts? No one chamber can do anything without a companion document from the other plus a signature from the President. There have not been any budget bills through the Senate in 3 1/2 years. Good try - no cigar! We have become so use to blaming others to justify our illegal actions that the crime seems trivial - 4 dead bodies - 4 devastated families and all you can do is 'Blame Bush' Obama needs to set the story straight and tell us what happened. He isn't a big enough man to do that.

Dylan  

Posted: October 11th, 2012 12:17 AM

Reality, If I pay a company to do work on my house the company then pays its workers right? Those workers don't directly work for me, but the only reason they have that work is because I hired the company. Also, if you hire a company to do a job for you, you should also have a level direction in terms of how and when the work is done. Why is it so unreasonable for the Gov. to have some say since the gov is contracting Lockheed? I thought conservatives wanted the gov. to act more like business

Dylan Bellisle  

Posted: October 11th, 2012 12:07 AM

Realitysux, They aren't paid by the Government? Then where does the money come from? Answer me this... If Lockheed was not receiving a government contract would those workers still be employed? No. They wouldn't because they are working under a contract to do a job for the government. There is no false premise. Those employees only have jobs with Lockheed because Lockheed received a government contract.

Realitysux  

Posted: October 10th, 2012 11:10 PM

Dylan- They are in no way, shape, or form remotely close to the definition of gov't employees and are NOT paid by the govt. A real conversation can't exist when your arguements are based on a false premise. Much like your claim that Obama "SAVED" the auto industry. Why isn't GM to big to fail, like Goldman Sachs? Are you claiming we wouldn't have any cars produced w/out a bailout? Did GM still go bankrupt AFTER the bailout? Did GM lay of 21,000 workers and close plants, just like Bain?

Dylan  

Posted: October 10th, 2012 10:17 PM

Realitysux, Um... no " They are basically government employees as they are paid by the government. " Basically as in practically, virtually, etc. But go ahead and keep mincing words to fit your arguments instead of engaging in a real conversation about the issues at hand.

Realitysux  

Posted: October 10th, 2012 10:06 PM

DYLAN- YOU are the 1 who keeps switching the arguement. AT 4:27 you argue that it is a PRIVATE company aand at 5:01 you then claim they are gov't employees because they are paid under a gov't contract. You seem NOT to actually understand the issue. Also, funny how Obama is supposed to be so smart and well spoken, yet we need to be told that it was clear he was talking about roads and bridges when the statement was gramatically not stating that.

People First  

Posted: October 10th, 2012 10:00 PM

You want facts, OPRF Dad? Let's start with the Mormon church supporting the Vietnam War and objecting to it's chuch members receiving religious deferments. Mitt demonstrated as pro-draft and pro-war while evading military service with a "activity in study" deferment. Romney lied to the Boston Herald in'94 when he claimed he did not take any action to remove himself from the pool of young men eligible to serve. Spin this all you want but the truth is Romney dodged while others served and died.

Haptic  

Posted: October 10th, 2012 9:46 PM

Ray, 9/11 was a terrorist attack. A big one. Deflection? The signs were there. Experts were screaming at the Bushies, yet they were ignored. Libya was a terrorist attack. Your side allows its hatred of this president to completely warp its view. You voted for Bush. Twice. Hypocrite.

Dylan Bellisle  

Posted: October 10th, 2012 9:36 PM

Yes Ray. The Government doesn't care at all. No one within the Obama Administration, the State Dept, etc cares at all about those who were killed. You are completely right. So I am guessing you were screaming when we found out that there were no WMDs in Iraq and we were lied to and 100s of our men and women died in an unnecessary war? I am guessing you didn't scream. Thats called Hypocrisy.

opcitizen from Oak Park  

Posted: October 10th, 2012 9:34 PM

Mitt Romney has a sense of humor? Compared to what, a corpse? "If I were Latino, I'd have a better chance of winning." That's a real hoot. If Mitt were Latino, he wouldn't be such a boring milquetoast. The better humor in that pair comes from his wife: unzip Mitt and you'll see he's not stiff. Take it from the one who knows best.

