Staying true to our identity

Opinion: Ken Trainor

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By Ken Trainor

Staff writer

Are you in favor of regulating guns in spite of the conservative wing of the Supreme Court banning our handgun ban? The Oak Park Board of Health, a citizens advisory panel, will host a public forum next Tuesday night to give residents a chance to weigh in on the subject.

"We want to hear from citizens about their thoughts and ideas as to how firearms should be regulated in the village of Oak Park," said Margaret Provost-Fyfe, director of the Oak Park Public Health Department.

The health department has already come up with a list of ideas, ranging from a handgun registry to requiring village-sponsored safety training and zoning regulations for gun stores (so we don't get a repeat of the shop that just opened on Roosevelt Road, across the street from two towns with significant gang activity — Brilliant!).

I won't be at the forum on Jan. 24 (village hall, 7 p.m.) because I've already heard more than I care to from the "rah, rah, guns for everyone" crowd, but I do have a few suggestions for the board's consideration:

1) An advisory referendum on the November ballot: "In the interest of public safety, are you in favor of regulating the use, possession and sale of handguns in the village of Oak Park?" Or words to that effect. It would allow voters to make a statement and we'll find out where residents really stand on the issue. Or have the board of health conduct a village-wide survey on guns, gun ownership and gun carrying in the village. The results would likely be illuminating.

2) Institute a voluntary ban on handguns. It's symbolic, but it allows us to take a public stand in favor of sanity. They say people rise to meet expectations. Oak Park should clearly and courageously state its collective expectation: We don't want guns in our village. Cite the referendum results as proof. People need to know when they're out of step with their community.

3) Impose a stiff tax on gun ownership. Gun enthusiasts should have to pay for the privilege of endangering the rest of us. It's the least they can do to show how socially responsible they are. If they don't register and pay the tax, their gun ownership would be revoked.

4) Install metal detectors at the entrance of all public buildings — libraries, schools, churches, village hall, the Lake Theatre, restaurants. According to The Index in Harper's magazine last month, no less than 11,488 guns were confiscated last year alone from tourists visiting the Statue of Liberty. That gives a clear indication of the insanity sweeping this country. I don't want modern gunslingers bringing their weapons into public places in Oak Park. Just as cowboys had to surrender their pistols when they entered the saloon in the old Westerns, today's cowboys and vigilante-wannabes should have to surrender their precious firearms in full view of everyone — and then show their FOID card in order to retrieve them when they leave.

5) Require anyone with a gun to join a newly constituted Oak Park Militia, which would train several weeks per year, preferably during the hottest part of the summer, plus one weekend per month. Since they love the Second Amendment so much and since the amendment so clearly states that being a member of a well-regulated militia is critical to the right to bear arms, they can hardly object. The police would call them in to assist in emergencies.

Whatever we do, let's set an example for other communities around the country. Maybe this will catch on.

The Supreme Court ruling is wrong. They're imposing an extremist interpretation of the Second Amendment. Communities should be allowed to protect their "domestic tranquility" as they see fit, not forced on us by well-financed, outside lobbying groups. The conservative partisans who rule the court now won't be there forever. Someday, when the country comes to its senses, we'll finally repeal this execrable, obsolete amendment. The day that happens should be declared a national holiday.

Law, first and foremost, is a way for communities to codify their values and their expectations. I'm pretty confident in saying that the vast majority of Oak Park residents do not value firearms. We expect people to keep them out of this community. Our laws should reflect that. They are an expression of our very identity.

The problem with next Tuesday's forum is that it will be dominated by the gun slingers, so, like me, a lot of people may stay away to spare themselves the aggravation. Instead, I urge an email/phone call/letter-writing campaign to express your support for regulating guns in Oak Park. Feel free to second my motion for any or all of the aforementioned recommendations.

I suggest contacting Village President David Pope, who has expressed an interest in this issue, by calling 708-358-5796 or emailing dpope@oak-park.us.

Contact Margaret Provost-Fyfe, head of the health department, by calling 708-358-5480 or e-mailing health@oak-park.us.

Contact:
Email: ktrainor@wjinc.com

Reader Comments

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terry from peoria  

Posted: January 22nd, 2012 12:00 PM

all the comments from anti gun freaks..... get your facts straight. you guys must think the entire population outside Illinois is dwindling because they all have carry laws. OPEN YOUR EYES... crime is going down out there because of there 2nd amendment rights. check the fbi reports

Brian Slowiak from Oak Park  

Posted: January 21st, 2012 12:20 PM

I second the request made by Luke Scott Walker in regards to GUNZ statement"The value of human life is above all others". What is the opinion of GUNZ on abortion?Time to speak up GUNZ.

Gun Control Supporters are Racists! from South Oak Park  

Posted: January 21st, 2012 11:12 AM

Trainor, et al., state that the current S. Ct. took the wrong view of the 2d Amendment based on S. Ct. precedent. Yet Cruikshank, the 1st S. Ct. case dealing with the 2d Amendment, dealt with the issue (in extreme sum) of whether whites in LA could disarm ex-slaves, in connection with a local election, without violating the 2d Amendment. Of course all the white S. Ct. judges said "yes." Yes, folks, the origins of all gun control legislation/jurisprudence in the US is based on racism...

Democrats Talk A Good Game  

Posted: January 21st, 2012 9:59 AM

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/21/opinion/21kristof.html

Director Robert S. Mueller, III from 935 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW Washington, D.C. 20535-0001   

Posted: January 21st, 2012 7:12 AM

So based on that (1.38 mil x 49%) x 80%) / 1.38 mil 4.8 mil = 8.75% of the violent crimes committed are solved each year. I am sorry to report to those who believe like US Supreme Court Justice Sonia Sotomayor that big brother can protect you, the facts show otherwise. People decide to buy life, car, home, or medical insurance to prepare for unplanned events, we urge citizens who recognize that the police only manage to solve 8.75% of all violent crimes committed, protect themselves!

Director Robert S. Mueller, III from 935 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW Washington, D.C. 20535-0001   

Posted: January 21st, 2012 7:07 AM

Police, whose best response times are 4 minutes, avg 15-20 minutes, only solve 8.75% of all violent crimes committed on a yearly basis! FBI UCR 2008 1.38 mil VCR (Violent Crime Reported) 49% solved to prosecution, 80% success rate. http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/ucr.htm But oh wait, we have to remember those 4.8 million violent crimes the government recognizes that were not reported USDOJ National Victimization report 2008. http://www.data.gov/details/1526

Earl Warren from Washington D.C.  

Posted: January 21st, 2012 7:00 AM

http://supreme.justia.com/us/390/85/ Haynes vs. U.S. 390 U.S. 85 1968 where the US Supreme Court ruled 8-1 in favor of Haynes that any law requiring a felon to self incriminate themselves and violate their 5th amendment rights was not enforceable as a charge for prosecution. Hence criminals don't have to follow 85% of the existing gun control laws that do so, e.g. your stolen weapons, registrations, etc.... Amazing how the criminals don't have to obey these laws yet only law-abiding citizens do?

Sonia Sotomayor from Washington D.C.  

Posted: January 21st, 2012 6:57 AM

Morris v. Musser, 84 Pa. Cmwth. 170, 478 A.2d 937 (1984) (no liability for failure to provide police protection) "Law enforcement agencies and personnel have no duty to protect individuals from the criminal acts of others." -Lynch vs North Carolina Department of Justice 1989 So depressing for the socialists democratic party which I blindly and willingly support. If you are depressed and discouraged by these facts, we suggest a triple dose of Obama Lama Ding a Ling prozac/lsd koolaid

Sonia Sotomayor from Washington D.C.  

Posted: January 21st, 2012 6:55 AM

It is depressing we cant prove by law you are protected by big brother! Simpson's Food Fair v. Evansville, 272 N.E.2d 871 (Ind. App.) (no liability for failure to provide police protection) Silver v. Minneapolis, 170 N.W.2d 206 (Minn. 1969) (no liability for failure to provide police protection) Wuetrich V. Delia, 155 N.J. Super. 324, 326, 382, A.2d 929, 930 cert. denied 77 N.J. 486, 391 A.2d 500 (1978) (no liability for failure to provide police protection)

Sonia Sotomayor from Washington D.C.  

Posted: January 21st, 2012 6:53 AM

Check when those Chicago court rulings occurred! Sapp v. Tallahassee, 348 So.2d 363 (Fla. App. 1st Dist.), cert. denied 354 So.2d 985 (Fla. 1977); Ill. Rec. Stat. 4-102 (no liability for failure to provide police protection) Keane v. Chicago, 98 Ill. App.2d 460, 240 N.E.2d 321 (1st Dist. 1968) (no liability for failure to provide police protection) Jamison v. Chicago, 48 Ill. App. 3d 567 (1st Dist. 1977) (no liability for failure to provide police protection)

Sonia Sotomayor from Washington D.C.  

Posted: January 21st, 2012 6:51 AM

More Davidson v. Westminster, 32 Cal.3d 197, 185, Cal. Rep. 252; 649 P.2d 894 (1982) (no liability for failure to provide police protection) Stone v. State 106 Cal.App.3d 924, 165 Cal Rep. 339 (1980) (no liability for failure to provide police protection) Morgan v. District of Columbia, 468 A.2d 1306 (D.C.App. 1983) (no liability for failure to provide police protection) Warren v. District of Columbia, 444 A.2d 1 (D.C.App 1981) (no liability for failure to provide police protection)

Sonia SotoMayor from Washington D.C.  

Posted: January 21st, 2012 6:50 AM

I am sorry comrades, I can not reverese all these decision1 The courts have ruled the police have no duty to protect individuals:%u2028 Bowers v. DeVito, 686 F.2d 616 (7th Cir. 1982) (no federal constitutional requirement that police provide protection) Calogrides v. Mobile, 475 So. 2d 560 (Ala. 1985); Cal Govt. Code 845 (no liability for failure to provide police protection) Calogrides v. Mobile, 846 (no liability for failure to arrest or to retain arrested person in custody)

Sigmund Freud from Belleview Sanitorium Chicago  

Posted: January 21st, 2012 6:38 AM

Again and continuously, we see the empty rhetoric of the anti gun schizophrenics in reply to overwhelming facts and data they can not refute. It is a wonder such peoples ancestors made it to America as surely they claimed the earth was flat and should have fallen off the edge of the earth attempting to get to the New Wrold!

lmao@idiots.com  

Posted: January 21st, 2012 3:47 AM

LMAO. Again, and continuously, the gun fetishists posting here, while angrily stroking their guns in their laps, amply demonstrate that they are too deranged to be allowed to own weapons.

R Lee Emery from SGT USMC  

Posted: January 20th, 2012 10:51 PM

...of personal freedom, property, and privacy. And that would require a fundamental transformation of American society. Ah, but of course. That fundamental transformation is exactly what has been declared as the goal. A dead American lawman is a small price to pay for that, and as Holder has said, no apology need be given.

R Lee Emery from SGT USMC  

Posted: January 20th, 2012 10:50 PM

...in order to permit random inspection of homes and shops suspected of harboring machinery or machinists. So let us suppose Holder's Fast and Furious conspiracy had succeeded in mobilizing public support in such a way as to satisfy to the fullest the gun banning desires of Chicago Democrats. The evidence from Mao's China, the USSR, the Philippines, et al. via the NY times makes it obvious that the only way to enforce such a ban would be to abandon our long held Constitutional protections...

R Lee Emery from SGT USMC  

Posted: January 20th, 2012 10:49 PM

It would be laughable to attempt enforcement without first prohibiting the private, individual possession of the machine tools. The remaining in factories would have to be carefully monitored and controlled. Naturally, few Americans would willingly obey bans on ownership of tools. To enforce those bans the guarantees under the Fourth Amendment against unreasonable search and seizure would have to be abandoned....

R Lee Emery from SGT USMC  

Posted: January 20th, 2012 10:47 PM

With millions of available machine tools and millions of garages and basements in which bootleg factories can be established, the number of guns that can be illegally produced is unlimited. Predictably, the tighter that firearms restrictions would become, the greater would be the rewards for bootlegging. Thus, the only way to enforce such laws would be to emulate, and go much further than, the Communist dictatorships which themselves failed to stamp out gun bootlegging.

R Lee Emery from SGT USMC  

Posted: January 20th, 2012 10:46 PM

That there kiddies is a history lesson with only a few of many examples of gun bans failing, even when the most brutal of dicatorships existed. In the U.S. there are of course no restrictions on the private ownership of machine tools; anyone with a little cash can buy a lathe and milling machine, and the necessary skills are readily acquired or hired.

Ghandi from India  

Posted: January 20th, 2012 10:43 PM

The Times reported on August 18, 1980 on fighting between Moslems and Hindus in the Indian state of Kashmir "where the manufacture of so-called country guns is something of a cottage industry." On April 27, 1987 the Times reported widespread gun bootlegging in the Indian state of Bihar, where "even an old truck's steering wheel can be fashioned into a gun barrel at one of dozens of makeshift factories."

Ferdinand Marcos from Sarrat, Ilocos Norte  

Posted: January 20th, 2012 10:42 PM

A portion of their products are "periodically discovered" being smuggled into Japan. Mydans described a typical gun maker, Benjamin Barriga, who produced these copies "on a hand turned lathe in a pigsty that abuts his thatched home..." And another manufacturer "whose five-man assembly line shares a thatched workshop with wandering pigs and chickens."

Ferdinand Marcos from Sarrat, Ilocos Norte  

Posted: January 20th, 2012 10:41 PM

The Times archives provide many other examples of the ease with which guns of any sort can be fabricated quickly and in large numbers even in primitive conditions. May 7, 1987 Times correspondent Seth Mydans reported on Philippine gun bootleggers who manufactured to order "sophisticated copies of European and American pistols with nickel or silver plate & counterfeit brand markings." In the town of Danao "3,000 gun makers provided a livelihood, directly or indirectly, for 60% of the residents.

Menachem Begin from Tel Aviv Israel  

Posted: January 20th, 2012 10:36 PM

Ah yes, the good old days when we gained our independence. We had to make underground facilities, with many hand tools, and we manufactured millions of rounds of 9 mm ammunition for all the copies of sten gun we used to win our freedom. Even though a ban and blockade on importing such weapons was implemented by the League of Nations. That was to suppliment all the weapons we smuggled into Isreal from sympathetic sources.

Mao Se Tung from Peking China  

Posted: January 20th, 2012 10:30 PM

Yet in both nations, during the height of Communist power and despite omnipresent informers, bootleg guns were made either by stealing the machinery outright for use in underground factories or were used to make guns in state owned factories under the noses of authorities.

Mao Se Tung from Peking China  

Posted: January 20th, 2012 10:30 PM

In June of that year Butterfield reported on another Peking bank robbery in which 2 criminals carried four homemade guns. Other news articles in the Times have described gang wars and other criminal acts in China where such bootleg weapons were used. In these two highly regimented Communist police states even the ownership of machine tools by private individuals was strictly forbidden, as was their use for private purposes.

Mao Se Tung from Peking China  

Posted: January 20th, 2012 10:28 PM

The Times reported several times on the illegal manufacture of firearms in the most brutal of police states, Maoist China. On February 10, 1980 its Peking reporter, Fox Butterfield, described a recent Peking bank robbery and stated that during Mao's rule "many workers in factories are said to have fashioned knives and guns."

Margaret Thatcher from London England  

Posted: January 20th, 2012 10:26 PM

Other newspapers have echoed these reports. On December 11, 1988 England's Manchester Guardian reported that "the number of weapons held illegally in Azerbaijan [then a part of the USSR] is clearly formidable." Poor Leonoid Breshnev must have Stalin & Kruschev rolling in their graves!

Stalin from Moscow  

Posted: January 20th, 2012 10:24 PM

Aug. 8, 1973, C.L. Sulzberge, Times op-ed piece, Arms and the Soviet Man, reported that "underground gun factories had been discovered" in several Republics within Soviet Union. "Machine tools have been stolen from govt. factories" and used to make guns, "pistols disguised as fountain pens" and there are "large amounts of explosives and firearms" in four Republics." Noted Sulzberger, "The interesting thing that Soviet society, known for discipline and supervision should have this problem.

Sigmund Frued from Belleview Hospital  

Posted: January 20th, 2012 10:15 PM

Ve see da local schizophrenics are on zee loose again. I must have a chance to examine how such a individuals mind fails to function in zee real world, beleiving inanimate objects can kill. I must have zee chance to study why zees schizophrenics blame all those innocent gun owners ven it's obvious it is the criminals and doz loveable suicidal maniacs kill over 95% of people killed with a firearm. Zee last person who I saw that did this refused treatment, I wonder what become of good old Adolf

Ray Simpson from Oak Park  

Posted: January 20th, 2012 9:09 PM

Lets see - mandatory 3 day waiting period, FOID card, trigger locks, locked range box in a gun safe. There are much easier ways to get guns than from me. A nut with a gun or a knife or drunk while driving - can you protect yourself? If not there are no degrees of dead and they all end badly. The crazies you worry about don't give a twit about laws much less ordinances and the only people harmed by your well intentioned efforts are the guys like me that poses no threat at all to you. I believe that the politicians sell us on the idea that if you send them back to Springfield or Washington this time they will devise a gun law that will cause euphoria in the hand wringing community - A SCAM!! If those same representatives would demand that the existing laws were enforced to the fullest most of the problems would be resolved.

Oak Parker  

Posted: January 20th, 2012 8:09 PM

A nut with a knife or behind the wheel of a car cannot kill me as quickly as a nut with a gun. Guns kill. I'm not questioning the right of anyone to own a gun. Go ahead. Law-abiding gun owners should and must submit to reasonable requirements of gun ownership, because they are dangerous weapons and must be monitored. It's a public health issue. I have a granddaughter here. I don't want stray bullets going through her head or a playmate accidentally discharging a gun during innocent play.

Ray Simpson from Oak Park  

Posted: January 20th, 2012 5:30 PM

Guns are just inanimate collections of metal and plastic. No brain, no heart just the ability to fire a round. The evil is not in the machine but rather the nut behind the trigger. If that nut is intent upon doing bad things the absence of a gun will not even slow him down.

GUNZ KILL  

Posted: January 20th, 2012 4:14 PM

Guns are NOT nice things.

Charleton Down From The Mountain  

Posted: January 20th, 2012 3:47 PM

Gunz: "and that's why we can't have nice things?" Why because there's thieves about? How about no silverware, no fine art, no rare coins allowed because someone will break into your Oak Park Shangri-la, steal them, and buy drugs with the proceeds?