Ray Simpson from Oak Park  

Posted: October 10th, 2012 9:30 PM

@Haptic 9-11 was an act of war! the deflection you offer gives little comfort to families of the victims. The lies and deceit coming from the White House is here and now - only 3 weeks from an election. The various stories they have told, vary so much that most of them must be lies! Failure to provide requested security support had to come from the WH. A six hour fire fight and we didn't send help - WHY? I understand that this is an embarrassment to Obama, but people died and our government doesn't care!

Dylan Bellisle  

Posted: October 10th, 2012 9:26 PM

Ray, How are not the House Republicans also responsible for this "Criminal Activity." They admit that they authorized cuts in the Embassy Security. The President cannot spend money that Congress does not authorize, therefore Congress holds responsibility in terms of the lack of adequate funding to PROTECT the Embassies in the first place. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/10/jason-chaffetz-embassy_n_1954912.html?utm_hp_ref=politics

Dylan Bellisle  

Posted: October 10th, 2012 9:23 PM

Ray, Wait... So the Republican Controlled House CUTS funding to the State Department Security budget, and then they hold that Pres. Obama holds all the blame that there was not enough security to control the event? Ray, see thats the problem that is happening right now. For the past 2 years the House Republicans have blocked so many things that it is actually HURTING our security, not to mention our job growth.

Dylan Bellisle  

Posted: October 10th, 2012 9:18 PM

Haptic! Exactly! We also tortured individuals and no one was held accountable. Also there were bombings of embassies in the past. Were there hearings then?

opcitizen from Oak Park  

Posted: October 10th, 2012 9:14 PM

I'm glad to see you are so concerned about the death of a government employee. Of course you realize that government is the problem not the solution. If only Blackwater (I mean Xe) had been guarding the embassy, nothing bad would have happened. And, I'm sure J Williard would have been happy to send someone else's children to defend our diplomats-- his sons are too busy, as he was.

Haptic  

Posted: October 10th, 2012 8:55 PM

Funny Ray, I don't recall Democrats in Congress holding hearings and accusing the Bush Administration of criminal negligence after 3000 people died in New York, even though they could have. There's really no depth to which your side won't stoop.

Ray Simpson from Oak Park  

Posted: October 10th, 2012 8:37 PM

I watched some of the hearings about Libya today and what seems to be an underlying theme is "Criminal Negligence" We have a dead ambassador, 2 dead Seals and a dead embassy worker. That is not arguable since we all saw the flag draped caskets and the horror in the faces of relatives. Obama cannot blame that picture on anyone else. The "My administration, Administration" is front and center and their incompetence becomes more evident as the time line develops. State blames the White House The White House just lies through their teeth. Those from the administration are tap dancing to avoid taking a hit over their ball spiking victory claims. For those of you with your shorts in knots about 40 year old draft status claims - get real - look at those sad eyes of murdered embassy personnel. Your guy was responsible for their safety and he failed! Worse yet he is not man enough to admit his failings. Your vote for him makes you a part of the crime since you choose to ignore this criminal activity.

Buxom  

Posted: October 10th, 2012 7:27 PM

Mitt Romney is the Kama Sutra candidate. He has 64 different positions on every issue.

Dad from OPRF  

Posted: October 10th, 2012 6:45 PM

@ Dylan. The respect for law is that the Obama administration curtailed the actions of a private company to fit their political needs and then when the company balked said do not worry we will cover your legal bills. Those are the actions of any DEM or GOP I do not respect and find unacceptable. Those are not the actions we where called to in 2008 to put our "petty political differences aside." I hoped this would change and Obama was different. I was wrong. I respect that u do not agree.