GUNZ KILL  

Posted: January 20th, 2012 1:35 PM

Ray, My point is there are tons of guns out there illegally. Where do you think they originate? In legal hands. I think the owners of the gun range need to be held accountable for not securing them good enough even if there was a break in.Anyone heard of a safe before. This isnt the only gun shop that was robbed. I believe 3 or 4. Not sure of the total number of weapons stolen but you get my point. No guns, no illegal guns in the hands of the wrong people.Thats been my stance from the get go!

Parks207 from Kyle  

Posted: January 20th, 2012 10:55 AM

Ray Simpson from Oak Park. I quoted the author, he is wrong. SCOTUS found correctly, according to history and our founding documents. If I was misunderstood, I do apologize.

Ken Trainor-Useless Hack  

Posted: January 20th, 2012 10:50 AM

So let me get this straight Ken, you write this article, whose best attribute is lining the bottom of a bird cage, and then you cowardly acknowledge that your not going to the meeting. Put up or shut up Ken, and quit hiding in your Mom's basement and come out in public to argue your beliefs. If not your just another left wing paper pundit that can't hack the hard road.

Ray Simpson from Oak Park  

Posted: January 19th, 2012 10:25 PM

GUNZ - Lets see, they got the kids and about half of the guns. They also got all of the serial numbers and anyone caught with any of those guns goes to jail for 1 possessing a stolen firearm 2 purchasing stolen goods 3 no FOID. All of this and they didn't have to be caught doing anything. Sad thing - I think I know the owner of that shop and he follows all of the rules.

R Lee Emery from SGT USMC  

Posted: January 19th, 2012 10:07 PM

Naw, misquoted on purpose as the anti's are too stupid to know the difference.

Sgt Friday from Dragnet  

Posted: January 19th, 2012 10:04 PM

Yes mam, those teenagers who were not old enough to own a pistol stole all those weapons in violation of the law. Now mam, please keep to the facts, did any of the little hoodlums belong to the NRA, no they did not. Did any of those little hoodlums have a record including felonies, yeah they did. So explain again how it is the 80 million law abidng gun owners that are the problem, whooops!

Q from Oak Park  

Posted: January 19th, 2012 6:34 PM

R Lee Emery from SGT USMC, we had a different understanding. This is your weapon, and this is your gun, (The D.I. pointing at his zipper), this is for killing and this is for fun. He was a poet who made a very impressive point so no one would get confused.

GUNZ KILL  

Posted: January 19th, 2012 5:13 PM

@Ray Simpson, Hundreds of guns stolen from Des Plaines gun shop, four teens charged. They ONLY RECOVERED 58!!! Legal Guns EH?

Tim Koughlin  

Posted: January 19th, 2012 5:10 PM

Someone else has mentioned how "anti-gun rights" stories generate a number of fact based comments. Seems accurate. Same goes for the spot on dubs some folks choose to use. Only four Facebook Verified out of the many who offered comments and opinions.

Q from Oak Park  

Posted: January 19th, 2012 4:41 PM

Guns don't kill people, bullets do. Out law bullets will remove the problem. Besides, now that Obama has inked in the NDAA, there's bigger things for the people who think they are protected under the constitution to own guns should be concerned about. Well I suppose we all should be concerned about why a Democratic, rights to the people, President would sign such a thing. Wall Street protesters, and anyone else thinking about taking to the streets, you have been warned.

Father Knows Best from Middle Class USA  

Posted: January 19th, 2012 4:30 PM

Taking any person who espouses gun cotnrol as a solution to violence seriously is at best comparable to accepting pedophilia as legal activity, completely sickening and immoral. So why not post facts they cant refute and then poke fun at those so ill equipped to face reality and watch as their heads spin round spewing pea green soup in self righteous indignation like the exorcist on the blog. Besides, their is no right not to be criticized for publishing unsubstantiated opinions like Kens.

Info  

Posted: January 19th, 2012 4:28 PM

The last jack burton wasnt fb verified and his name was in lower case.....Hmmmm

Jim Coughlin  

Posted: January 19th, 2012 4:15 PM

Someone else has mentioned how "gun rights" stories generate a number of off-the-wall comments. Seems accurate. Same goes for the wacky dubs some folks choose to use. Only four Facebook Verified out of the many who offered comments and opinions.

Lucifer from Hades  

Posted: January 19th, 2012 3:52 PM

Now that there is cruel and unusual punishment even by the Devils standards!

@ Sigmund Freud  

Posted: January 19th, 2012 3:34 PM

He's curled up in the corner of Ken Trainors basement watching Michael Moore movies.

R Lee Emery from SGT USMC  

Posted: January 19th, 2012 3:31 PM

You must be from Illinois, as theres only two things come from Illinois, steers and lying politicians who think guns can shoot. This is your rifle, this is your gun, your rifle is a wonderful piece of engineering genius designed to defend your life WHEN NECESSARY while God gave you your gun. One is for shooting one is for fun. If you are too stupid to understand that then you must be the worst of the worst, an Oak Park IL politician!

@ Sigmund Freud  

Posted: January 19th, 2012 3:31 PM

He's curled up in the corner of Ken Trainor's basement watching Michael Moore movies.

Sigmund Freud from Bellview   

Posted: January 19th, 2012 3:24 PM

My poor dear fellow, Fetishism is the belief that an inanimate object possess supernatural powers to load, aim, and pull the trigger all by themself. The advanced stage of such fetishism is where the ill patient believes the inanimate object using its voice and esp can command a person close to them to commit a violent crime. Fortunately we have most of you locked up for public safety for being the loveable schizophrenics you are. Where are you at so we can come get you?

Edgar Hoover from FBI  

Posted: January 19th, 2012 3:19 PM

Breaking News! The 1 in 5 Aemricans identified as mentally ill have all ACTUALLY been found to be members of a previously unknown communist sleeper agent cell specializing in subversive propaganda. Their leader, code named "The Czarist" has been located somewhere near Oak Park IL posing as a News Editor. Approach with caution as he is known to spew vitriol and fear mongering. This editor is normally accompanied by several henchmen who believe inanimate objects are alive.

lmao@idiots  

Posted: January 19th, 2012 3:12 PM

Accepting, in arguendo, his manufactured premise, we see here gun fetishist Jack Burton equating the failure to incarcerate the criminals with the people being killed by guns. More evidence that the gun fetishists are too addle-brained to be allowed to own weapons.

GUNZ KILL  

Posted: January 19th, 2012 3:08 PM

Guns KILL innocent people at alarming rates. Have you heard? Oak Park is the next door neighbor to one of the murder capital's (Chicago) of the Nation.

jack burton  

Posted: January 19th, 2012 2:30 PM

info sez: For every story of a gun saving someones life there are 5 where the innocent victim loses their life because of gun. GUNS have no place in this society. Jack replies: For every story of the 4th or 5th Amendment saving an innocent person from jail there are 5 where an obviously guilty person avoids justice and jail by using those Amendments in his favor. The 4th and 5th Amendment apparently have no place in this society by the philosophy of "info".

@l Info  

Posted: January 19th, 2012 1:54 PM

It was the coldest day of this winter.

Info  

Posted: January 19th, 2012 1:48 PM

No shootings or murders in city for 24-hour period on Wednesday January 19, 2012 11:20AM. "On January 18, for a 24-hour period, there were no shootings and murders in the city of Chicago," McCarthy said. "The last time we went a day without a murder or shooting was nearly a year ago in early 2011. This is clearly the result of the tremendous police work of the men and women of the Chicago Police Department.

Laughing  

Posted: January 19th, 2012 12:48 PM

Geo DUCK! Bullets flying everywhere. People dying all over this nation from getting shot by idiots.

George Washington from Valley Forge  

Posted: January 19th, 2012 12:37 PM

Sir if you may recall, the writings of our declartion of independence were the forming of a consitutional republic. There is a difference which all true Americans are still trying to keep in order to avoid the newest group of Colonel Benedict Arnolds, enemy sympathizer, from taking over our government.

The Road To Hell  

Posted: January 19th, 2012 12:16 PM

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship."

Tom from Oak Park  

Posted: January 19th, 2012 12:11 PM

@ OP Rez, Oak Parks handgun ban was lifted over a year ago, I find it funny that the first full year with no handgun ban and we already have lowest crime rate in over 39 years you know why that is criminals don't like to break into peoples homes that can now defend themselfs, So your welcome OP Rez.

OP Rez  

Posted: January 19th, 2012 11:49 AM

Oak Park hasnt had guns for over 10 years. So I'm happy to report that Oak Park 2011 crime rate at 39-year low!!!! All without guns to defend ourselves. Imagine that.

Alan Gottleib from SAF  

Posted: January 19th, 2012 11:09 AM

Oh how soon you forget, several actually happened the same week the SAF kicked Daley's butt in the McDonald vs Chicago case June 2010. That 80 yeard old army veteran, and that 60 something store owner. Both were surprised by a bad guy who shot first, both retrieved their "illegal firearms" and killed the bad guys. Funny how the intended victims were never prosecuted, even though they had to break the law in order to defend themselves. Where were the police to protect them?

Safety Officer from IOSHA Headquarters  

Posted: January 19th, 2012 11:05 AM

Oh by the way,refusing to acknowledge the government data that 80% of all violent crimes are committed by career criminals/gang members, or that 76-80% of all shootings in CHICAGO per the police study, are where both shooter and injured are engaged in a criminal act, we must assume your affiliated with gangs and are attempting to change their working conditions to be safe from being shot while they are committing their crimes.

Bill Engvall from Blue Collar Comedy Tour  

Posted: January 19th, 2012 11:02 AM

Duh law abiding citizens are disarmed in Chicago so where would any stories of them defending themselves exist? Heres your sign!

law abiding citizen from oak park  

Posted: January 19th, 2012 10:13 AM

Info, Please state where your stats are coming from on the 1 in 5 thing. The reason you aren't finding any articles about a gun saving someone in Chicago is because they were banned for 40 years. Please research before spewing nonsense.

Info  

Posted: January 19th, 2012 8:53 AM

John Kass: "The only muscle the Outfit cares about, really, is the one found in the index finger of the human hand."

Info  

Posted: January 19th, 2012 8:48 AM

Grossley, of the 4000 block of West Maypole Avenue, was also charged with a single count of aggravated assault with a firearm for threatening someone with a handgun and two counts of aggravated criminal sexual assault after he attacked two of his victims after robbing them, police sources said..............................................Though he has number of petty arrests dating back to 2006, including one misdemeanor conviction, Grossley has no felony convictions, according to court records.

Info  

Posted: January 19th, 2012 8:46 AM

Man shot in head, critically hurt in Marquette Park Updated 4:20 a.m. West Side man tied to 8 robberies, 2 sex assaults Updated 4:45 a.m.

Info  

Posted: January 19th, 2012 8:43 AM

Not seeing any of those "my gun saved me" stories from Chicago. All the stories I posted are daily stories right here where we live. For every story of a gun saving someones life there are 5 where the innocent victim loses their life because of gun. GUNS have no place in this society.

OP Resident  

Posted: January 19th, 2012 8:14 AM

Wow, all this insanity over a store that's selling more limited inventory than you can buy in any other community around Oak Park. If I wanted a rifle, even a handgun, (and I don't) I could buy one across the street from Caputo's. I'm therefore guessing there won't be any more or less guns in Oak Park as a result of this store, but there WILL be more tax revenues. I guess we'd rather pay the lost revenue on our property taxes. Build a tax base, but not THAT tax base. Cuckoo, cuckoo...

Joe Gun Owner  

Posted: January 19th, 2012 7:30 AM

I guess the 49 other states on the matter must be wrong. Maybe we should outlaw pens as they too could be a dangerous weapon. Or how about hammers? Illinois will soon join the ranks and Oak Park will have to deal with it.

Joe Friday from Dragnet  

Posted: January 19th, 2012 5:27 AM

Mam, can you help us some more as we calculated from the simple math that by that government data, there were over 548,346 times shots were fired. We now see 548,346 / 15% x 1 = total incidents where a firearm was used in a violent crime = over 3 million incidents. Remember mam, 70% of violent crimes did not get reported. Mam, do you believe the USDOJ, led by Eric Holder is pro gun, didnt think so. Remember mam, we are only talking about violent crimes, not all those dgu's by civilians.

Joe Friday from Dragnet  

Posted: January 19th, 2012 5:22 AM

I am sorry to say mam, facts are police only hit their intended target 15% of the time we are required to shoot. Are you claiming the criminals are better shots never missing? We worry only about the facts mam, havent seen any data supporting that! Mam, you do know there were 12,252 homicides and over 70k injuries from these violent crimes. Mam, we are a little weak on the math, what does 82,252 total injuries / 15% =1% of shots hit x 100=total number of shots fired?

Joe Friday from Dragnet  

Posted: January 19th, 2012 5:17 AM

Mam, you do realize that over 70% of all violent crimes committed are never reported to police! USDOJ National Victimization report 2008 http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/cv08.pdf You do realize that in only 15% of incidents involving a fiream either police or crimnal activity is a shot fired! http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=940 http://www.virginiacops.org/Articles/Shooting/Combat.htm http://www.theppsc.org/Staff_Views/Aveni/OIS.pdf

Joe Friday from Dragnet  

Posted: January 19th, 2012 5:08 AM

Were just interested in the facts ma'm. These police incident reports, collated from just one website mam, when reviewed with 3 others (KC3, Armed Citizen, American Rifleman) of many other similar webites, average 80 per month. Mam, the police are not owned or managed by anyone, so these police incident reports are the truth. Mam, you do realize that these police incident reports only reflect the number of incidents which involve injuries or those actually reported to police!

Joe Friday from Dragnet  

Posted: January 19th, 2012 5:04 AM

Same website MPD Says Burglar Shot and Wounded Friday (MS) Deputies: Suspect shot dead in home invasion (CA) After Bark Alerts Wife, Husband Kills Thanksgiving Intruder (PA) Second Man Arrested In Deadly Home Invasion (CO) Local resident captures midnight burglar (OK) Police: Stabbing at Saginaw Township apartment in self defense; man charged with torture of girlfriend (MI) Homeowner steps up: shoots suspected burglar in the back (TX) Homeowner wounds alleged burglar; Deputies: No charges ex

Joe Friday from Dragnet  

Posted: January 19th, 2012 5:03 AM

Same website Merrimack woman with gun thwarts home invasion (NH) Home invasion leads to melee, death (OR) Man shot after he follows another man home (TX) Homeowner Holds Suspect at Gunpoint (NC) Washington homeowner shoots intruder (WA) Homeowner Shoots Would-Be Robber (TN) Video: Storeowner shoots would-be robber (CT) Bad Law Enforcement Advice of the Day: Colorado Springs Edition (CO) Police: Phoenix mom kills backyard intruder (AZ) Retired Officer Fires Fatal Shot During Break-In (MI)

Joe Friday from Dragnet  

Posted: January 19th, 2012 5:01 AM

Same website Investigators try to determine if a fatal Montgomery County shooting was justified (PA) Magalia man shot to death after forcing way into home (CA) Reno police say resident shoots intruder twice and puts him in the hospital (NV) Armed husband stops suspected car thief (CA) ldham County Shooter Claims Self-Defense (KY) Richmond Man Says He Shot Burglar in Self Defense (KY) Robbery: Two charged with manslaughter after victim shoots their accomplices, police say (AK)

Joe Friday from Dragnet  

Posted: January 19th, 2012 5:00 AM

Same website Home Invader Who Was Wearing Body Armor, Shot, Killed (NC) DGU Puts Kroger in a Jam Over Employee Gun Policy (IN) Wife Shoots Homeless Squatter Who Attacked Husband (SC) Pistol-packing mayor draws heat (AL) Man stabbed to death after breaking into home (KY) Aloha couple wakes up to man beating them with tiki torch (OR) 2 shot in gunfire exchange at coney island on Detroit's west side (MI)

Joe Friday from Dragnet  

Posted: January 19th, 2012 4:57 AM

Same website Las Vegas Pawn Shop Employee Shoots, Kills Armed Robber (NV) Armed neighbor stops burglary (TX) Home invasion ends with suspect's stabbing (WA) Blanchard woman shoots and kills intruder (OK) Wendy's Employee Shoots, Kills 1 of 2 Armed Robbers (GA) Teenager Shoots, Kills Home Invader With Shotgun (TN) Fort Worth Woman Shoots & Kills Home Intruder (TX) Couple Shoots At, Captures Intruder On Drugs (OR) Retired Police Officer Shoots Career Criminal/Home Invader (MI)

Joe Friday from Dragnet  

Posted: January 19th, 2012 4:56 AM

Same website Dyer man shoots at suspected police impostor (IN) Syracuse police: Armed robber meets armed store clerk; clerk wins (NY) Homeowner Confronts Car Thief, Shoots Thief Once After Altercation (AL) Woman Shoots Ex-Boyfriend Who Broke Into Her Home In the Face (OH) 90 Year Old Retired Sheriff's Deputy and WW2 Pilot Shoots Intruder (CA) 7-11 Clerk Shoots, Wounds Armed Robber Who Was Then Caught (VA) Police: 84-year-old man kills intruder (9-1-1 audio available) (OH)

Joe Friday from Dragnet  

Posted: January 19th, 2012 4:54 AM

Sane website Business Owner Shoots One of Six Burglars, Others Captured (OK) Store Clerk Ends Armed Robbery With A Single Gunshot (NC) Visitor Shoots, Kills One of Several Home Invaders (TX) Homeowner at Home w/ Daughter Shoots Home Invader Through Door (TX) Woman Pepper Sprayed By Home Invader, Gets Gun, Shoots Back (MO) Alleged burglar fatally shot by homeowner in South Everett (WA) National Guardsman thwarts Red Line robbery; 3 teens arrested (IL)

Joe Friday from Dragnet  

Posted: January 19th, 2012 4:53 AM

Same website 'I just shot the man': Boy, 14, kills intruder after gang of FOUR men try to break into house where he was home alone with his sister Tampa FL Homeowner Shoots at Home Invader (FL) Three Armed Men Try To Rob Bar, One is Shot, Killed by Customer (VA) Defensive Gun Use of the Day: Adan Duran (CA) Jewelry Store Clerk Shoots At Heavily Armed Robbers (FL) Shooting by ex-deputy sparks debate on "Stand your ground" law (FL) Burglar Was Interrupted By Family, Shot in Foot (ME)

Joe Friday from Dragnet  

Posted: January 19th, 2012 4:51 AM

More, same website Gun Carrier Shoots at Impostor Police Officer (IN) Homeowner Shoots 1 Burglar, Captures Another (IN) Cleveland restaurateur with concealed handgun license forced to shoot man who threatened employees with two handguns (OH) National Guardsman Pulls Gun On, Captures Three Teenage Robbers (IL) Homeowner Shoots Rifle Wielding Home Invader w/ Shotgun (TX)

Joe Friday  

Posted: January 19th, 2012 4:49 AM

Keep & Bear Arms, collated police incident reports %u2022 Columbus homeowner shoots alleged home invader (GA) %u2022 Houston, TX Resident Shoots & Kills One of Two Armed Home Invaders (TX) %u2022 Homeowner Shoots Intruder With a .22 (PA) %u2022 15 Yr Old Texas Girl Scares Off Two Burglars With Her Dad's Gun (TX) %u2022 Mother shoots, kills son during bedroom assault (NC) %u2022 82 Year Old Homeowner Shoots & Kills Mask Man w/ WW2 Gun (FL) %u2022 Don't Mess With South Carolina Women (SC)

Info  

Posted: January 19th, 2012 3:13 AM

3rd man convicted of 10-year-old's slaying.10:50 p.m. CST, January 18, 2012.A third man was convicted late Wednesday in a 2008 shooting that killed a 10-year-old girl in the city's South Chicago neighborhood.