Dad from OPRF  

Posted: October 10th, 2012 6:38 PM

@ People. You have your facts wrong. He supported a group that called for the respect of Govt and peaceful protests. He did this in an area that was having daily unruly protests. He received a normal college deferment, got a normal Moran deferment and then registered for draft upon his return from France. My daughter is in the Army so I understand service and have no problem with anyone who took a college or religious deferment just like Clinton.

People First  

Posted: October 10th, 2012 6:20 PM

Hey, Dad from OPRF. I just found the questions you posted to me. You do recognize the fact that Mitt Romney was vocal in his suppport of the draft and US involvement in Vietnam? I am not aware that Bill Clinton took an activist role of that nature. You are incorrect about Mormons serving in the military. When Romney's number was called; he fled the country and hid in a French castle for 5 years. It's was fine with Mitt for others to serve and die for that war he supported. You okay with that?

Dylan  

Posted: October 10th, 2012 5:44 PM

Dad from OPRF You keep changing your argument, so I am done with this conversation. With everything I say you change your stance. Your first post you said that the Obama Admin is breaking the law - which is false. This was the basis of your whole argument at first... Now you are talking about the morality. If you want to talk about morality I could go on forever about the immorality of many within the GOP and Romney.

People First  

Posted: October 10th, 2012 5:40 PM

What I love, Ray is how easy it is for you to just ignore the truth nature of the man you claim will put this country back on track.

Dylan  

Posted: October 10th, 2012 5:40 PM

You seem die-hard in your belief, though its not based on the facts of the article. WARN Act requires "most employers with 100 or more employees to provide notification 60 calendar days in advance of plant closings and mass layoffs." The lay offs are not within 60 days, but COULD BE later than that if at all. So they are not breaking the law. Where in the article does it say that "the private company wanted to do this and even after meeting with DOD." I do not see that anywhere.

Dad from OPRF  

Posted: October 10th, 2012 5:36 PM

@ Dylan. There is legal and there is moral. Sometimes they are not the same thing. I have had to layoff people...it sucks! The cuts at lockhead go beyond the budget deal. They are going to lose a system at those N VA plants. Every investor and Executive knows this. They wanted to do the morally right thing. Give ample notice and explain the variables. They wanted to treat their workers like adults. They where stopped because VA is "IN PLAY".

Dad from OPRF  

Posted: October 10th, 2012 5:32 PM

@ Dylan. WARN act only cover PRIVATE WORKERS. GM gave notice to Taurus workers on southside a few years back of 200 days. My Uncle was one of them. The private company wanted to do this and even after meeting with DOD knew that some layoffs where coming. They wanted to follow the act and give people proper notice that this was possible. They also possible wanted to reduce staff on 1/2/13 in preparing for what came next. The Admin strong armed them..its is very simple

Dylan  

Posted: October 10th, 2012 5:26 PM

The fact is that Lockhead was making that decision because they thought they would lose the money they were going to get from the Government from the Contract. They THOUGHT the contract would end Jan 2nd. This is why they were going to issue the layoff notices on Nov. 2nd, because they thought the employees would be lay-offed on Jan 2nd, but they are not. Therefore no reason to issue the notice, because they will not be lay-off

Dylan  

Posted: October 10th, 2012 5:22 PM

Thats the real world "Dad from OPRF". Folks get laid off everyday, some don't get any notice. No one should ever ASSUME they will have their job forever, especially in this day. They are well-within the 60 days notice, and that is right. You keep moving the goal-post. According to you ALL Employees should be notified 120 days, 4 months, in advance if there is a lay-off. Tell me of a company that does this with all its layoffs. NONE.

Dylan  

Posted: October 10th, 2012 5:19 PM

Sigh... Did you read the article? it starts off with.. "Defense contractor Lockheed Martin..." They work and produce through contracts from the Federal Government. That is how they make their money, from Contracts given to them from the Federal Government. Do you understand this?