Info  

Posted: January 19th, 2012 3:10 AM

Family of gunman in 4 killings never foresaw violence Updated 9:39 p.m.

Info  

Posted: January 19th, 2012 3:08 AM

One in five Americans mentally ill in past year: study Updated 12:43 a.m.

Gunz's Mom  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 11:04 PM

Is that a gun in your pocket, or are you just happy to see me?

Doctorz Kill  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 9:24 PM

That equals .065 to .14 per physician. Using simple math, a Physician is .065 or .14 /.00000562 = 12,000 to 25,000 times more likely to harm you than a CPL holder. So where is the risk from concealed carry holders and why aren't you antis crying to ban doctors? Maybe someone should report Gunz Kill to child protective services for exposing her children to such a risk, how irresponsible you are!

Doctorz Kill  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 9:21 PM

ATF Max 8 million CPL's US, approximately 186 million age 21 or older or 4.3% of the people licensed for CPL. Possible deaths from CPL holders in 3 year time span from VPC report 2009, 137 or 45 per year equals .00000562 per concealed license holder. Review Florida's data on CCW at http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/stats/cw_monthly.html it says the same thing. JAMA http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/286/4/415 700k doctors US kill 44k to 98k by medical malpractice every year.

Dr Regina Benjamin, Surgeon General from Wasington D.C.  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 9:14 PM

Woe is me, we medical professionals have failed to prove firearms are a sentient being. We have failed to prove guns can load, aim and fire itself, so the best we can do is keep the lies going. My autocratic rule of the health industry is at an end, since my believing a firearm can control people by voice commands, I have been committed to a special health facility for the public safety as being a schizophrenic, after all, I MUST OBEY WHAT THE VOICES IN MY HEAD TELL ME TO DO!

Jack Burton  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 9:03 PM

gunz sez: Republicans are for capital punishment but against abortion? Hmmmm And carry guns to kill people, if needed? Who favors life more? Jack replies: Poor gunz. Too intellectually incapable of telling the difference between a criminal convicted of a most heinious crime by a jury though the established legal system of the country and an innocent baby ripped from the supposed secure enviromrent mother's womb for "convenience". That level of stupidity is downright pitiful.

Charles Daley, Chief Nazi from Chicago  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 8:56 PM

PSST, Dont tell Daley as he may try to come back and rule Chicago! Police studies in Chicago and NYC where between 76-80% of those involved in shootings, both shooter and injured were both involved in criminal activity at the time of the incident. www.popcenter.org/problems/drive_by_shooting/PDFs/Block_and_Block_1993.pdf, www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/downloads/pdf/public_information/2007_firearms_discharge_report.pdf, www.nyclu.org/files/nypd_firearms_report_102207.pdf

Eric Holder from Washington D.C.  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 8:53 PM

The government acknowledges in USDOJ National Gang Threat Assessment 2009 that 80% of all violent crimes committed in the US each year are committed by career criminals/gang members. http://www.justice.gov/ndic/pubs32/32146/index.htm But Gunz Kill has data to refute my United Staes Department of Justic data. Please forward your government sanctioned data so we can correct our obvious expert data. If it is not government data, we will deny having ever contacted you!

Less Gunz More violence from London  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 8:48 PM

1997-2009 Australia 629 VCR per 100k to 1,024 VCR per 100k, a 32 person reduction in murders by firearms, exactly replaced by murders with knives.Trend was mirrored in England (ref AIC.GOV) Canada 980 VCR per 100k people to 1,324 VCR per 100k people, murder rose from 560 to 610 (Ref Statcan) Canada $2 billion dollar plus registry, NO crime solved. England 820 VCR per 100k people to 1,667 VCR per 100k murders same as 1997. (ref Home Office UK) Less gunz doesnt = less violence

More Guns Less Violence from Rockford  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 8:44 PM

All while at the same time we see 13-16 more states implementing concealed carry to 49 states total, and 35 states implementing concealed carry in eateries that serve alcohol. 4 states and 72 universities implemented concealed carry. All without the predicted and much cried about blood baths predicted by such pundits as Gunz Kill suggests for oh what, something like the millionth time, yep.

More Gunz Less Violence from Rockford  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 8:43 PM

US Census, and NSSF & PEW surveys, that in 2009 40% of households have a firearm. An increase since 1997 of 9 million households to 80 million law abiding gun owners as recognized by the BATF. Since 1997 per FBI UCR, that violent crime has gone from 611 VCR (Violent Crime Reported) per 100k people to 429 VCR per 100k people in 2009. That is a 30% reduction in violent crime. Did we forget to mention that the same data shows a 20% reduction in murder. cont

GUNZ KILL  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 7:35 PM

Republicans are for capital punishment but against abortion? Hmmmm And carry guns to kill people, if needed? Who favors life more?

Patrick Henry  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 7:03 PM

Hey Lord Trainor, the war is over, you lost. Hand over your Red Coat now.

Patriot From The North  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 6:36 PM

PS: Gun ownership cannot be "revoked", someone FOID can be revoked but only for things like domestic violence, drug use and other felonies. I cringe to think that a group of bureaucrats on a "health board" would think they have the right to revoke "any' right guaranteed by the Constitution. @ Ken you better thank god that you have the right to free speech and freedom of the press under the first amendment. Would you give those same bureaucrats the right to deny your freedom of the press?

Patriot From The North  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 6:30 PM

@ Idea #3 What a wrongheaded statement. How about taxes on publications such as this one, who's wrongheaded ideas endanger the constitutional rights of every single American citizen living in Oak Park. How about we institute stiff taxes on news papers and other online publications, for their dangerous abuse of the first amendment? This damned thing called the constitution and its second amendment guarantee the right to bear arms, the same as the first amendment protects freedom of the press.

Brendan  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 4:06 PM

I once yelled at a guy next to me on a plane to get off his cell phone because the plane was ready for take off. The nerve he had putting me in harms way. Unfortunately the plane stopped because of a delay and we were on the tarmac for an hour. It was now necessary that I borrow his phone and I was sure glad he had it.

Jack Burton  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 3:57 PM

gunz sez: The funny thing is Gun loving people are usually republicans who favor LIFE? Jack replies: The funny thing is Gunz is taking the same identical position as rapists, muggers, mass killers, white-sheeted bigots, terrorists, gay bashers and anti-Semites, while Republicans are taking the position that allows innocent people to defend themselves. It's pretty easy to see which side is actually interested in "favoring life."

Jack Burton  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 3:54 PM

gunz sez: Sorry Ray, one death is too many Jack replies: So gunz is demanding the disamenment of all police officers in the United States since more than one has purposefully killed an innocent person with his official police gun. Wow... that's pretty radical of even you, gunz.

Jack Burton  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 3:52 PM

gunz sez: Guns save the day- Of course. Wake up to your nonsense! Jack replies: Let's ask this lady if a gun "saved the day" for her...http://www.kfor.com/news/kfor-blanchard-woman-shoots-and-kills-intruder-20120101,0,2752550.story... or this young teen girl... http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/local&id=8505733 ... is gunz glad that she "saved the day?"

Jack Burton  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 3:47 PM

gunz sez: I'm sure her gun inside her purse will do her alot of good if the attacker can get to her in 2 seconds. Jack replies: And just what makes you think she is as situationally unaware as you are? And that she doesn't already have her hand on the gun (in the holster where it belongs -- not in a purse ). You commenting on the ability and strategy of others to defend themselves is like a PETA member giving fishing instructions. Please tell us just where you learned your self defense with firearm techniques. gunz sez: Keep bringing the losing ideology to the table. Jack replies: Errr... YOU are the one who prefers to see the lady raped... I think the readers know which one has a losing ideology. guns sez: Does the rapist have a gun too? Jack replies: That reminds us, you're the one who was attempting to make the claim earlier that no one was ever raped before guns were invented. gunz sez: Back to everything is gonna be all right becasue guns will save her. Jack replies: There ya go again, Dear Readers. gunz doesn't give a damn if the woman is "saved" as long as she didn't use to gun to do so.

Ray Simpson from Oak Park  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 3:44 PM

Gunz - if a potential victim happens to be armed and prevents his own murder that doesn't count? You believe guns are a root cause for violence and mans inhumanity toward his fellow man. Think about a society without guns - prison comes to mind. Your philosophy says that should be the safest place on earth - sorry - you can try it out I will take a pass.

Just asking...  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 3:32 PM

Is Mr. Trainor going to indemnify the taxpayers when his ideas, serious and otherwise, get OP sued (again)? Haven't we been down this road before and lost? Guessing he does not have the cajones to put his money where his mouth is....

GUNZ KILL CAN'T READ  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 3:19 PM

Gunz, never said nukes ended war. Just that they are smaller than they were previously. Can't you read?

GUNZ KILL  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 3:07 PM

This isnt about politics either. The funny thing is Gun loving people are usually republicans who favor LIFE?

GUNZ KILL  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 3:06 PM

Luke abortion has nothing to do with guns.

Luke ScottWalker from Oak Park  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 3:01 PM

GUNZ...my earlier question still stands...."GUNZ says "The value of a human life is above all other." Well, GUNZ, for the record and because I'm curious, care to state your position on abortion?"

Ray Simpson from Oak Park  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 2:56 PM

Parks 207 - how did you slip onto the Supreme Court without us noticing? You interpret the constitution the way you see it and they said you are wrong - - sorry!

GUNZ KILL  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 2:55 PM

Sorry Ray, one death is too many.

Ray Simpson from Oak Park  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 2:51 PM

Gunz - The bad guys see what you and others represent as the will of our community and figure it is a ground for easy picking. If an in-determined number of our citizens might be armed they would probably go elsewhere. FYI Prof John Lott (University of Chicago and author of "More Guns Less Crime")believed, as you do, until he gathered the data and now is a strong advocate for gun ownership. You are trying to present heartfelt feelings as true data and we are not buying it - sorry!

Barry Hirsh from Miami FL  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 2:49 PM

Simple, really. Get outta the way and let me alone. If you don't want to own or carry guns, then don't. You have no right to make that choice for me, or for anyone else. Here's a clue, since you appear to be clueless: The exercise of fundamental rights is not subject to majority approval. In other words, you are free to dislike it all you want, but you are not free to make me do what you want. It is now settled law. Get used to it. Or not.

Parks207 from Kyle  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 2:35 PM

"The Supreme Court ruling is wrong" and "since the amendment so clearly states that being a member of a well-regulated militia is critical to the right to bear arms" You're talking out of the side of your face. You're ignorant of both history, The Constitution and facts.

GUNZ KILL  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 2:27 PM

Guns save the day- Of course. Wake up to your nonsense!

GUNZ KILL  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 2:26 PM

"Notwithstanding the fact that the thug can cover 30 feet in well less than 2 seconds...." I'm sure her gun inside her purse will do her alot of good if the attacker can get to her in 2 seconds. Keep bringing the losing ideology to the table. Does the rapist have a gun too? Back to everything is gonna be all right becasue guns will save her.

Jack Burton  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 2:13 PM

gunz sez: Guns solve nothing. When people break the law, punish them. Guns are false sense of security to those that are paranoid. Jack replies: We are still waiting to read your post stating that if someone is breaking into your home late at night you're going to demand the 911 operator tell the police to leave their guns at the station house before they come to investigate.

Jack Burton  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 2:12 PM

gunz sez: No wars since the big WWI and WWII? Jack replies: Gee, gunz, if someone actually said that you might have a point. But since no one posted that it is just another example of things that you make up from thin air.

Jack Burton  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 2:10 PM

gunz sez: Jack, I turn around and kick or punch someone who holds a knife up to me Jack replies... uh...no... I said you could not answer from fantasy land. You don't know that he is "behind" you the same as the person who gets shot in YOUR STORY in the back of the head also doesn't know. And now you want to change it, eh. The gun is FIRED but the knife is merely "held up." Nice try at changing it around and if you were writing to first graders it might work. Gunz sez : With a gun I dont have much of a chance. Jack replies: YOU probably don't since you have no clue as to how to use a gun. But a five year old riding a tricycle probably can't drive a Chevy either but that doesn't mean that adults can't do it. We adults know how to use guns to defend ourselves. Gunz sez: As for the lady in the parking lot, she takes out her cell phone and calls 911 form 30 feet away Jack replies: Okay, Dear Readers... here is gunz in all her glory. Notwithstanding the fact that the thug can cover 30 feet in well less than 2 seconds, gunz really, in her heart, just plain doesn't care what happens to the women in the parking lot. Let's say by some miracle the lady got a call off to 911 in the two seconds it took to reach her... and she communicated a coherent message... We all know there is not a cop ten feet away... or even 100 feet away. The lady could be forced into a van... could be dragged into an alley.. could be raped on the spot... could lose her life. But gunz simply doesn't care. At all. All she cares about is that the lady didn't have a gun with her. Get past that point and gunz is ready to write the lady off as just another "crap happens to people."

GUNZ KILL  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 2:03 PM

Guns solve nothing. When people break the law, punish them. Guns are false sense of security to those that are paranoid.

GUNZ KILL  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 2:00 PM

No wars since the big WWI and WWII? Ha. I guess we just spent Trillions of dollars on nothing. Fighting is taking place all over the World right now. Is Iran wanting to build a Nuke to become more of a friend or an enemy? Why is the world unarming ourselves?

Jack Burton  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 1:59 PM

Every example I cited happens today to innocent people. Take guns out of the equation and they would no longer be a problem. Easy. Jack replies: Here are some other headlines from the past few days which "happened to innocent people." --- TX: de family claims SAPD officers beat their father --- IL: Deputy U.S. marshal indicted in Chicago for alleged civil rights violations --- NY: Plea Deal for Officer Accused of Civil Rights Violation --- NY: NYPD suspects veteran officer Monty Green moonlighting as a pimp --- TX: Off-duty Katy officer fired after DWI crash kills a mother, son--- LA: LPSO: Deputy accused of molesting juvenile --- TN: Officer accused of fraud --- Now... based upon Gunz philosophy the best way to protect "innocent" people is to do away with police officers. There is simply no other conclusion to draw about her thoughts on this subject.

Mares  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 1:57 PM

@ Jack Burton. LOL. We both posted at the same time in response to GUNZ KIL "fire" qoute. We each had a different, but correct, take on it. Take care.

GUNZ KILL  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 1:54 PM

Jack, I turn around and kick or punch someone who holds a knife up to me and demands my money. With a gun I dont have much of a chance. As for the lady in the parking lot, she takes out her cell phone and calls 911 form 30 feet away.

Question  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 1:52 PM

For those that support the rights of persons to own guns, do you believe in or support limitations to those rights? I mean such as a waiting period, assault weapons ban, etc. I'm not looking to trick anyone into a particular answer although I'm certain if you respond that it will prompt others. I happen to believe in the rights of someone to own guns but that there are limits to those rights. I'm curious how far apart we may be on this. Thanks.

Mares  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 1:52 PM

@ GUNZ KILL, 1:20 p.m. post "Fighting fire with fire never works" Wrong again. It's called a "backfire" and is used in fighting forest fires.

Jack Burton  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 1:52 PM

gunz sez: Fighting fire with fire never work Jack replies: Tell that to the freed slaves of the Civil War... or the Jews of Germany in 1946. Or to the policeman who comes to investigate a noise at your home at night. Gunz sez: especially with gun violence today. Jack replies: I have known thousands of guns personally and I have never, ever, met one that had a violent nature. Please share with us which guns you think, like pit dogs, are particularly prone to violence by themselves. gunz sez: More guns will NEVER lead to less gun violence. Who ever thinks that is mistaken. Jack replies: This is a statement of "fact" by gunz, kind of like 2 plus 2 equals 4. Either gunz is right in his fact... or she is wrong. In this case... she is dead wrong. Here's a little bit to show her... but as I noted earlier... she is akin to a flat earther... no amount of actual "facts" will affect her emotional reasoning at all http://abcnewspapers.com/2012/01/18/one-bright-spot-in-the-current-struggling-economy/ Gunz sez: The world is NOT a more peaceful place because we all have stock pills of nuclear bombs that could destroy the earth 10 times over. jack replies: Just prior to the development of nukes we had two major wars spanning the globe. In the past 70 years we've had zero major wars spanning the globe. Gunz sez: The world will be a more peaceful place when we disarm ourselve/ Jack replies: Feel free... my kids will thank you and your kids for making yourself easier prey for the thugs and muggers. It makes my kids safer in the long run.

CARZ KILL  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 1:42 PM

@GUNZ KILL: How many World Wars have we had since the advent of nukes? ZERO. All the wars since the advent of nukes have been small scale in comparison to WWI and WWII.

Jack Burton  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 1:41 PM

Gunz sez: If someone approaches me with a knife, I would have a a much better chance than the nano second it takes them to pull the trigger on the gun. Jack replies: And just HOW is this "much better chance" going to happen when someone sticks you from BEHIND (your scenerio, you have to abide by your own rules here.) Be realistic. In other words, don't give us a fantasy answer. Gunz sez: You have to be close to kill me with a knife, but 20 to 30 feet with a gun. Hmmmmm. jack replies: Isn't is great that the 120 lb secretary crossing the parking lot at night doesn't have to wait until the 250 lb. rapist has her around the neck in a choke hold but she can defend herself when he is still many feet away and approching. Why do you hate women so much you desire to deny them that choice?