Dad from OPRF  

Posted: October 10th, 2012 5:14 PM

@ Dylan. Also it is clearly implied by Obama Admin that if it happens it will be 3 months latter so no reason to let people know. So lets see; you work for Lockhead and Xmas is coming. You spend $ based upon a good job. Come 1/2/13 you are informed that you are being laid off in March. What good does that do you? Also, the specific contract that Lockhead is talking about is most certainly on the chopping block. Proper awareness by employees is only decent thing to do.

Ray Simpson from Oak Park  

Posted: October 10th, 2012 5:14 PM

@People First - You seem to love to judge people by things they did decades ago. The debate was last week and the exhibited competence/ incompetence was there for all to see. Deferments during Viet Nam were exploited by everyone who could work the system. I fail to see how that is in any way relevant to how Romney would help our country out of the Obama malaise. A lifetime of business success is what I see and a four year term of total failure is also on the table as a stark comparison.

Dad from OPRF  

Posted: October 10th, 2012 5:10 PM

@ Dylan. Completely false. These are people paid by a private employer. WARN does not cover G employees. The employer felt they should do this...Obama said do not...said they would cover legal bills...company knows this will affect them in 2013...told Wall Street to expect less profits...company only changed mind after they got commitment to cover legal bills...how is this not a strong arm political tactic? Oh in toss up Virginia!

Dylan  

Posted: October 10th, 2012 5:01 PM

Because the employees are paid through Government Contract. They are basically government employees as they are paid by the government. Explain the "strong armed" approach. They were told that the cuts will not happen, so they have no reason to let the employees know... Why would they give the employees a 60 day layoff notice if it is CERTAIN they will not be laid off in 60 days??

Dad from OPRF  

Posted: October 10th, 2012 4:54 PM

@Dylan. Why did the administration inject itself in this? The company wanted to do it and was strong armed. They should have been left to do what they thought was right for their employees. Its that simple. I will vote mostly D this election and voted for Obama last time. I just do not understand all of this excuse making for a man that called us to a higher standard. He has failed by his own standards.

Dad from OPRF  

Posted: October 10th, 2012 4:50 PM

@ People First. Two questions. Explain how Romney actively avoided the draft? Compare and contrast Bill Clinton's deferment? A few pieces of information...Mormons have routinely been given deferments since WWI. Romney registered for the draft in 1970 once his commitment to church was finished. Mormons must complete a mission trip during their college years. BTW.. Quakers and Amish do not serve either and I would never disqualify anyone based upon religion to be President.

Dylan  

Posted: October 10th, 2012 4:50 PM

Another terrible example is the RNC and conservative commentators about the "You didn't build that." It is clear from Pres. Obama's speech that he was talking about the roads and bridges that help for commerce, not the business itself. But politically they picked it up and ran with it, because it sounds good. Just as the Democrats picked up the 47% quote.

Brian Slowiak from Oak Park  

Posted: October 10th, 2012 4:49 PM

In what capacity did Bill Clinton serve his country by doing military service?

Dylan  

Posted: October 10th, 2012 4:48 PM

The Obama campaign and liberal commentators incorrectly attacked Romney about his comment on the "47%". Its clear that Romney was talking about that He is not going to worry about their votes, because he won't get them. What was WRONG about what he said is that he made ALL people who do not pay Federal Income tax to sound like free-loaders who are victims dependent on the government. THATS the issue with what he said. That somehow because you don't pay Fed income tax you are lazy and a victim

Dylan  

Posted: October 10th, 2012 4:45 PM

Again, I don't see any issue of it. The layoffs will probably not happen, and they certaintly won't happen on Jan 2nd, so there is no need to issue the layoff notice on Nov. 2nd, since there will CERTAINLY be no layoffs on Jan 2nd. I wouldn't care if Bush did it. Its a non-issue. I will give you an example....

Dad from OPRF  

Posted: October 10th, 2012 4:39 PM

@ Dylan. Clearly the company wants to give proper notice that this may happen. Notice does not mean certain layoffs. It is the right thing to do no matter if layoff are certain or not. It goes to the issue of following the law. The administration should never have been involved period! The only reason Obama got involved is because of politics. Lockheed knows these layoffs are coming no matter what happens. In fact they have release earnings that reflect this. Imagine Bush did this.