GUNZ KILL  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 1:36 PM

Just imagine if Heorin was LEGAl. Same goes for guns. Legal= more gun violence. Illegal= less gun violence.

GUNZ KILL  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 1:34 PM

Every example I cited happens today to innocent people. Take guns out of the equation and they would no longer be a problem. Easy.

GUNZ KILL comedy hour  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 1:33 PM

Right, and take away all the heroin and heroin deaths go to zero. Oh wait, the government already made it illegal and has a 25 year old war on drugs but heroin use is still a significant issue to society. Hmmm. I guess this logic stuff doesn't always work.

Tom from Oak Park  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 1:31 PM

Ok Gunz it's time to leave Hogwarts fantasy land and come back to reality.

GUNZ KILL  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 1:25 PM

Tom, what about when your not home? What about when you family member gets robbed at gun point at the bus stop? What about when your house gets shot up from the street? What about your own neighbor shooting you on accident when the bullet flys through your window?

GUNZ KILL  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 1:20 PM

Fighting fire with fire never works, especially with gun violence today. More guns will NEVER lead to less gun violence. Who ever thinks that is mistaken. The world is NOT a more peaceful place because we all have stock pills of nuclear bombs that could destroy the earth 10 times over. The world will be a more peaceful place when we disarm ourselves.

Tom from Oak Park  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 1:17 PM

Banning guns will not stop criminals from using them, has it work in the past with other things lets see drugs are ban how's that working out, what about alcohol during prohibition that didn't work, how about child porn not stoping it, kidnapping still happens everyday. I refuse to be a victim in my own house from someone wishing to do me and my family harm I choose to own a gun just like you choose not to Gunz.

GUNZ KILL  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 1:17 PM

Larry, not just becasue people die. Innocent people die from guns. Banning cigarettes would also be a good thing. we are getting closer everyday. Jack, If someone approaches me with a knife, I would have a a much better chance than the nano second it takes them to pull the trigger on the gun. You have to be close to kill me with a knife, but 20 to 30 feet with a gun. Hmmmmm.

CARZ KILL  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 1:11 PM

See that kid in Bridgeport get robbed and beat up in the alley? Where were the cops to protect him? We need Mandatory Concealed Carry in OP before it happens here!

CARZ KILL  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 1:09 PM

Apparently Trainor, Gunz Kill (probably one and the same), the Pope and Ms. Provost-Fyfe would have allowed this widowed mother and her 3 month old to die than allow the mother to use a gun for protection... http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/04/mom-kills-intruder_n_1183336.html...meanwhile, I am getting emails from neighbors detailing the rampant house breakin scheme being employed in SOP these days...

Jack Burton  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 1:02 PM

Gunz. Out of curiousity, just how much "say" do you have if someone sticks a knife into your ribs from behind? or clubs you over the head with a crowbar from behind? Or tosses you in front of a bus from behind? Do you have a lot of "say"? A little? Some "say"? None at all? I would really like to know.

CARZ KILL  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 1:02 PM

We all know that cars kill more people than guns do! Ban cars! People do not kill people....Cars do!

Jack Burton  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 1:00 PM

Gunz sez: take the guns away from rapists and they wont have as easy a time raping someone Jack Replies: Yes, we all know that there were very few, isolated incidences of rape in the centuries before guns were invented. Ya see, Dear Readers, ~this~ kind of comment by gunz is the very best the anti-freedom people can come up with. No logic... no reason... not a single thought behind it... just pure emotional drivel that even a first grader would be ashamed to turn into a teacher for an assignment.

Larry Dantonio from Berwyn, Illinois  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 12:55 PM

Gunz, it is your choice to smoke as it is my choice to own a gun. But if you want the government to ban guns because people die we should ban cigarettes because people die also. And It costs all of us more money in Health care and insurance because of. Me owning a gun costs you nothing.

GUNZ KILL  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 12:46 PM

Larry its my choice to smoke or not. Thankfully its not someones right to smoke around me where it can affect my health. I dont have much say when it comes to a person who sticks a gun to the back of my head and pulls the trigger senselessly.

GUNZ KILL  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 12:43 PM

No Jack, it means take the guns away from rapists and they wont have as easy a time raping someone. All the diseases that are high on the list are preventable for the most part by ones own doing. Innocent people who are murdered by people who use guns is not apples to apples.

Luke ScottWalker from Oak Park  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 12:41 PM

GUNZ says "The value of a human life is above all other." Well, GUNZ, for the record and because I'm curious, care to state your position on abortion?

Mares  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 12:37 PM

GUNZ KILL, you go it right. Let's also disarm the Secret Service. Mayor Emanuel, Gov. Quinn and Mike Madigan's bodyguards.

Larry Dantonio from Berwyn, Illinois  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 12:35 PM

Here is some Lung Cancer numbers for you. New cases of lung cancer: 221,130 Males: 115,060 Females: 106,070 Deaths from lung cancer: 156,940 Males: 85,600 Females: 71,340 Looks way worse that gun deaths

Jack Burton  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 12:35 PM

gunz sez: Take away all guns and gun deaths will be WAYYYYY Down to Zero! Jack replies: We're waiting for you to admit that take away all alcohol and the problems with booze in our society will be WAYYYYY Down to Zero!

Jack Burton  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 12:34 PM

Guns sez: What say you? Jack replies: All people who rape with their johnsons dont have a criminal history of rape. That means most people that do rape are 1st timers(at rape). A lot of good the laws do. You cant lock someone up for 20 years for robbery knowing that they are future rapists? This is such a serious crime that all men should be chemically castrated beginning at the age of 13 and only taken off the medicine for a few weeks when they can prove they have a need to conceive.

Larry Dantonio from Berwyn, Illinois  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 12:31 PM

Gunz, Take away all Cigarettes and I am sure the same is true of Lung cancer, and way more people die of Lung cancer

Larry Dantonio from Berwyn, Illinois  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 12:30 PM

Here is the List. Looks to me like we need to look at heart problems probably sometimes associated with Obesity and Cancer as our biggest concerns. 1 Diseases of heart 2 Malignant neoplasms 3 Chronic lower respiratory diseases 4 Cerebrovascular diseases 5 Accidents (unintentional injuries) 6 Alzheimer's disease 7 Diabetes mellitus 8 Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome and nephrosis 9 Influenza and pneumonia 10 Intentional self-harm (suicide) 11 Septicemia 12 Chronic liver disease and cirrhosis 13 Essential hypertension and hypertensive renal disease 14 Parkinson's disease

GUNZ KILL  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 12:29 PM

Take away all guns and gun deaths will be WAYYYYY Down to Zero!

GUNZ KILL comedy hour  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 12:28 PM

I think you'd agree that a 80 year old Tommy gun kills at least as effectively as what the criminals are using today and if that's all they can get, that's what they will use. You can't erase history or magically make guns disappear, although I'm not surprised if you think you can.

Larry Dantonio from Berwyn, Illinois  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 12:26 PM

According to the Government Murder is not even in the Top 15 anymore. Maybe we should look at things like smoking that causes cancer and Billions of dollars a year in Medical costs. For the first time in almost half a century, homicide has fallen off the list of the nation's top 15 causes of death, bumped by a lung illness that often develops in elderly people who have choked on their food. The 2010 list, released by the government Wednesday, reflects at least two major trends: Murders are down, and deaths from certain diseases are on the rise as the population ages, health authorities said.

GUNZ KILL  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 12:23 PM

How many old time guns are used in crimes? They mostly tend to be newer. Have you ever seen the guns on a table after a sweep or a voluntary gun turn in? How about the guns drug dealers have? Not your grandpa's 38 snub nose.

Jim Coughlin  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 12:21 PM

Will the gun forum be televised via TV6? I'm sure there are folks who would like to attend but may not be able due to family or work obligations. The Supreme Court ruling seems to have eliminated the opportunity for a community to set their own policy regarding regulations and restrictions. The last thing we need is another lawsuit. An advisory referendum would not result in the board taking any action. It would be dismissed as being as irrelevant as the voter supported Living Wage ordinance.

GUNZ KILL comedy hour  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 12:18 PM

The GUNZ KILL comedy hour, it never fails to stir a chuckle at how naive some people are. For better or for worse, guns exist. "No guns means no protection needed from guns???" Nope, all it means is that only the criminals have guns. I'm not pro-gun, but I'm very anti crackpot.

GUNZ KILL  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 12:10 PM

All people who kill with guns dont have a criminal history of murder. That means most people that do murder are 1st timers(at murder). A lot of good the laws do. You cant lock someone up for 20 years for robbery knowing that they are future murderers? What say you?

Jack Burton  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 12:07 PM

Gunz, you remind me of my all-time favorite Bible verse in Genesis where Abel asked his brother, Cain, "Cricky, mate, where'd you get that Glock?"

Jack Burton  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 12:05 PM

Gunz would be a lot more credible if she also came out in favor of a total prohibition against alcohol. The demon rum destroys many more lives, families, and businesses each year than guns could ever begin to accomplish, yet it's freely available to almost anyone who wants it for just a couple of dollars in thousands of locations around her home. It's even advertised on television -- imagine that! So tell us, gunz, are you equally opposed to the selling and drinking of killer alcohol for every single person in the country.

GUNZ KILL  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 12:04 PM

GUNZ KILL just as my name reads. Jack, I'm afraid that's maybe why people want guns, to protect them selves from guns. No guns means no protection needed from guns? The value of a human life is above all other.

Jack Burton  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 12:01 PM

lmao sez: You guys aren't too bright, are you? Jack replies.... well, we are bright enough to know that oak park isn't an isolated island floating off somewhere in the middle of the Pacific all by itself, but is a part of the United States, and bound by the same Consitution as the rest of the country. By gosh, it is even connectted, as much as you hate to admit it, by actual "roads" that go to and fro from other communities.

GUNZ KILL  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 11:59 AM

Ray I am NOT in favor of a "different way of doing harm" I dont support any one doing any harm at any time. Legal guns end up in criminal hands and do MORE HARM than any LEGAL good! Take for example the people who are just and legal in owning a gun and then commit crimes. It happens. The kid from Virgina Tech used his legal right to purchase his weapons of choice and we all the what happened.

Jack Burton  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 11:57 AM

Guns is akin to a flat eather... facts just simply don't matter to her. And as a note... I lost both my grandfathers, and a brother in law, to shots fired from a gun. I've had numerous occasions where guns were pointed at me by bad guys with intent to do me harm. But by Gunz logic, the hammer that builds an orphanage is just as guilty as the hammer that builds a torture chamber. The printing press that prints the Bible is just as guilty as the press that prints child pornography. It's all the same. The surgeon's scalpal is the same instrument used the same way by the surgeon as the mugger with a switchblade terrorizing a little old lady. No difference in her mind.

Mares  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 11:55 AM

GUNZ KILL, your right. Let's start disarming the police right now.

Ray Simpson from Oak Park  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 11:48 AM

Gunz - Both of the shooters you use to prove a point were not legally allowed to own, posses or use a gun. I understand that you dream of a world where guns do not or have never existed. Prove to me that before gunpowder and guns, men never did harm to each other. Different time different way of doing harm - it's the nature of the beast. Why don't you pick a fight you have a chance of winning. This one is stacked against you. Why don't you aim your effort at the courts and legal system who allow bad people to get away with illegal armed violence. If you would take that one on I would join your effort as would most of the people who argue with you here.

eZachLeeWright from Memphis  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 11:44 AM

To Gunz Kill: I commented below. Self defense is a civil right (so says the Supreme Court)and, yes, I have had a close relative killed by a gun. My brother in law was a doctor who was killed in '98 by a mental patient he had helped. That said, you are not giving credit for the good that has benefited us because of the second amendment. We have never had a coup used to take over our government because the people would revolt and have the means to. You expect such freedom at no cost??

GUNZ KILL  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 11:20 AM

Ask Officer Clifton Lewis' or Rep Gabbie Gifford's family's about guns.

Alan from Forest Park  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 11:12 AM

To Gunz: to answer your question, I have known 2 people killed by firearms, both self inflicted. That being said I still support the RIGHT of the people to keep and bear arms. And I will use my firearms to protect yours and Ken Trainors RIGHT to say the the things you do even if I disagree with you.

lmao@idiots  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 11:07 AM

Once again all the carpet baggers flood the comments to prove that Oak Parkers are not in favor of guns and the nuts that love them. You guys aren't too bright, are you?

GUNZ KILL  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 10:56 AM

How many of you posters that are in favor of guns have had someone you know by blood or friendship killed by a gun???

Jack Burton  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 10:51 AM

I completely agree with Mr. Trainor. Guns owners are disrespectful of authority. A failure to rely on authorities is an invariable sign of improper and overly independent attitudes. The mere fact that they gather together to talk about guns at gun shops, gun shows, shooting ranges, and on the internet means that they have some plot going against us normal people. A gun owner has no right to associate with another gun owner. Therefore, to help ensure our right to happiness and safety we must ban and seize all guns from private hands, and forbid NRA-based criticism towards people who are only trying to help. Searching the homes of all NRA members for any guns and pro-gun literature will go a long way towards reducing crime. Common sense requires only uniformed soldiers, police, and other agents of the state have access to firearms, and think of all the money we can save by just taking away the guns from private owners and giving them to the military and police. No person should be able to challenge this by writing to Congress or the President. If they do they should be forced in court to admit to it and then fined a hundred million dollars for each time. Subjecting them to torture will probably change their minds. Making it mandatory that church ministers preach against guns or else they can't get licensed will certainly force the church folk onto our side. People who don't like all this prove they are on the side of the killers with the guns and should be put in jail along side all the gangbangers and other gun nuts. Letting them sit in jail for a few years before they are charged will give the government plenty of time to find something wrong in their lives. Anything they say, write, or express should be held against them to prove their guilt. We should bring all of them here to Chicago to be tried by Mayor Daly as judge.

JKDIV  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 10:50 AM

E. Zach has the right analogy. The Constitution doesn't take a right because it makes another citizen uncomfortable. I does the opposite by protecting the rights of the unpopular. We all know what's going to happen when the left wing G8 protestors come to Chicago, but despite the predictable mayhem, it must be allowed. On another note, despite the fact that gun sales & ownership are at an all-time high, gun crime is declining.

Ryan from Oak Park  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 10:32 AM

Ken, you have got to be one of the most narrow-minded, anti-freedom, and Constitution-hating people I've ever read. Just because YOU don't like something personally, you think everyone who likes it should grovel and submit to freedom-sapping, ridiculous regulations that you've just made up.

Paddy Bauler  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 10:30 AM

Yeah, at the meeting we'll have a bonfire fueled by copies of that pesky little document, THE CONSTITUTION of THE UNITED STATES. Elitist hoplophobes like yourself are what scares me, with your naziesque treatment of issues you disagree with. It's the violent criminals that need to be dealt with. Not laws that only law-abiding citizens obey anyway.

Long live our Constitution from Oak Park  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 10:00 AM

You are too chicken pooh to show up to the meeting. Soon you will see the writing on the wall Mr. Trainor. Guns are here to stay. When they disappear so does your voice to spout the idiocy of this article.

Stew Naaden from Oak Grove, MN  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 9:17 AM

Funny how an ad at top of the page is for Gander gun training. Don't like guns, how about the 15 yr old coming out of the shower in Texas yesterday? What would her outcome have been without Dad's gun? I'll join your militia and train on the hottest AND coldest days but I get to open carry every other day too. See, I train all the time to protect my family. I take it very seriously because it is a matter of life and death. Good Luck with counting on the police when you are in a jam.

Ray Simpson from oak park  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 8:46 AM

Ken, you, once again, started a dialog that will give voice to several like minded, closed minded hand wringers. I am sure Gunz and a couple others will chime in to support your holier-than-thou position and several dozen of us will try to explain the world as it is, rather than your predictable narrow minded view. If you have any sense of fairness, you could join me this summer for a drive down to Kankakee to the Illinois State Rifle Range and you could meet the shooters you 'hate' without knowing. This group of responsible citizens have spent thousands of dollars on their gear and equipment and years honing their skills. I will bet that you will come away admitting that there isn't a single shooter to dislike. You will probably still group them in with 'gang bangers and thugs' You have tilted this windmill several times and prompted heated conversation that winds up making you look like the village idiot. Einstein's definition of insanity is trying the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome. Your opinion is wrong again!

Ray Lynch  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 8:40 AM

Dear Ken, The fact that you're unwilling to even attend the meeting on the 24th speaks volumes about you. You're willing to spout off here in this forum, but unwilling to face those so-called "gun-slingers" you like to demonize in your article. You are a hypocrite in the truest sense of the word, and you have absolutely no clue about those of us that carry. Perhaps if you actually met some of us and talked to us, you might realize we're not the bad guys you fear.

Patrick Tyrrell  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 6:57 AM

Hi Ken, The only "extremist interpretation" I see seems to be your view of gun owners.

E. Zach Lee-Wright from Memphis  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 6:52 AM

I live in Tennessee. In the 1950's and '60s we had groups like the one Ken mentions down here in the South. They were called Citizens Committees. They set out to make the towns safer by denying people their rights. They typically were run by Democrats. I see not much has changed in the past 50 years.

Jarious Headman from Peoria  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 5:03 AM

Ken is bucking for the hall of fame article in the Enquirer we see. Funny how in those towns that illegally tried to initaite gun control, things like the OK Corral still happened, proving the failure of gun control even back in the old, not so wild west. The Ken ALWAYS fails to show the people who carry concealed legally are such a threat. Yet Ken is afraid of the law abiding, while he cant even identify the bad guys doing so. Adults arent usually afraid of the mythical boogeyman, Ken is!

Tom from Oak Park  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 2:15 AM

You have the balls to wright this article but not the balls to come to this forum on the 24 that tells me everything I need to know about you Ken Trainor. I'm going to contact the owner of this new gun store and show them this article If I'm reading your comments correctly your saying this lawful business and local gang members are cohorts together. I think your treading a dangerous line with your comments.

Mares  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 1:21 AM

On and on Ken writes. Each word, each sentence, each paragraph, each column more useless then the next.

Tom from Oak Park  

Posted: January 18th, 2012 12:55 AM

I'm glad you can speak for everyone in Oak Park Ken Trainor, you see the thing is in this country you don't punish law abiding citizens for thing that criminals do it's nice that you consider the two the same. Maybe we can eliminate free speech as well so we don't have to read anymore of your garbage just because I don't like it. Get a life Trainor so you can stay out of mine you TOOL!!!!!!

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