People First  

Posted: October 10th, 2012 4:33 PM

Why such trouble, Ray? Too tough for you to face the facts that Mitt Romney is not the man you seek to promote him to be? How do you explain and defend his decision to avoid serving in the military while advocating such a strident position regarding the draft and the Vietnam War? Are you even able to admit he chose to run and hide when his country called and that he was and is not a man of any real conviction. His actions in the 60s are a reflection of his character or lack thereof. Speak up!

Dylan  

Posted: October 10th, 2012 4:30 PM

"The additional guidance offered important new information about the potential timing of DOD actions under sequestration, indicating that DOD anticipates no contract actions on or about 2 January, 2013, and that any action to adjust funding levels on contracts as a result of sequestration would likely not occur for several months after 2 Jan. " IE. The layoffs wouldn't happen Jan 2 anyways....again... none issue being cooked up by folks who want to create a huge political issue out of som

Dylan  

Posted: October 10th, 2012 4:27 PM

sigh... this is a non-issue. its a private company that is working off of a government contract. Did you read the entire article? This has to do with the sequester. The lay-offs are not certain. And thats the point of not issuing the lay-off notice. Both the Democrats and the Republicans have claimed they DO NOT want to see those cuts made. So we can suspect they will come back after the election yell and scream at each other and find someway to not have the cuts.

Dad from OPRF  

Posted: October 10th, 2012 4:19 PM

@ Dylan. Did you miss that...The Obama administration is instructing a private company to not follow the law because it will be a political liability. Its saying do not worry those job may be lost but probably not at 1/2/13. So instead of legally informing your employees that there are impending layoffs next year wait til after the election to do so. Explain how that is just...and do not use the childish everyone does it. Hold him to a higher standard. In 2008 he asked us to.

Dylan  

Posted: October 10th, 2012 4:07 PM

Okay, and the point is? Republicans across the nation have created "Law Suit funds" in legislation that they KNEW that would be challenged in court - things like Anti-abortion bills, Voter ID bills. Scott Walker has a "law suit fund." EVERY SINGLE law that is challenged in court costs us the tax payers money. So all the Voter ID laws that have been challenged in court have cost tax payers of those taxes. This is not something new....

Dad from OPRF  

Posted: October 10th, 2012 3:12 PM

@ Dylan...Constitutional Issue. Following the law http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/10/at-white-house-request-lockheed-martin-drops-plan-to-issue-layoff-notices/ So understand that there may be law suits because of this and the Obama Admin has promised that the taxpayer will cover those suits. FYI...The Obama Admin has not promised to roll back these cuts only to delay them. On its face at best this is circumventing the meaning of the law.

Dylan  

Posted: October 10th, 2012 2:48 PM

Ray Maybe I do make a better case, which is too bad. I am not asking for a constitional case for "Czars" and recess appointments.(All Presidents have made recess appointments) I am asking for an argument how Romney has proved to you that he will Respect the Constitution. Can you answer that question? And your side cannot quit snipping about MSNBC. Its the same thing. If you believe that Fox is "Fair and Balanced" then that is the problem right there. I will admit that MSNBC is left leaning

rj  

Posted: October 10th, 2012 2:15 PM

O - The incompetent, petulant empty suit isn't capable of extending his hand across the aisle even for the sake of a photo op - not when he can resort to executive orders at the suggestion of his new congress - czars.

Dad from OPRF  

Posted: October 10th, 2012 2:11 PM

@ Tom.. Facts. March of 2009 Obama budget did not meet his goal of 1/2 of deficit before GDP came out. He assume FY 2009 numbers and did not meet his goal in HIS created budget. From there he choose stimulus and it did not work towards HIS stated goal; grow at 4.5% and keep unemployment under 8%. Bowles had support of 3 R Senators and 2 other R's on panel. He choose to side with Becerra/Schakowsky instead of wooing Baucus/Camp/Ryan who stated possible movement. He made bad choices.

Tom from River Forest  

Posted: October 10th, 2012 2:05 PM

Really Ray, are you really going to say that you are voting for Romney because he will represent "all of us." I can only assume that Fox News gave no coverage at all to Romney's admission that he does not care at all about 47% of the population. Jeez Ray, sometimes its like you're not even trying to be an effective advocate. Why don't you just admit that you would vote for anyone who is not Obama because that is all that Romney has going for him at this point.

Ray Simpson from Oak Park  

Posted: October 10th, 2012 2:00 PM

People first - I stated why I will be voting for Mitt. You don't like my reasons - I get it! I on the other hand see your guy as a total incompetent who lies through his teeth to justify everything that happens. We will never agree and one of us will prevail in November. At that point the new president will be required to represent ALL of us! Obama failed to understand that in his first term and shows no inclination for his second. Chicago Politics pain and simple.

Tom from River Forest  

Posted: October 10th, 2012 1:42 PM

Dad, maybe I always use that defense because it is true. You are aware that in 1Q 2009 GDP dropped by more than 6%. No one, including the president, anticipated that severe a decline. Regarding Simpson Bowles, all republicans said that they would not support the revenue side even before the thing was passed. What could Obama do?

Dad from OPRF  

Posted: October 10th, 2012 1:07 PM

@ Tom..You always use the it was worse than we thought defense. In 2008 Obama ran and won on a theme that things where really bad. In 2008 he talked about how we had big choice to make. He pointed a direction; I voted for him. He was given a chance to make good and failed. In 2009 his budget was presented after he knew the affects of the recession; he punted on his promise. He was given a chance again in 2010 with Bowles and left it at the alter. Blaming others is childish. Judge him

Dad from OPRF  

Posted: October 10th, 2012 12:58 PM

In March of 2009 Jack Lew had to then defend a plan that 3 months after the election was already discredited by the CBO of ever having a chance to achieve his stated goal. Was the President lying as a candidate? Did he just not understand? Or did he say something that would get him elected? This is why in choosing a President do not compare him against the other guy, grade him on his performance by what HE promised. Gitmo closed? NSA spying curtailed? Deficit in 1/2? If no vote Romney

People First  

Posted: October 10th, 2012 12:51 PM

Has Ray Simpson prepared a defense for Romney? Since Mitt refuses to talk about it, as is the case with many issues, what does Ray have to say about draft dodging? Romney openly marched in full support of the draft and US involvement in Vietnam. Yet, when he was called to serve, Mitt flew off to France and hid in a castle for 5 years. Let's hear from Ray. Does he stand with this hypocrite and embrace the notion that it is acceptable to let others fight the deadly fight?

Tom from River Forest  

Posted: October 10th, 2012 12:47 PM

Yeah Dad, the most severe economic downturn since the Great Depression had nothing at all to do with anything.

Dad from OPRF  

Posted: October 10th, 2012 12:44 PM

Those that want to vote for Obama should ask this question; in 2008 what exactly was Obama's plan to reduce the deficit? If you forgot; end war, cut waste, Bush taxes cuts gone and reform healthcare. He was extremely vague on details and said that his principals would guide him. Hillary said that was wishful thinking. Obama also floated and in 2010 adopted what became Bowles/Simpson. So in summary Obama pointed to a goal, gave lose ideas on how to get there and then threw up his hands.

Ray Simpson from oak park  

Posted: October 10th, 2012 11:25 AM

Dylan - You make a better case for Obama than he does. All of those reasons are my reasons to oppose re election and wonder why Axelrod is unwilling to make a list like you have. I believe you are wrong in your perceived direction for our country and I will speak and vote to prevent your desired outcome. The auto bailout had nothing to do with jobs, but rather the illegal transfer of ownership from bond holders to union Obama supporting thugs. Who speaks for the childs right to survive? You cannot make a constitutional case for Czars and recess appointments when congress is in session - this is a lawless president! Your side cannot quit snipping about FOX - can it be they offer a more balanced approach than your DNC furnished drivel.

Dylan Bellisle  

Posted: October 10th, 2012 11:14 AM

Lastly, You did exactly what you said I did. You attacked Pres. Obama instead of answering my questions. How do you come to the conclusion that Romney respects the constitution? Instead of answering, you attacked the President. How did you come to the conclusion about his Foreign Policy? Instead of answering, you attacked the President. That is hypocrisy Ray. You did exactly what you pointed your finger at me for....

Dylan  

Posted: October 10th, 2012 10:14 AM

I don't believe we would get the DREAM Act or Immigration reform from Romney, we could with Pres. Obama. I am afraid how Romney could attack voting rights, and women's right to choose, as many Republican states have across the nation. Obama will protect them. I am terrified of an even more Conservative Supreme Court - with terrible ruling that put the benefit of Corporations above WE THE PEOPLE. We need more sensible Judges.

Dylan  

Posted: October 10th, 2012 10:12 AM

I am voting for Pres. Obama because I think we are on the right track. We saved the auto industry. The stimulus ( though not perfect) prevented 10s of thousands of jobs from being lost, and helped to create many more. I like ObamaCare, and think it needs to go further. I don't want to go to war with Iran, and I think Romney would take us there. II think Romney would coddle the rich and take us further towards a Banana Republic.

Dylan Bellisle  

Posted: October 10th, 2012 10:08 AM

Ray - Are you glued to Fox News 24/7? I mean come on Ray, lets engage in an adult conversation . . Mitt Romney has been lying the entire campaign. Even his GOP contenders said this! Why do you so easily criticize others, but can't take criticism for the candidate you support? Do you know how many executive orders he has issued and how it compared to the last president? Or presidents before him?

Ray Simpson from Dylan  

Posted: October 10th, 2012 8:36 AM

@Dylan - Do you get Talking Points e-mailed to you directly? Respecting the constitution by Obama seems inconsistent from someone who appoints Czars and uses executive orders like breath mints. You cannot deny that the situation in Libya was presented to the US citizen dishonestly for political porpoise. Obama doesn't seem harnessed by anything close to the truth. In the Obama world truth is what gets him elected and lies are what the other guy says. You can parrot that "LIER" mantra all you want, but we saw a different candidate last week. Obama may well be better prepared next time , but Romney knows it and will be just as well prepared - wanna bet? I have given my reasons for supporting Romney and you have failed to give positive reasons to give Obama four more years. Tearing my candidate down isn't reason to vote for yours.

Dylan  

Posted: October 9th, 2012 11:57 PM

"Obama's campaign will most likely resort to attacking Romney's church." Fox News and other Republican surrogates have been attacking Obama's faith his entire term. Enough to have over 25% of Republican-voters actually believe he is Muslim. Why do Republicans never take responsibility for the action of their own? And then smear the other before they even do it?

Dylan  

Posted: October 9th, 2012 11:55 PM

Its interesting you speak of "some made-up boogieman threat". The GOP and Fox News has done that for 4 years with Pres. Obama. Also what does the New Black Panther voter intimidation have ANYTHING to do with Pres. Obama? dare I ask? Interesting how you totally omit the extreme agendas the GOP has been pushing at state levels. Making it harder for people to vote, for women to chose, and anti-immigrant laws, while having few jobs bills...

Dylan Bellisle  

Posted: October 9th, 2012 11:52 PM

Romney also lied numerous times in the debate, and gave inaccurate figures. How do you come to the conclusion that "Romney respects the constitution and understands its genius."? Are you saying Pres. Obama does not? I find that hard seeing as he was a Constitution Lawyer. No President fulfills their promises - They can't they must work with Congress. Only Congress can write laws. How did you come to the conclusion about his Foreign Policy stance? He has already had a few slip-ups.

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